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Molly_Delaney

Advice please, Ibuki but cruisers in general

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Replay file: 20200712_143758_PJSC012-Ibuki-1944_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

 

I feel that I could have played better.

Thoughts, suggestions, sarcastic remarks?

 

Youtube video for those who don't want to download a replay;  (4k HDR)

 

Specifically, did I stay too long or abandon the position too soon?

I feel if I was better we could have won........

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17 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Specifically, did I stay too long or abandon the position too soon?

 

- At about 1:20 you could have slowed down. Let your DD (the Z) get ahead a litte, so he will spot something first. Else you will be spotted before you see something (exactly that happened btw)

- Turning into the island then guarentees, that you will not make it out of there, pretty much. You could/should have turned out earlier and use the outside on 1/2 line to kite the enemys.

- Since you were cought at the island: dont reverse becuase you opened up a LoF for the enemys in the back

- Also: dont switch target. Your Z on the outside did everything right. He smoked and hydroed the enemy DD. All firepower on the DD (and use HE). Once the DD one the 1 line would have been dead - there would have been nothing to spot you anymore. You could have reversed, turned, and made it out of there.

 

Thats about the most important. You played rather like an US-Cruiser there, not like an IJN cruiser ^^.

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Thats not a playstyle you wanna do with IJN Cruisers :Smile_Default:

 

- Standard ammo is HE. AP is situational, basicly against Cruisers only (shortrange against CAs, midrange against CLs). Could have tried AP against Roon, but its probably a gamble if you get citadels or not. But can always try.

- Always focus the DD first. You turn away from him for no reason.

- Dont be so greedy that you beach, rather turn away.

- Turning in when you were full broadside to the Georgia was also not the right move. You want to be kiting, thats where Ibuki is good at. And for that, you need room to maneuver. Going outside on the flank is not a bad idea, but since you have RPF, you should take into consideration, that you will get spotted. And your DD was moving there aswell, so he can spot for you. Dont overcommit for no reason.

- Dont bowtank with Ibuki. Your firepower is bad unless you use all your guns. Infact, most Cruisers cant bowtank anyway. Germans/US CAs/couple of Russians can do it against some BBs (well, something like Moskva can do it against all BBs). And T8-9 Cruisers vs some small caliber T6-7 BBs.

- Lobbing shells over the island is more for US Cruisers. You are way too easy to hit and can only use 40% of your firepower.

- You need to use all your guns against the Roon, otherwise he will always win the DPM race. And pushing is always hard for the Roon, with 66% firepower in the back, so he has to show some side guaranteed, which makes it easier to hit.

 

So yes, you kinda stayed in that position too long, but also that position was bad for you in the first place

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Do not play Ibuki like an US CL. Ibuki wants to be moved and not sneak around islands with 1/4 speed where you cannot use your guns to full effect and cannot evade enemy fire.

 

  • load HE, especially vs DD, 3 salvos AP vs DD make a bad opening
  • do not beach, it makes you a sitting duck
  • when you shoot a DD, stay on the DD, especially when it is so close
  • get away from islands, they limit your movement and firepower
  • work on your aim, aiming at a ship that sails away from you makes you hit behind the ship, aiming HE at BB side armor gives you non-penetrations
  • do not tank for your BB, making yourself the only detected target for 4 enemies reduces your survival time
  • be aware of the map, you were unangled vs the Sojuz in the end
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Open water and stick with HE, with all guns able to fire,  check.

 

Anything else?

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8 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Open water and stick with HE, with all guns able to fire,  check.

 

Anything else?

Ammo depends on target. You can shoot AP at broadside cruisers.

 

And you should use islands to limit the number of enemy ships that can shoot at you.

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Thats not a playstyle you wanna do with IJN Cruisers :Smile_Default:

 

- Standard ammo is HE. AP is situational, basicly against Cruisers only (shortrange against CAs, midrange against CLs). Could have tried AP against Roon, but its probably a gamble if you get citadels or not. But can always try.

- Always focus the DD first. You turn away from him for no reason.

- Dont be so greedy that you beach, rather turn away.

- Turning in when you were full broadside to the Georgia was also not the right move. You want to be kiting, thats where Ibuki is good at. And for that, you need room to maneuver. Going outside on the flank is not a bad idea, but since you have RPF, you should take into consideration, that you will get spotted. And your DD was moving there aswell, so he can spot for you. Dont overcommit for no reason.

- Dont bowtank with Ibuki. Your firepower is bad unless you use all your guns. Infact, most Cruisers cant bowtank anyway. Germans/US CAs/couple of Russians can do it against some BBs (well, something like Moskva can do it against all BBs). And T8-9 Cruisers vs some small caliber T6-7 BBs.

- Lobbing shells over the island is more for US Cruisers. You are way too easy to hit and can only use 40% of your firepower.

- You need to use all your guns against the Roon, otherwise he will always win the DPM race. And pushing is always hard for the Roon, with 66% firepower in the back, so he has to show some side guaranteed, which makes it easier to hit.

 

So yes, you kinda stayed in that position too long, but also that position was bad for you in the first place

Had to downvote you here despite it being good advice for not recognising my post was just humour and erm... other completely valid reasons :Smile-_tongue: 

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If you playing open water cruiser like IJN line then stick to open water not island hugging and after fire check if bbs fire at you:

 

If they do, slow throttle and turn away

 

If they dont, continue shooting and moving and go back to check if bbs are firing at you

 

Repeat this until bbs are dead, then move up with team to engage cruisers

 

Make sure to hit any dds hard if they get spotted

 

Also shoot HE against everything except cls broadsiding you at 8km or less

 

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1 hour ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Open water and stick with HE, with all guns able to fire,  check.

 

Anything else?

Ibuki can make use of (flatter) islands just fine, so its not 0 or 1 on open water. And on open water, you start firing when you're in position for kiting, not before you carry out turn of doom.

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46 minutes ago, Eternus_Damnatio said:

Had to downvote you here despite it being good advice for not recognising my post was just humour and erm... other completely valid reasons :Smile-_tongue: 

 

I dont think its nice trolling people who are asking for advice...

Enough other places to do that here :cap_yes:

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Dont really know as I FXP:d Ibuki and went for Zaö but I have played a lot of Zaö and it is the same playstyle

Too aggressive from the start, should have stayed farther back until u knew where enemy ships were

AP against DD ?

 

Use concealment to your advantage and go dark now and again, when they aint looking at u burn them again

Kite and burn them! Use rudder shift module..

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Also don;t forget to drop those torps whilst you're kiting away and being pursued. The rear firing angles on the torps will let you get them off between enemy salvos and without showing too much side. Don't worry too much about perfect aim, they're more about possibly catching the enemy or if nothing else detering them a bit, but they do hit hard, so just one hit will severely wound a bb that's probably already damage controlled a fire or 2.

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I dont think its nice trolling people who are asking for advice...

Enough other places to do that here :cap_yes:

Thanks, but I knew he was trying for funny.....

 

And I did include sarcastic comments in my request..(I know this forum....:cap_cool:)

 

 

And THANKS TO ALL.....

 

:cap_popcorn:

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kite away and let them run onto your torps, you haven't got the bow armour to tank BBs.....i'm surprised the Georgia didn't [edited] slap you to be honest

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I dont think its nice trolling people who are asking for advice...

Enough other places to do that here :cap_yes:

Its not trolling its just messing around if your SoH is deffective I can suggest some nice drinks that can help with that lol

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Free XP Ibuki and don´t look back. Switch to Soviet cruisers they can do everything Ibuki ever hoped.

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@Molly_Delaney maybe some of it already has been said but:

 

  The ibuki isnt an offensive ship, as shown by her gun and torp lay out. Try to be on the flank that has to defend and preferably kite. You should reposition as soon as it is clear that the bulk of the enemies forces are pushing on the other side and your team is abandoning that flank.

 

- Try to not be the frontline ship in the ibuki. Be patient. Let your DDs scout for you, even if they are slow to do so. The worst thing that can happen to you at the start is that you get spotted, need to turn out, *blap*, dead.

 

- Maybe it can be beneficial to take incoming fire alert. I use it on my Worcester for kiting and its extremely valuable to have for open water cruisers. With IFA equiped you just slam the break and rudder whenever an enemy BB/heavy cruiser fires at you and 99/100 times their salvo will miss.

 

- Hitting things at 20km away with ibuki shells is hard. Try to focus closer targets for higher accuracy and dmg output, unless you need to finish a kill.

 

- Think of the game as risk-reward. You took a lot of risk for meagre rewards: You were in no position to kill off an enemy target and there were at least four enemies for who you were the closest "juiciest" target. In this case its better to just hold your fire until youre in a favorable position. 

You aim to reap rewards (dmg) for low risk (enemies are shooting at somebody else and are spotted).

 

- When turning out, never turn out while spotted, unless its a do or die situation. Wait to get unspotted and then one or two seconds (maybe a bb held his shot, waiting for you to turn). Tip: When you need to turn out and you know BBs are aiming at you, stop while turning out. This will lead to them overestimating your speed and their salvos will land in front of you. Once their salvos have missed you can speed up again and finish your turn. This feels really counter intuitive because it will make you sit flat broadside stationary towards the enemy but trust me on this one: BBs will ALWAYS miss that shot. Even super unicums. Simply because 99,99% of the players dont stop while turning.

 

- When dodging in the open, play with your throttle more. You dont have to go 100% speed or 0%. The most difficult to hit target is a ship that moves at irregular speeds. This means that sometimes it can even pay off to go reverse, wait for someone to shoot, speed up to 1/4, wait for them to shoot, stop, reverse, etc. etc. etc.This takes practice ofcourse but once you master the mindgame that comes with it, you truly reap the benefits. Why? Because dodging like this doesnt increase the distance to your target they it does when you are always going 100% speed. This means that you dmg output remains roughly the same and you can keep spamming away. 

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@Molly_Delaney

 

1 - you started way to close from your dd , you denied yourself any spot advantage, 

 

2 - You zigged instead of zagged, you assumed a defensive position with the wrong ship to do that, I would retreat for the other side, you turned right i would turned left

 

3 - you had no support whatsoever, you and that dd were over extended., even if you were in a Des Moines or a Balti the outcome would be the same, no support

 

4 - when you tried to run you should attempted to go dark if given the chance (i don't know the values of IBUKI concealment) and re joined what was left of your flank, assuming a support role spamming HE, be one more among others, or go to those islands  near your spawn and do a last stand., but instead you  kept  firing your guns and you were the nearest to the reds and got focused.

 

I think, no.

not with that ship nor with how your flank deployed.

You shouldn't be there, in the first place.

But it's way easier to point out what i think what  was your mistakes .

But there you go, this 4 points it's what i would do or try to do.

 

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4 minutes ago, TohtoriP said:

Free XP Ibuki and don´t look back. Switch to Soviet cruisers they can do everything Ibuki ever hoped.

there's no real or major difference between Ibuki and Donskoy.

 

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4 hours ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Replay file: 20200712_143758_PJSC012-Ibuki-1944_16_OC_bees_to_honey.wowsreplay

 

I feel that I could have played better.

Thoughts, suggestions, sarcastic remarks?

 

Youtube video for those who don't want to download a replay;  (4k HDR)

 

Specifically, did I stay too long or abandon the position too soon?

I feel if I was better we could have won........

Ibuki gameplay is like the rest of the ijn cruisers. The best way to say it is "a courageous coward" you can't go toe to toe with anything else really because of your low hp pool and weak armor BUT you have excellent concealment (train your CPT and equip ship accordingly) and a devastating HE alpha. 

Use your range to harass cruisers and BB's and once they focus you stop firing and "go away". It may be hard to sit there for 20 sec while everybody is shooting you but its ok, you can focus on dodging shots.

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5 hours ago, Molly_Delaney said:

I feel that I could have played better.

Thoughts, suggestions, sarcastic remarks?

 

Specifically, did I stay too long or abandon the position too soon?

I feel if I was better we could have won........

 

Okay, let's start. Hotspot map, spawn north, 3-line. You are in an Ibuki. It an all-T9-battle.

Ibuki is a cruiser with trolish but rather weak armor, good range and dispersion, good maneuverablity. That in comparison to other cruisers dictates how to play it (and all the other ships in the IJN-CA-line). You are a shapely elf archer, going up against 600 pound-trolls, if you get the picture. You are not into arm westling.

 

Threat assessment:

- one radar cruiser - Alaska - needs to go early to give DDs freedom of movement

- noteworthy DDs: Paolo Emilio (test ship, capable player), Benham, lots of torps if in the area

- triple Georgia: If they are a group, push hard and your BBs do not hold the line, they are too fast for you to retreat, so early spotting is important. You want a cautious approach and not overextend.

 

In Ibuki on this map and this spawn, going 1-2- line is the best option. You can kite that area, spam fires on bigger ships that fell for the illusion of safety in open waters. If it's a somination map Maybe in the beginning you want to stay behind the cap first to support your DD if he spots and enemy DD in the cap zone. Now this is a standard battle, so no caps. DDs tend to go 1-2-line themseves to spot for their team or catch some overconfident BB. You DD is going 1-2-line. The first priority in the beginning is always to win the DD-fights. The DDs are highlighting each other and whoever brings more friends survives. So you as a cruiser with good disperion and high alpha damage want to be there 4km behind your DD.

 

So you start moving in very deep. Going into D-line you are overextending. The BBs are far behind you. Your DD is not spotted. As soon as you get spotted now, you will be the only possible target and every ship will shoot you. They won't even need to communicate to focus you down. Also you start with AP-shells. They are good if you can reasonably expect your first target to be a broadside cruiser. Maybe in clan battles but certainly not in randoms with DDs. You need HE. This mistake will show later.

 

Arguably you are popping hydro too early. You are still full speed, lots of places to go to not hit torpedos and they are italian torps, they are very slow and will take a while. But you got RPF on your Ibuki. So the second you saw it was pointing wide, you should have pinged that area on the map to alert your DD that a DD is there.

Now you are going behind the volcano. First, that is a DesMo or Moskva move. They go there to radar the cap, but this is a standard battle, no cap. Is it worth commiting to this position? You can already see on the map, only one BB is following you. Your team is not strong on this side, the other BB seems afk or camping way back. There is nothing that could hold the enemy team back, if they want to push hard. So camoing behind the volcano is dangerous, cause you can hardly disengage and run, if the enemy pushes around the island. Radar cruisers can bow-tank and prolong their destruction. Your Ibuki can't. For Ibuki, being so close to the enemy is brutally overextending. If you have to nose-in, you only got your front guns, low dpm and 25mm bow armor. You are a sitting duck. You get into a position where you are perma-spotted by a Paolo Emilio moving up the 1-line. Now you are trapped behind the volcano. You are beaching which you shouldn't. You gotta expect DD-torps coming your way, you need to stay mobile.

 

It gets busy now, too many things to think of. You get two shots at the Paolo Emilio. The first ones miss since you see it smoking up and your brain tells you to account for the DD to slow down. But it's an Emilio with italian smoke, it can go full speed. Then it even overshoots his own smoke and you get a second chance. But you still got AP loaded, mostly overpens. Had you started with HE, you now would have got massive damage on him, set a fire, hit his engine or rudder. In this duel of the DDs your focus must be on the DD. But the Paolo gets unspotted, so you immediately turn your guns to the BBs. Not a good idea, Your Z-46 obviously is going in for the kill, he needs your support. But it all got so busy for you so you didn't notice you were reversing more and more into the open. Doing that you imo commit a very dangerous mistake. You reverse turning your ship broadside to Georgia and Soyuz in 1-2-line around 14km away, while being perma-spotted. This could already be it. The island is low enough to eat lots of citadel hits. And while you are now stressed out trying to get back in cover, your Z-46 is alone against a Paolo Emilio. He is a good player, so he wins, but that is luck. If you were in a more relaxed situation and not under direct threat, you could have helped him and made sure that Paolo Emilio goes down. Also, why do you not have PT on your ship? Obviously you did not notice the dangerous situation you were getting into. You were lacking awareness. Happens to the best, but that is exactly what the PT-indicator is for.

 

Ibuki shell arcs are too flat to shoot effectively behind islands. The better choice would have been to turn your ship out into a kiting position, then slow down or reverse south until the enemies are spotted and then kite while focussing the Paolo Emilio. 

Instead now you are trapped behind the volcano and in hydro range. You do the right thing, reversing behind the island. Then the hydro is off. The Paolo Emilio was killed by your DD, so this is your one chance to finally get out undetected and kite away. instead 14min left you push around the volcano in the 2-line into 2BBs and 2 cruisers, being perma-spotted and nose-in. this is a suicide move. You can't bow-tank a Soyuz with 25mm-Ibuki at 13km, ofc he will citadel you.

In your defense, it's not all your fault. Your BBs are terribly passive. That FdG is hiding behind the volcano, not drawing any attention to his tanky ship, what german BBs are supposed to do. Your Iowa is way too far back in the B-line, to be useful. You lack the pushing power on your flank. Your team is not superior on the flank and not in position to focus fire. Your team does not at all dictate the terms on this side, but you think you can make the enemy run in fright if your one squishy cruiser pushes them?

You earned yourself a sarcastic remark right there:

 

Han-Solo_vs_troopers.gif.5b8fda2e8297eee09de5857201244a50.gif

 

Now this has cost you, you are now 20% HP. You reverse back. It's already too late, the battle is practically decided. You are playing static, going back and forth behind the island trying to be covered by island while stealth firing. There you cannot support the DD that is spotted by the Benham. You have no shots. Your current play is depending on the spotting of your DD which is overextended and without support. Clearly you will not be able to endure this much longer. Your DD gets shot to bits. That is not a mistake, it is the consequence of past mistakes. The enemy now has too many ships left on this flank and your team has too few.

RPF indicates the Benham going 1-line. You are perma spotted again, 10 min to go. You finally realize it's time to get out or get torped. Too many torps are possibly on the way. You get out. Right decision. An option would be blind torping into the general direction of the DD, and maybe getting a lucky hit. You got RPF on this ship, you should use it.

Then you get killed by the Soyuz on the 4-line. At that time your team was already decimated and you are an attractive target to farm.

 

So what might have worked better?

Probably staying in the 1-2-line. Drawing attention, getting shot at while aggressively maneuvering to avoid the incoming fire. You would have been in a position to shoot the Paolo Emilio, while being further away from the enemy BBs. You would have had the option to go dark when you need to. After the Paolo was dead, you could have shot the two Roons at range to kill their hydros. That in return would have given your DD the chance to torp the BBs without the torps being spotted from the moon. It's a lot of speculation. But staying at range in the Ibuki is generally the better way. You set fires. You try to observe which targets eat torpedos, so you follow with fires if they use DCP. You wear them down slowly. With your BBs so passive, I think it would not have changed the outcome. Maybe if you had worn them down, your BB-players would get greedy and finally move in a bit. But generally Ibuki is best at range and there was no need to get as close.

 

Finally, why do you need to overextend in so many ways?

You rush up the tiers like it's a contest. There is no need to force yourself into this. In T2 the struggle began, your ship got destroyed twice as often as you killed an enemy ship, the damage was low. If difficulty level 1 is too hard, level 2 and above are not gonna make it easier. Like many things in life, you build up slowly and from the bottom. You should start at the low tiers and observe how your numbers are. If you win a lot, if you do a lot of damage, take a lot of caps, have a lot of impact on the game, that is the time to increase difficulty by going up one tier. The T10 ships are not better, not shinier or more powerful. It's an illusion, the enemies get better and you are worse off. Take it slow. Play low tiers. Observe your stats and go from there. Watch lots of tutorials. And always think what players are doing in these tutorials, how else you would do it and why they might do it the way they do.

 

It's a very positive thing that you posted this replay. It takes some courage and you deserve respect for that. It's the first step into a more conscious way to experience the game. If you stay on that road, you will enjoy that game a lot more, but only, if you are patient and humble.

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Vor 6 Stunden, HMS_Kilinowski sagte:

 It's the first step into a more conscious way to experience the game. 

You forgot:

Z4BRa2J.gif.3106dfb5783a5119ef4f9ce7cbd64026.gif

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