Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
_S1N

new to the how to deal with CV as dd

22 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[TYFN]
Players
47 posts
1,516 battles

bought myself the loyang tier 8 premium dd, and had a match recently where the carrier primed me the first 1-3 minutes. it took like 1-2 shoots on my ship and i was almost dead.

 

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ISAUT]
[ISAUT]
Players
25 posts
9,182 battles

1.good cv player go hunt dd's = win 

   its a f***** pain to play against cv who know his/her crap in dd 

2. cv whiners ;) no oidea really

3 nothing

 

 i love dd's and im crap in cv

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ENUF]
[ENUF]
Players
2,133 posts
21,904 battles

It is a very bad idea to play a tier 8 when you have only 136 battles under your belt. Slow down, play through the tiers and you will learn on the way how to play. Most likely you haven't setup your ship and captain correctly which makes it extremely hard to play a DD. I would recommend to learn the basics of the game at low and mid tiers. The best class for that imo is cruisers, for example US and Japanese.

However, CVs are difficult - impossible to counter depending on the CV player's skill.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
Players
3,690 posts
13,958 battles

 

When not high tier EU/US DD

 

-Shut AA off untill actually discovered. 

-try to run in other detection strike aircraft are searching

-Shut AA off again when the aircraft turn after a pass so they lose LOS again.

 

-do not rush to caps

-dont fire your guns with aircraft near, not even in smoke

-dont be where you are expected to be

-yes staying near the fleet in the starting minutes makes you surviving the lenght of the match more likely.  Plenty of scoring opertunities if you live long enough. 

 

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TORAZ]
Beta Tester
14,161 posts
20,120 battles
36 minutes ago, _S1N said:

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

 

1. It's not.

2. Because WG needs to keep the few CV players that are remaining happy, otherwise their current implementation of CVs could be considered a failure.

3. That depends on the skill of the CV player. If the enemy CV player is sufficiently skilled there is nothing you can do except for not playing DDs in the first place. Or any other class but CVs for that matter.

  • Cool 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TYFN]
Players
47 posts
1,516 battles
Zitat

It is a very bad idea to play a tier 8 when you have only 136 battles under your belt. Slow down, play through the tiers and you will learn on the way how to play. Most likely you haven't setup your ship and captain correctly which makes it extremely hard to play a DD. I would recommend to learn the basics of the game at low and mid tiers. The best class for that imo is cruisers, for example US and Japanese.

However, CVs are difficult - impossible to counter depending on the CV player's skill.

 

 

no worries, im just a returning player with a new account. i played like 2-3 years ago. just need it also for the credit grind.

 

ans thanks for the answer. guess have to smoke and avoid them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,954 posts
20,698 battles
49 minutes ago, _S1N said:

bought myself the loyang tier 8 premium dd, and had a match recently where the carrier primed me the first 1-3 minutes. it took like 1-2 shoots on my ship and i was almost dead.

 

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

 

  1. it isn't
  2. because WG seems to have an unlimited supply of thirst for Vodka, but a limited supply of money to buy Vodka, unless some people are handed some OP toys to play with
  3. roll over and show your belly, so the CV will be done with you fast... then, in harbour, chose a different ship and press the "enter battle" button, while praying that there's no CVs in the next battle.. sacrificing some sheep or a virgin to RNGesus might help with that...
  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SM0KE]
Players
5,876 posts
14,139 battles
14 minutes ago, _S1N said:

bought myself the loyang tier 8 premium dd, and had a match recently where the carrier primed me the first 1-3 minutes. it took like 1-2 shoots on my ship and i was almost dead.

 

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

Good choice  - stick a coal hydro mod on her if you can.

 

1. The damage that CVs do (IMO) isn't actually that catastrophic, assuming you can Just DodgeTM. The real threat that they present is the spotting.

2. Dunno; whoever organised the reework doesn't want to look bad, or something?

3. What to do about it is a bit more involved, so a question/comment, followed by some notes...

 

Is this your first account? If it is, you (at time of writing) have 116 random battles under your belt; that's not a bad thing, but it does mean you are very new to the game, and there is quite a range of stuff for you to learn that you probably haven't got to yet. As far as I can tell, your highest tier ship (besides Loyang) is T6; this means that - unless you're a world-class prodigy - your skill-set, and most likely available captains aren't ready for T8 battles yet. If I'm guessing correctly, don't worry (many of us did the same thing - my equivalent was the IS-6 in WOT), you can use Loyang in Coop mode, whilst skills and captains catch up.

 

It's a really bad idea to rush up the tiers too fast; WOWS is built such that if you go up at a more considered pace, you learn about key aspects/mechanics of the game in steps, and avoid having to face everything all at once (as you do at T8, when you can easily face players with many thousands of games and 19 point captains).

 

So, in general terms, what can a DD do about CVs (assuming you've taken a sensible approach to tier progression etc.):

  • Firstly, understand that most CV players are not really that good (you will soon realise that this is an enormous relief to DDs); *however* there are some out there whose skill levels are truly fearsome (there are a few on this forum that you'll see pop up at times) - such players will take you to the cleaners pretty much no matter what you do. Basically, we have to accept that, and just try and distract them for as long as possible before they do us in. Everything that follows assumes you're not dealing with one of these unicums.
  • Understand how the vision mechanics work (see the wiki for more: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection). Much of dealing with CVs involves, in one way or another, taking maximum advantage of these mechanics. DDs are usually pretty stealthy, so the first defence against CVs is not being found in the first place, although you can't rely on this entirely. Make sure you always run cammo (at least in PvP modes), concealment mod (when relevant; generally T8+), and a CE captain (when you're into the +2 MM bracket, if not before); if you don't do all this, you'll be at a significant disadvantage compared to most of your opponents. BTW your first ten points on a DD captain should usually look like this (source: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc):

image.thumb.png.9891a693bbcc2a4c1a0c3496a0ae1ccb.png

  • Make sure your mini-map is as big as practical and make use of it: situational awareness is a great defence against planes, and you need to make extensive use of the mini-map to have it (also essential for surface to surface too). Enable the various range circles, especially surface and air detection.
  • Know your ships and their capabilities: how fast/nimble are you? Is your AA any good (most DDs' isn't but there are a few exceptions), and - important - is your AA range longer than your air spotting distance? Do you have smoke, and, if so, what sort? Do you have a heal (mostly, no)? Do you have DefAA, and do you know how it interacts with sector reinforcement.
  • First thing to do when the game starts is switch your AA off (if it out-ranges your air spotting distance; press and hold h in game to get a quick look at the relevant numbers) - you only want to let AA fire at carefully chosen moments as it often won't do much damage and it extends your air spotting distance to the range of your AA (that can be easily more than double). Switch your AA off whenever you don't actively need it.
  • If a plane is bearing down on you (and you aren't in what passes for an AA monster, which means 75-90%ish of DDs), your ideal option is to get out of the way; if the plane doesn't spot you, then hurrah, you can get on with whatever you were doing.
  • If the plane really wants to find you he probably will (for a start, he gets a warning when a ship spots him, even if he hasn't spotted it yet, so he knows you're in the area); you have a choice here - fight or flight (or both). If you have allies with good AA nearby, run for their AA umbrella.
  • If you want to fight, wait until the planes are inside your AA range (exactly where will vary with ship and which auras are better than others) and then reactivate your AA. Read up on sector reinforcement and use it - it makes a huge difference - I have mine mapped to a spare mouse button, as the default isn't very convenient (enabling sector reinforcement will also activate your AA, so you can do everything with one click/button. An important note though: if you have DefAA on your ship, enable it *before* sector reinforcement; I believe that maximises the benefits of both aspects. You also want to manouevre hard, so as to keep the enemy planes in your reinforced sector as much as possible, not to mention making you harder to hit.
  • If you have smoke, use it if you need to break visual contact with planes; I tend to avoid using it prophylactically though, as a huge cloud of smoke tells the enemy roughly where you are on the map.
  • Whatever you're doing (fighting or fleeing), when you are spotted by planes, you need to try and avoid LoS to as many enemy surface ships as possible - most of the time they'll be what sinks you, not the planes.
  • Just DodgeTM - this (and switching off AA) is WG's standard - and wildly unhelpful - advice; there is some utility here though. Most DDs are extremely nimble, so you can often dodge at least some of the incoming fire, or at least position yourself such that the planes don't have an optimal line of attack on your (in general, go nose in to torps, and side on to bombers; rockets are a bugger - try and turn hard and at random, and change course hard at the moment of firing; you won't dodge everything, but every little helps).

Your default behaviour should usually be to try and evade planes, but sometimes you don't have any choice but to fight; your key aim (for the good of the team) is to last as long as you possibly can - every moment that a CV is attacking you he isn't stopping someone else on your team from doing something useful. When you do have to fight, you almost certainly won't stop the initial strike getting through (very few ships can), but every plane you kill is useful, plus - from a selfish perspective - will earn you rewards (I've come top three, or better, in battles where I did essentially no damage, but did massacre planes).

 

BTW if you do have something where 'fight' isn't the last resort, keep an eye on the state of your AA - hits from HE will shoot some/all of it off (press and hold h again for this info in game).

  • Cool 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PISH]
Players
370 posts
3,093 battles

If you listen to the whiners you will learn nothing.

 

I partake in DD and CV a little so allow me to share my thoughts.

 

As a CV there are several caps and engagements I have to support to the best of my ability. Hence shortening time between attacks. I can harass spot and do what I can to make a DD's life hell. However this takes time if the DD knows his stuff. Time I don't have when the other flank needs a cruiser/BB finished off or forced back.

 

As others have stated turn off your AA. A CV can find you eventually given time but as stated above time is at a premium on a CV additionally once found with a DD air detection range the squadron will be on to of you without enought space to launch an attack run.

 

With the above in mind remeber planes have reticle bloom when turning. Don't allow the CV to line you up and deliver a full payload.

 

I hope this helps you.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[-TPF-]
Players
4,046 posts
16,682 battles
50 minutes ago, _S1N said:

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

Depends on the DD and the CV. You need to know your enemy, especially their attack patterns, and work up from there.

 

US rocket planes have an elliptical firing pattern where they'd need to come in on your broadside for max effect, Japanese ones are a circle which closes fast but doesn't adjust well to last minute movements, British ones are generally drunk. You can dodge these, and smoke can help you stay concealed - but always treat this like a British DD with 45 second duration. Staying too long will get you killed, the CV will come back with torps, bombs or he'll bring his mates with radar. 

 

US dive bombers are not nice to DDs but they have a forward facing elliptical drop pattern and horizontal dodging /changing speed works. Japanese ones use AP bombs that won't do too much damage, they have the same pattern as US bombers. British ones have carpet bombs with a forward facing ellipse pattern, the bombs drop front to back, apart from Ark Royal which has a circular drop pattern. These are nasty as, like British HE shells, they will break all your modules.

 

Otherwise, all of what Verblonde just said. And remember the WoWs DD creed - stay alive. The reason why the CV is after you is because you get more powerful the longer you're in the game. Vision control and the potential to do huge damage to capital ships become incredibly important as a game goes along. Ignore the whiny allied BB shouting for intelligence data - if they can't predict the opening moves on most game maps then they just need to do some more thinking. So if you make an early forward move, make sure you're next to an AA cruiser - the Blob still works as an effective AA defence, and a high tier CV which loses a whole squadron early doors will spend the whole game catching up. And remember that a CV who spends too long hunting you is not doing any meaningful spotting for his team, which is a great sin.

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,938 posts
29 minutes ago, _S1N said:

no worries, im just a returning player with a new account. i played like 2-3 years ago. just need it also for the credit grind.

 

ans thanks for the answer. guess have to smoke and avoid them

They are not that powerful imo. Not to the extend people making out to be (in most cases and I will explain). You must face a player with far better ability than yours (in a CV) to completely ruin your game. If he's  not competent, your own CV will ruin his game and own him. He won't manage to help his team at all. In all cases finally, each team has one.

They are difficult to counter, but not invisible.

They get nerfed every other patch so 'balance' is on the horizon imo. Plus subs are coming soon.

If you face a better player than you in any other ship (even BB) you will have a miserable game in most cases.

While they are a very stronk class (not all CVs though), so is some dds, and some cruisers or even bbs, imo most of it is just people not liking them cuz they changed some fundamental strategies in game and preferring the RTS variant. I didnt like the old version, I like this more since it is the one I learned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SPURD]
Players
483 posts
3,994 battles

You could always try playing carrier to find out. I did that, and turns out you can just casually ruin a DD's game with no effort. Especially if you just decide "nope, you don't get to play world of warships" they aren't going to do anything.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,508 posts
7,604 battles
1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

If the enemy CV player is sufficiently skilled there is nothing you can do except for not playing DDs in the first place. Or any other class but CVs for that matter.

 

and if enemy CV is that skilled you probably don't want to be playing CV either.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LUZ1]
Players
748 posts
12,082 battles

Hi,

Lots of good answers already.

My experience is that with a modicum of good play, 99% of CVs are not a problem for a DD.

- always turn off your AA until spotted by the planes.

- turn on the detection range by air circle in your minimap

- when planes are coming your way at the start of the game, try to avoid them, if that does not work, smoke up in time. This is at about 4,5 km distance. Try to be smoked up before he spottes you. Move carefully to the edge of your smoke, you are less likely to get hit there

- you can turn on your AA in smoke

- move out of the smoke when the planes are gone. When the CV has dropped fighters on you, kill them first. Don't sit in smoke. Turn your AA off again

- it's the rocket planes which are the most dangerous. Bombs and torps not so much usually

- if you have done this the first time, most CVs will lose interest in you. They have other targets to go after.

- if the CV is persistent and comes back with a second load of planes, it becomes more difficult. A good CV will ruin your game. But there are few good CVs. And you will have rendered a valuable service to your team because you kept a good CV busy.

- a bad CV will not do much damage. Turn into the planes and maneuver violently. Turn on your AA with the sector on the right side. You may have to use another smoke if he is half good. 

- be careful if there are also radar cruisers around. With CV attention and a radar cruiser in range you may have to pull back a bit or find cover behind an island.

- try to play for your objectives when the planes are gone. CVs try to disrupt your game, so your value to the team is reduced. So as soon as the planes are gone, get back to spotting, attacking enemy DDs and sending fishes to the BaBBies.

Good luck!

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
10,117 posts
11,884 battles
9 hours ago, _S1N said:

bought myself the loyang tier 8 premium dd, and had a match recently where the carrier primed me the first 1-3 minutes. it took like 1-2 shoots on my ship and i was almost dead.

 

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

Only semi reliable counter against CV that happen to have hard on for your DD are British and silver PanAsian destroyers due to multiple quick reloading smokes. And even then you're not "countering", you're delaying CV hoping he will run out of time before you run out of smokes.

 

9 hours ago, _S1N said:

1.how is that balanced?

With submarines being in development for like two years at this point, you gotta make sure they will be interesting enough. One of ways would be making previous "stealthy torpedo" class absolute misery to play with:cap_tea:

 

9 hours ago, _S1N said:

2. why is CV so good right now?

CV is as good as player behind one, there are no shortage of people who have no clue and fail spectacularly. After all, only skill required to play this game is to press "battle" button.

 

9 hours ago, _S1N said:

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

Generous use of smoke, something you can do in aforementioned DD lines, not so much in Lo Yang. Otherwise, your best bet is to force headon so rockets will overshoot, preferably with some heavy AA behind you to knock as many planes as possible, alternatively friendly CV fighters.

 

Oh and you enable AA only when detected by planes. Otherwise you're just "drop rockets here" beacon.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
Players
3,690 posts
13,958 battles

And to add  to all that : a CV won't keep hunting DD forever as it has other aircraft to use against other targets. If the team fails to kill a DD the CV lights up and attacks  it will be their problem to deal with it for a while. The CV usually loses aircraft to covering cruisers while attacking DD so has to regeneratie at some point when the team was not helpfull killing the DD.  

 

Or just needs to stop ongoing pushes with larger enemy ships by then and stops hunting DD for the time being.

 

Thats why it is beneficial for DD to hold back match start and not charge ahead on its own. It will simply be killed and that has nothing to do with balance but misplay. 

 

As stated CV were nerfed to the point they are not as dangerous as they were before. At least the ones not removed from shop or the tech tree ones. Sure they can sometimes hit hard and kill but not worse then any other ship can do. It is often the spotting that kills. Thats why a CV needs the allied fleet to fire on the lit up DD too....and a DD not be far ahead all on its own match start or be fired upon by half an enemy fleet.  

 

 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
3,195 posts
3,662 battles
14 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

You could always try playing carrier to find out.

This is excellent advice. Playing even a few games in a CV (of at least tier VI, I'd say) will teach you a lot about their strengths and weaknesses. If nothing else, it will give you a hint of what to do when you're in a DD and want to avoid getting hit by the vengeful Sky God.

 

14 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

I did that, and turns out you can just casually ruin a DD's game with no effort. Especially if you just decide "nope, you don't get to play world of warships" they aren't going to do anything.

Well, yes and no. Kinda sorta. 

 

I once did that in a tier IV carrier just to try it out. And by "that", I mean going after the enemy destroyers exclusively and trying to hunt them down to extinction, ruining their game and stomping on their will to live. It worked (and then I had to go and donate to charity in order to maintain my status as a decent human being)... but when I tried doing the same thing at higher tiers, it presented more of a problem. The AA, while certainly not a game-changer, was strong enough to actually present an obstacle at times, and the opposition generally played smarter as well (as could be expected). Now it is true that I suck goose eggs as a CV captain, so I'm not a mark for what can be done in those things, but I have a bit more experience in destroyers - and I am thankfully only rarely completely shut down in those even if focused by an enemy CV. (If there are two enemy CV:s, and both go for me, I am toast of course.)

 

A good CV player can do just what Captain Itwastuesday says and "casually ruin a DD's game with no effort", that's true enough. But a run-of-the-mill CV player has to at least put in an effort, and even then a moderately well-played destroyer can make him sweat and bleed plane hp for every hit he lands. Not that that stops him, due to magical plane-spawning carriers and all that, but it does make a difference. Or so I keep telling myself, at least... :Smile_veryhappy:

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TORAZ]
Beta Tester
14,161 posts
20,120 battles
4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

Thats why it is beneficial for DD to hold back match start and not charge ahead on its own. It will simply be killed and that has nothing to do with balance but misplay.

 

Except holding back in itself is a misplay since you will allow the enemy DDs to get caps for free. You then have the arduous task to play from behind and retake caps against an enemy CV.

Thus this method of "counterplay" is in reality a lose-lose situation.

 

4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

At least the ones not removed from shop or the tech tree ones.

 

So only 5 out of 18 CVs aren't extremely dangerous to DDs, huh?

Which btw is still untrue, Ark Royal is an excellent DD killer. That makes your count 4 out of 18, with only Saipan, GZ, Kaga and Indomitable being "bad" at dealing with DDs. And Saipan is arguable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[_I_]
Players
530 posts
18,467 battles
4 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

As stated CV were nerfed to the point they are not as dangerous as they were before, but still kicks your behind on top of being incredibly destructive for gamplay and general enjoyment of the game.

You forgot a part, so since I'm kind I added it in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
6,806 posts
16 hours ago, _S1N said:

bought myself the loyang tier 8 premium dd, and had a match recently where the carrier primed me the first 1-3 minutes. it took like 1-2 shoots on my ship and i was almost dead.

 

1.how is that balanced?

2. why is CV so good right now?

3 and what can i do againt that? move entirly to a new position, between battleships and cruisers and just support them?

Well you can try sacrificing small animals on an alter... I hear goats and sheep go well over...

 

On serious notice - not much you can do, manage your smokes, turn of your AA when moving around so you are harder to spot and thats about it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
Players
3,690 posts
13,958 battles
26 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Except holding back in itself is a misplay since you will allow the enemy DDs to get caps for free. You then have the arduous task to play from behind and retake caps against an enemy CV.

Thus this method of "counterplay" is in reality a lose-lose situation.

 

DD being killed withing 3 minutes is a lose-lose situation. That happens to kill zone cap rushing DD exclusively. Simply because they are not concealed if everyone knows where they are....

 

With and without CV due to radar, hydro, stealthy DD killer cruisers and DD killer DD mechanics. Blaming CV exclusively is just blind hate, if removed complaining post would target radar, hydro, DD killer Cruisers and DD killer DD next.....

 

Quote

So only 5 out of 18 CVs aren't extremely dangerous to DDs, huh?

Which btw is still untrue, Ark Royal is an excellent DD killer. That makes your count 4 out of 18, with only Saipan, GZ, Kaga and Indomitable being "bad" at dealing with DDs. And Saipan is arguable.

I meant exclusively the unbalanced Enterprise with its great number of relatively well armoured and relative accurate  strike fighters. The CV you use(d) so much...

 

You are right the Enterprise in not that good overall....all my T8+ US ( i use Tiny Tims against DD and Cruisers )  and even my UK CV with the enhanced fire chance carpet bombers beat it in overall score....but it's strike fighters are the strongest and most DD play ruiining.

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TORAZ]
Beta Tester
14,161 posts
20,120 battles
46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

DD being killed withing 3 minutes is a lose-lose situation. That happens to kill zone cap rushing DD exclusively. Simply because they are not concealed if everyone knows where they are....

 

And if you don't you are useless and essentially afk for your team while putting it behind.

Thus no matter what you do, the CV wins.

 

Did you know that this method of "counterplay" is actually against the game rules and can be punished btw?

 

46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Blaming CV exclusively is just blind hate, if removed complaining post would target radar, hydro, DD killer Cruisers and DD killer DD next

 

Except no, because unlike CVs these mechanics have actual counterplay that allows you to take action against them without putting yourself into a negative position.

Which is exactly why we didn't see a plethora of such whine threads and the few that we did see were shut down by the more experienced players.

 

46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I meant exclusively the unbalanced Enterprise

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

At least the ones not removed from shop or the tech tree ones.

 

Sure dude.

 

46 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

You are right the Enterprise in not that good overall

 

Enterprise is the most blatantly overpowered ship in the entire game. If you cannot make her perform, well, that just puts things into perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×