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BruceRKF

Share of real ships for each nation

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Maybe we can increase the Number of Real Ships with the Release of the Italien Battleships, German Battlecruisers, British Battlecruisers and Italien Destroyers.

There are many real Ships that would fit into the Game but are not in it.

 

And I should not Forget About the Subs. Those Ships are Real too. If we like the Playstyle is a different Topic.

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Whilst I deplore the presence of over powered paper ships, this is an arcade game and has distinct markets to satisfy. If we just used real ships, there would be a dearth of ships for many nations and the player base likes playing ships of their own nation. It would seem that the Russian developers have a rather overinflated opinion of what the Soviet Union was capable of producing in the way of BBs and CAs compared to the US Navy but we all get to play everything so as a game, this makes no difference. From a historical basis, it clearly will influence some minds into reimagining history, but many video games do this so War Gaming are no more guilty of that than others.

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6 minutes ago, triumphgt6 said:

Whilst I deplore the presence of over powered paper ships, this is an arcade game and has distinct markets to satisfy. If we just used real ships, there would be a dearth of ships for many nations and the player base likes playing ships of their own nation. It would seem that the Russian developers have a rather overinflated opinion of what the Soviet Union was capable of producing in the way of BBs and CAs compared to the US Navy but we all get to play everything so as a game, this makes no difference. From a historical basis, it clearly will influence some minds into reimagining history, but many video games do this so War Gaming are no more guilty of that than others.

I agree with what you said, but what I cannot understand is why not make the introduction of new ships more "balanced" between real and paper ships? What I mean is, instead of another Soviet cruiser line and more (paper) premiums, they could for example have prioritised Italian battleships or destroyers where there are quite a lot of non-paper ships to choose from and introduce the Soviet ships later. Right now, Italy has not even one third the number of ships compared to Russia/USSR.

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Since when "reality" is a balance factor ? =.=

If Italian BB end up to become a meh line, community will said : "It's balance, i understand, why WG choose to do that."

Or they will go to riot, because a paper ship line can't be "better" than a "reality" one ? 

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10 minutes ago, Furius_Marius said:

Do you have the list of ships to see which category is each one? Thank you!

I made an Excel table. Here you go.

ships-rate.xlsx

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Nice job!!!

 

Just 3 things I would change...

 

Ashitaka is and Amagi class ship. One of the original names before japan changed the names like Atago and Takao that were laid down but cancelled. I would not considered a paper ship.

Shikishima is also not really really paper. Yamato class but with 510mm. No. 111 was said to probably have this guns. And was laid down.  Some of that guns were build in Kure for testing. At least that's what they told me in Yamato museum.  So is similar to the in game  Gneisenau situation. I would say laid down.

The Kii is more disputed some Japanese sources says in was canceled when the keel was already started some not. So both option is fine. 

 

Zarya Svobody is the WG code name for Sovetskaya Rossiya so I would change this to laid down. 

 

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1 hour ago, BruceRKF said:

The large navies of the era having a high percentage of real ships is not surprising (USA, UK, Japan). Equally not suprisingly, Russia/USSR have by far the lowest number of real ships, while on the other hand having the second largest number of ships. Correct me if I am wrong, as I did not look this up, but as far as I know, USA, Japan, UK, Italy, France and Germany had larger navies. While I am not sold on Soviet bias when game balance is concerned (plenty of op/broken ships from other nations), there certainly seems to be a Soviet bias in ships selected to be put into the game.

Would love to read your opinions on the topic.

 

I just think, the game is not doing that great on their home server aka russian. Atleast that what numbers seem to indicate which ive seen aswell. So more russian ships might get russian people back into the game. However, ive also heard that a lot of russian players think, that their ships are bad...

To me, it doesnt really matter. If some people are happy by having a lot of "their own" ships in the game, so be it. As long as there is balance, it doesnt matter to me.

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1 hour ago, BruceRKF said:

I agree with what you said, but what I cannot understand is why not make the introduction of new ships more "balanced" between real and paper ships? What I mean is, instead of another Soviet cruiser line and more (paper) premiums, they could for example have prioritised Italian battleships or destroyers where there are quite a lot of non-paper ships to choose from and introduce the Soviet ships later. Right now, Italy has not even one third the number of ships compared to Russia/USSR.

I would guess that's because it is easier to make up stuff from sikrit dokuments than to ask Italian authorities for formerly classified documents, fit the real designs into the game without any mistakes and balance them at the same time while not offending those who care about a ship his grandfather / uncle etc. served on.

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There were plans and preliminary work done (not clear the degree since most of the data was destroyed) for another Yamato class ship. Also the twin body huge super heavy sub CV? that was found built after the war was real, although I need to search for the docu film.

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1 hour ago, doerhoff_damian said:

Maybe we can increase the Number of Real Ships with the Release of the Italien Battleships, German Battlecruisers, British Battlecruisers and Italien Destroyers.

There are many real Ships that would fit into the Game but are not in it.

 

And I should not Forget About the Subs. Those Ships are Real too. If we like the Playstyle is a different Topic.

 

One of my many cousins was a submarine skipper. :Smile_honoring:

 

8 minutes ago, Ze_Reckless said:

I would guess that's because it is easier to make up stuff from sikrit dokuments than to ask Italian authorities for formerly classified documents, fit the real designs into the game without any mistakes and balance them at the same time while not offending those who care about a ship his grandfather / uncle etc. served on.

 

Something tells me most of the Italian and perhaps other countries designs could already be found somewhere closer to home... such as the details of the Pugliese system ...:Smile_glasses:

 

I'm actually a bit surprised by how low the percentage is for German, Italian and French ships. Not at all surprised for the Japanese, American or British ships. I am not the least surprised by the low Soviet count though I would like to see a breakdown between Russian and Soviet ships... :Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, Furius_Marius said:

Nice job!!!

 

Just 3 things I would change...

 

Ashitaka is and Amagi class ship. One of the original names before japan changed the names like Atago and Takao that were laid down but cancelled. I would not considered a paper ship.

Shikishima is also not really really paper. Yamato class but with 510mm. No. 111 was said to probably have this guns. And was laid down.  Some of that guns were build in Kure for testing. At least that's what they told me in Yamato museum.  So is similar to the in game  Gneisenau situation. I would say laid down.

The Kii is more disputed some Japanese sources says in was canceled when the keel was already started some not. So both option is fine. 

 

Zarya Svobody is the WG code name for Sovetskaya Rossiya so I would change this to laid down. 

 

Good points, but as I said, I only used Wikipedia and for Yamato there is no indication whatsoever for 111 to be armed with 510 mm guns there. If you can point me to more reliable sources, I'd be willing to rework the table. For the Zarya Svobody it was obvious it was a Soyuz class ship and I thought they would have taken one of the other names of the ships, but was surprised when I couldn't find it, so assumed they took a hypothetical fifth ship or so. I guess you are probably right about the code name, so I can change that. As for Ashitaka, I overlooked that all four were laid down, thanks, gonna change that as well. In Kii's case, I initally though she was laid down from memory, but looked it up and couldn't find anything quickly. In that case, as well as Shikishima's I'd rather err on the side of caution ;)

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I don't think i can find any English source about the 510 mm guns... Last summer i was In Yamato museum in Kure. One of the guides of the museum said that 2 guns and one mount were build for testing and destroyed in 1945. The general consensus there is that they were going to be test it in the laid down Yamato hull 111. 

 

By the way... In tomorrows patch the Zarya Svobody will be renamed Sovetskaya Rossiya.

 

How it looks with the corrected numbers?? :cap_look:

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1 minute ago, Furius_Marius said:

I don't think i can find any English source about the 510 mm guns... Last summer i was In Yamato museum in Kure. One of the guides of the museum said that 2 guns and one mount were build for testing and destroyed in 1945. The general consensus there is that they were going to be test it in the laid down Yamato hull 111. 

 

By the way... In tomorrows patch the Zarya Svobody will be renamed Sovetskaya Rossiya.

 

How it looks with the corrected numbers?? :cap_look:

I updated the topic with the new numbers.

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Had a look at the in game tech tree and tried to figure out real Russian ships and paper ships based on that (and Wiki).

 

Battleships (3 vs 1) real ships 75%

 

Knyaz Suvorov - paper

Gangut - real

Imperator Nikolai - laid down meaning real enough

Izmail - laid down, real

 

Puzzling, because there were more real BB's built just before the war... why a paper design is needed?

 

Cruisers (7 vs 0) real ships 100%

 

Novik - real

Bogatyr - real

Svetlana - laid down, real

Diana - real

Aurora - real

Oleg - real

Varyag - real

 

Nice, but why are so many of them premium ships? There are too few premium BB's and DD's in comparison...

 

DD's (2 vs 2) real ships 50%

 

Storozhevoi - paper

Derzki - real

Izyaslav - real

Okhotnik - paper

 

Why so many paper DD's?

 

CV's (none) --%

 

In total we get 12 real ships vs. 3 paper ships making Russian ships 80% real! :Smile_honoring:

 

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2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Had a look at the in game tech tree and tried to figure out real Russian ships and paper ships based on that (and Wiki).

 

Battleships (2 vs 1) real ships 67%

 

Knyaz Suvorov - paper

Gangut - real

Imperator Nikolai - laid down meaning real enough

 

Puzzling, because there were more real BB's built just before the war... why a paper design is needed?

 

Cruisers (7 vs 0) real ships 100%

 

Novik - real

Bogatyr - real

Svetlana - laid down, real

Diana - real

Aurora - real

Oleg - real

Varyag - real

 

Nice, but why are so many of them premium ships? There are too few premium BB's and DD's in comparison...

 

DD's (2 vs 2) real ships 50%

 

Storozehvoi - paper

Derzki - real

Izyaslav - real

Okhotnik - paper

 

Why so many paper DD's?

 

CV's (none) --%

 

In total we get 11 real ships vs. 3 paper ships making Russian ships 79% real! :Smile_honoring:

 

I got the same numbers, only that I counted Izmail as Russian since she was laid down before WW1. Also updated the topic post.

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1 minute ago, BruceRKF said:

I got the same numbers, only that I counted Izmail as Russian since she was laid down before WW1. Also updated the topic post.

 

You are abs correct, I missed that one. I will make corrections to my post, cheers! :Smile_honoring:

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Ha, interesting how some ships are put in the game by WG

 

For example Vasteras is a completely fictional ship for Sweden, but on the other hand, if it was in game under Polish name (as it should) it would be classified as paper ship as, even according to in game description, it is rejected project for Grom-class DDs. 

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1 hour ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

One of my many cousins was a submarine skipper. :Smile_honoring:

 

 

Something tells me most of the Italian and perhaps other countries designs could already be found somewhere closer to home... such as the details of the Pugliese system ...:Smile_glasses:

 

I'm actually a bit surprised by how low the percentage is for German, Italian and French ships. Not at all surprised for the Japanese, American or British ships. I am not the least surprised by the low Soviet count though I would like to see a breakdown between Russian and Soviet ships... :Smile_trollface:

the low percentage for Germans is very easily understandable when you consider the most advanced historical German ships maxing out at tier 8...

Also, German shipbuilding until the 30ies was very severely restricted because of the diktat of 11.11.1918

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2 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

However, ive also heard that a lot of russian players think, that their ships are bad...

Errr ....what?

 

e6CDbuz.jpg

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Furius_Marius said:

Now USA will get a full paper line.

And it's pretty aweful, because the US engineers were not conjuring up pipe dreams never meant to exist but were restricted to realistic concepts with the means and money to build them...

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1 minute ago, Furius_Marius said:

Now USA will get a full paper line.

 

I sneakily suspect WeeGee is doing this to try and fluff their Soviet cream ships that are a figment of fantasy.  :Smile_trollface:

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