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Axl06

What line should I grind out?

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Hello! 
I have a small question for everybody. I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first? (I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good)

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My recommendation, though it may not be what you want to hear, would be to do the same - grind to T6 - in the other lines before looking to progress further up the tiers. Don't get me wrong, this is not a "don't play high tiers noob" thing it's actually a better way to enjoy the game overall, in my opinion. By going through multiple lines you get to learn the capabilities, the strengths and weaknesses, of the other ships you have been facing and will have plenty of time to gain experience at tiers that can be more forgiving for newer players.

 

This is how I approached the game and I'm glad I did.

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44 minutes ago, Axl06 said:

I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first?

You won't like this answer, but 'neither of them' (yet). If you'll permit me:

  • At time of writing, you have only 115 random battles under your belt (I'm assuming you aren't a reroll; if you are, ignore me); this isn't an "unworthy dog - begone!" thing, but rather an observation that there will most likely be a lot in the game you have yet to fully get a handle on, plus you're most likely a bit short on well developed captains too.
  • The game gets a lot harder when you get into the +2 MM bracket (as you'll have probably discovered already), and you'll be at less of a disadvantage if you venture up the tiers at a more considered pace, allowing your skills and captains to keep pace.
  • I would suggest playing several other ship types to Tier 5/6 before venturing higher in anything - you'll be a better player if you have a better understanding of how all the classes handle, what they're trying to do, and their various strengths and weaknesses.
  • I note that you've probably bought (unless they were rentals) several high tier premiums; this isn't terribly wise - don't worry though; most of us did it too - with a T8, say, you're going into the teeth of players with thousands of battles under their belt, and probably far superior captains than you've probably had a chance to acquire yet. I would suggest messing about in Coop with your high end premiums until your silver lines have caught up.
  • In terms on lines to explore, I might suggest the following: for DDs, US (the classic all-rounders, and they have okay AA, which helps with all the CVs around), followed by KM (again, decent all-rounders, and they get hydro from T5, plus you have Z-39 for use as a captain trainer); for cruisers: IJN (another classic starter line, plus your Atago gels well as a captain trainer), and maybe KM (the usual 'other' starter line is the US, but you have PE for use as a captain trainer later); BBs you already have a couple, but I would focus on the US first (the RN is prone to teaching bad habits, most notably a tendency to shoot too much HE); as to CVs, they are perhaps less essential, although understanding how they work will help get through the T4 CV plague - perhaps one or other of the US or IJN (RN are felt to be a bit weaker by many, and the KM are a bit weird, mainly due to the AP rockets).
  • If you haven't found it yet, the wiki is an essential resource (https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/World_of_Warships), plus I would look at some of iChase's more recent 'how to' videos on YouTube.

WOWS is (perhaps surprisingly) well laid out, if you follow a logical and measured tier progression, in terms of introducing you to different game elements in a 'one thing at a time' sort of way: guns first (T1), then torps, then planes, then hydro, then radar etc. To be effective, one has to learn a lot of stuff, and the best way to do that is to play as wide a range of different things as possible at lower tier. The other thing that is crucial is captains (well built ones too): when you get into the +2 MM bracket, you will be at a disadvantage if you don't have at least 10 pointers on your ships, mainly because of the CE skill; this, incidentally, is why picking lines based on which premiums you have already isn't entirely stupid (although it's more sensible/usual to do it the other way around) - premiums allow you to develop relevant captains faster.

 

The key pain-point in all this is CVs; low tiers should be where newer players get to learn and T4 CVs present a bit of a problem in that there are lots of them and many ships they see (most especially, T3s) have essentially non-existent AA; my feeling here is to either accelerate your progression to T4/T5 when you start to acquire at least some AA defence (or do the same in Coop). As painful as it can be, it is worth trying to hone your anti-CV methodology at lower tiers (apart from a few seal-clubbers, most CV players aren't actually that good), as CVs only get more dangerous at higher tiers...

 

That's just a few pointers, so keep asking questions on here - there are usually plenty of helpful folk about.

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56 minutes ago, Axl06 said:

Hello! 
I have a small question for everybody. I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first?

As others have said this is a question only you can really answer. Get as much feeling for as many ships/lines as you can only then can you make an informed decision based on personal experience and whats best for YOU.

 

1 hour ago, Axl06 said:

 (I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good)

There not Bad.. But you need to have a solid understanding of the game to be successful at tier 8 and up, the game play is a lot harder and with respect you wont enjoy it at your current level. And tbh this is probably where a large percentage of the "there not very good" is coming from.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Axl06 said:

I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good

Just to echo what @SeaWolf7 said - they're a poor choice for a 'first' cruiser line, as they have weirdness (SAP rounds); I would suggest returning to them once you have mastered some more conventional cruisers.

 

As a DD main, I do treat the Italian cruisers with a lot of respect though; the aforementioned SAP rounds will shred DDs in short order if you give them a chance.

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I don't think you should necessarily play everything to T6 to know what you like, I do recommend playing with different stuff to get a feel for what you like. I didn't, I got my top tier Russian DD, German CA and American BB as fast as possible - With premium, camos and signals. I love my Russian DD, I'm quite happy with my German CA's and frankly hate American BBs, regret every moment of going through that line. The first 6 tiers of American BBs are painfully slow, the top tier ones you are supposed to snipe with but they can't overmatch anything so I don't know what they're even for, they are good at deleting light cruisers but every BB can do that. Had I tried out stuff before I would have gotten a brawler BB, GK maybe. Or any of the newer BB lines that can overmatch 30mm and do its job consistently, punish cruisers.

I would suggest at least playing around enough to know what type of playstyle you like for each ship class and then decide, you don't want to be 3/4 down the UK CL line and find out you love starting fires, or be 3/4 down the Russian DD line after finding out you love concealment and torpedoes. Grinding everything to T6 I think is excessive just to get a feel for what you like.

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2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Grinding everything to T6 I think is excessive just to get a feel for what you like.

(emphasis added)

 

This is very true; FWIW my feeling is that two (maybe three) well-chosen lines from each main class isn't bad quantity before going higher.

 

There are a few down-sides to going excessively diverse: if you're playing lots of different things all at once, it takes longer (in terms of hours of play) to get decent captains together; also, you tend to do better if you play multiple battles in the same thing as you tend to get more of a feel for whatever that thing is.

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[NAPOL]
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From what everyone has said I’ve decided to put the Italian line on hold (to be frank I didn’t need to grind that much as I used some free xp) and go with the American BB line has it seems to be very versatile. From my (limited) experience I’ve realized that the RN play style is a bit boring (HE spamming from the back of the map). And I like ships that are good (but not great) at everything.

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Petropavlovsk.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Axl06 said:

I like ships that are good (but not great) at everything.

German cruisers are true jack of all trades cruisers, may be worth a look.

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4 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

grind to T6 - in the other lines before looking to progress further up the tiers

Maybe not that literally but do check out these sources:

 

The wargaming wiki (very useful for stats of everything)

 

Youtube (CCs like Flamu, Flambass, Ichase, Notser provide very nice info on different ships and tech trees, and maybe you would want to watch some videos to get an iidea of which ship lines is the best, careful selection is good because youll have fun later on without worrying about grinding the wrong line.

 

Apart from those check the wows page and devblog once in a while so that you get the idea of the upcoming ships and events and the metas, so that you can plan out what lines you want to grind and not go for a line that will be nerfed.

 

Right now I would say the KM cruiser are pretty good all rounders, all Russians are pretty good, American cruisers are ok, and american and jap bbs teach you how to play bb but can be punishing, cvs are pretty strong rn so aa isnt that useful anymore, but you might still want to pick a line with good aa.

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I've checked your stats. You've horrible damage numbers. I suggest you to play tier 5, and perhaps some tier 6 ships only, before you improve. You should make 50k damage with a BB, as a beginner, and 30-40k with a cruisers. You should learn basic things, like angling your ship against enemy ship, and giving a proper lead for shoots. It takes more than a hundred random games.

 

As an analogy for progression in the game:

Witth 500 random battles, you're the 14 year old who starts to understand the world.

With 1000 games, you're the 18 year old, who are considered an adoult but still has to see the world.

With 2000 games, you're the 25 year old, who feels more confident.

With 5000 games, you're the 30 something, who may or may not be an expert, but still can learn new things.

With 10000 games, you're the 45 year old expert.

 

Also, as others suggested, play BBs, CAs and DDs, too, to learn their mindset. Understanding DDs, for instance, will improve your BB play, as you'll know what to expect.

 

You have Atago and  Z39, which are very good ships, but require more experience to make them work. They're not beginner friendly. I suggest you to get some T5-T6 coal ships from the armory. October Revolution is a fine T5 BB and teaches you much about not showing your broadside. Aigle is a fine DD, teaches you smoke firing and basic DD operations, just have expert marksman and concealment expert captain skills for her. Don't spend more money on high tier premiums, before gaining much more experience. Also, getting the T6 Arizona with the 25% coupon from the armory would have been a fine first premium for money.

 

If you play tier7 and tier8 games before learning more about the game, you'll make the game less fun for your team mates, and yourself. The basics should be learnt around T5 (normally even before), where most of the players are still beginners, with some seal clubbers and new line grinders mixed in.

 

As for your original question:

1. grind the US BB line. Yes, they are slow, but sturdy, good to learn the basics of BB gameplay.

2. grind the UK heavy cruiser line. They are more forgiving vs mistakes because of the heal, but will teach you to angle against broadside hits.

3. grind the UK DD line. They have strong guns and hydro, giving you an edge over enemy DDs. They have short smokes that teaches you to not sit in your smoke till you get torped, which is a bad habit that all DD players do when learning the game.

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[NAPOL]
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My terrible stats come from playing the Prince Eugen as a brawler which if you’re a good player MIGHT work, but since I’m still learning the basics you quickly die with 20k damage (yesterday I tried to tank 3 battleships in a T10 game). But thanks for all the advice! Also I actually only ever paid for one of my premiums (the rest were given to me i containers and doubloons).

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16 hours ago, Axl06 said:

Hello! 
I have a small question for everybody. I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first? (I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good)

I suggest you grind ALL lines until you unlock T7 in them, then take the ones you like best further, of the two suggested I would go US you will learn more about BB play with them

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18 hours ago, Axl06 said:

Hello! 
I have a small question for everybody. I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first? (I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good)

Choosing between US and British BB:s I´d go with US line

However French, German, Japanese and Russian are all good too

 

(I would say that the British line is the worst of the lot with its lacklustre AP performance) 

 

Play around mid tier a bit and try other lines too before venturing up in tiers beyond tier 7 coz u are gonna get smacked silly when u get ur first tier 8 BB into a tier 10 game

Wait until you have a recent winrate of around 50% before the next tier

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18 hours ago, Axl06 said:

Hello! 
I have a small question for everybody. I have come to T6 in both the British and American BB lines, Which one should I grind out first? (I am also at T7 with the Italian line but I stopped grinding after I heard that they weren’t very good)

Now I am not a bb main, but I have t8 usbb and t7 rn. The main difference from my experience and from what I hear is that RN bbs are fun until t8 and t9. The Kgv is very good! The monarch and Lion not so much and the conq still very good! Us line is hard until t8 and the last 3 are very good. I like NC although I sadly suck in bbs over all. 

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2 hours ago, Axl06 said:

My terrible stats come from playing the Prince Eugen as a brawler which if you’re a good player MIGHT work, but since I’m still learning the basics you quickly die with 20k damage (yesterday I tried to tank 3 battleships in a T10 game). But thanks for all the advice! Also I actually only ever paid for one of my premiums (the rest were given to me i containers and doubloons. 

 

No, your poor stats dont come from a specific ship - they come from lacking experiance overall. You are underperforming in every ship. Stay away from T8, also stay away from T6. T6 BBs are actually not that easy to play. They are highly situational, depending on the matchmaker and the enemy ships you get. With those ships, if you want to do really well - you need a lot of knowledge about the armor scemes of ships from a range of T5 to T8.

 

I would recommend you to play T4/T5 but with CVs and the matchmaker there beeing what it is - I have no idea on how to properaly learn the game as a new player at this point. You´d have to ask Wargaming.

 

Go to youtube / twitch, look out for a streamer / uploader who doesnt annoy you and watch that for a couple of hundred hours. Imo the best way to learn something right now. I might sound cynical, but I wouldnt want to be in the shoes of a new player in 2020. Ive also stopped advertising the game to people I know for a long time, since the first 2000-3000 games will be pure frustration, unless you are really talented.

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5 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

No, your poor stats dont come from a specific ship - they come from lacking experiance overall. You are underperforming in every ship. Stay away from T8, also stay away from T6. T6 BBs are actually not that easy to play. They are highly situational, depending on the matchmaker and the enemy ships you get. With those ships, if you want to do really well - you need a lot of knowledge about the armor scemes of ships from a range of T5 to T8.

 

I would recommend you to play T4/T5 but with CVs and the matchmaker there beeing what it is - I have no idea on how to properaly learn the game as a new player at this point. You´d have to ask Wargaming.

 

Go to youtube / twitch, look out for a streamer / uploader who doesnt annoy you and watch that for a couple of hundred hours. Imo the best way to learn something right now. I might sound cynical, but I wouldnt want to be in the shoes of a new player in 2020. Ive also stopped advertising the game to people I know for a long time, since the first 2000-3000 games will be pure frustration, unless you are really talented.

I will try to get a bit better by playing some more T5 ships, tbh my terrible stats come from (judge not) not giving targets any lead until recently. I also tend to tank in ships that aren’t meant for it (Atago, Prinz Eugen, Z-39 etc). But now that I’ve tried improve in lower tiers I (start) getting a bit better. I actually started playing in 2016 and have been playing on off since then, the reason why I underperform is because I never tried to improve (like the fact that I didn’t give my targets any lead.

But thanks for the pointers and advice!

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Have you turned on the Dynamic Crosshair? That's a real help in judging the amount of lead you need to give a ship.

 

Don't discount Co-op and Operations as practice modes. The bots in operations are reasonably good, they don't just sail in straight lines and they can punish you for mistakes. And you can do those at Tier VI, where there's plenty of good ships in tech tree lines to play - and you won't face enemy CVs, either. 

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2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

I would recommend you to play T4/T5 but with CVs and the matchmaker there beeing what it is - I have no idea on how to properaly learn the game as a new player at this point. You´d have to ask Wargaming.

 

Go to youtube / twitch, look out for a streamer / uploader who doesnt annoy you and watch that for a couple of hundred hours. Imo the best way to learn something right now. I might sound cynical, but I wouldnt want to be in the shoes of a new player in 2020. Ive also stopped advertising the game to people I know for a long time, since the first 2000-3000 games will be pure frustration, unless you are really talented.

I would suggest to get to tier 5 as soon as you can and learn the game there. I've had a tier4 match today, as I started my Des Moines grind. It felt like WG unleashed the hell there. I'm a seasoned carrier player and have no issues playing a DD or any other ship in CV games, at least ain T5+ games. At T4 you have no AA in a double carrier match. Also there were a couple of bots to fill up the ranks, as it was around 8am. I was able to dodge the CV attacks with minimal damage up till the endgame, but not so the other players having a few hundred games under their belts. They cannot keep up even against the average CV players who lurked there. The endgame was 2CV vs 2CV, except that I was also there, the sealclubber by happestance. I killed one CV, and heavily damaged the other, but could not withstand the attacks from two squadrons at the same time. I was killed and it was a one CV vs one CV endgame.

 

This basically kills the game below tier5, and directly hurts WG's revenue by chasing new players away. The situation is not managed because the beginners don't come here to complain on the forums, and the veterans don't play much below T5.

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49 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

It felt like WG unleashed the hell there.

 

Yup been going on for quite a while. I really dont understand the thinking of WG, why they let this go on.

 

49 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Also there were a couple of bots to fill up the ranks, as it was around 8am. I was able to dodge the CV attacks with minimal damage up till the endgame, but not so the other players having a few hundred games under their belts. They cannot keep up even against the average CV players who lurked there.

 

Exactly. They have neither the experiance nor the captain skills to survive in such an environment. And the only thing new players learn, is, that CVs can do whatever they want.

 

50 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

This basically kills the game below tier5, and directly hurts WG's revenue by chasing new players away. The situation is not managed because the beginners don't come here to complain on the forums, and the veterans don't play much below T5.

 

Again right on the money, its how I feel and how I see the game aswell. But apperently, we are wrong, because some spreadsheet somewhere must tell WG that everything is fine. I used to play the occasional low tier game, just because I like the ships and some diversity. But these games are utter chaos now, no fun, completly out of balance.

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4 hours ago, Axl06 said:

I also tend to tank in ships that aren’t meant for it (Atago, Prinz Eugen, Z-39 etc).

 

Many people have a wrong understanding of tanking. You cant tank, because the enemy has the final say if he shoots a BB or the spotted DD closer to him.

If you are spotted in a DD = expect to be targeted

If you are close and or broadside in a Cruiser  = expect to be targeted

 

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2 hours ago, Ocsimano18 said:

This basically kills the game below tier5, and directly hurts WG's revenue by chasing new players away. The situation is not managed because the beginners don't come here to complain on the forums, and the veterans don't play much below T5.

Tier V CVs would help. Reduce Tier IVs to Hermes style weaponry - so only one torpedo per attack - and then move the Hosho style weapons up to Tier V CVs.

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