CV..

[UberTomatoPL]

I'm an Average player, I neither do amazing or terrible. just know what to do when needed, but i tried to spec my Desmoines (favourite ship) for Full AA and a loving CV (Hakuyu) brings hits lovely planes drops me twice and im dead, With might i add DFAA and a full AA spec, i was in a crowd of cruisers and BB's, did not stop both drops.

just to theory craft, now i thought USN CL/A where meant to boast great AA? i do remember in days of old, they did defend themselves quite well? And this made CV players think wisely before approach a USN CA/L etc.

 

Now there has been lots of complaints and post etc, but to get my piece out before i just rage quit the game entirely, why did WG allow this kind of poor design in this game? i mean unlimited planes, do tons of dmg, with litterally little to none counter?

DD's get picked on by Radar, and various other methods i get but there is a way to play with your team and eventualyl play your role, but if there isnt any kind of plan to attack a AA cruiser. then why the hell do we even have DFAA? or any AA for that matter, its not like we can damage a CV hanger or even damage them in the first place? nothing to stop them from magically spawn aircraft for us be spotted, unable to really do anything? might i add, i was in a crowd of cruisers and BB's, did not stop both drops

 

I feel like there should be a restriction of sort to not be in queue with CV's just because its not fun to be blapped with no counter or any means to stop the darkness coming to get me, maybe limited the amount of aircraft in the hanger like it was before..

or bring back air superiority groups back, allow more diverse CV play and gameplay for the team (theory and opinion). it just seems we get all these new ships with great specs but the oldies are just left to rot and "deal with the issues"..

 

again its my opinion and regardless, just wanted to discuss them with community. 

 

cheers, stay safe!

[Lebedjev]

Your first mistake was to do an AA build.

[UberTomatoPL]

1 minute ago, Lebedjev said:

Your first mistake was to do an AA build.

 

Your right to regret it but i thought it would make some sort of impact, i dont mind trying things for myself but i did not realize how bad any defensive AA is currently, just frustrating to be dropped with zero means to mitigate any thing...

[lossi_2018]

were you stationary/moving very slow? cuz in Haku when determined I can throw 2/3 s of a squad to kill a cruiser causing trouble while not actively avoiding, even if it is in midst of an AA bubble. It depends, sometimes you take the hit in planes for the kill. Economize torps for the rest of the game.

 

PS: Losses in planes are horrendous when facing combined AA as you describe but are shared between the other ships so they might not show in your score

[Ryuuteimaru]

AA was nerfed into the ground, CV can hit you with near impunity unless you're in a AA bubble of 3-4 ships even then they'll usually get at leat one drop on you.

[UberTomatoPL]

2 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

were you stationary/moving very slow? cuz in Haku when determined I can throw 2/3 s of a squad to kill a cruiser causing trouble while not actively avoiding, even if it is in midst of an AA bubble. It depends, sometimes you take the hit in planes for the kill. Economize torps for the rest of the game.

i think first drop i was doing 30+ knots and second drop i was actively trying to slow and throw the drops off to no avail. eh maybe i should just be a BB player aha!

[Peroidas]

Somehow when I play CV, my planes disappear when in AA bubble of more than 1 TX ships. US ships are among the best though new Russian cruisers have longer range while Halland and similar can destroy squads alone.

 

Bombers are indeed most effective of three types in dodging flak, but have to come on top of enemy ship for a chance to hit.

 

I would say that it is not CV that is OP, but maybe Japanese AP bombs. As playing US CVs I do not see those huge dmg - bombs in theory do up to 10k damage/hit, but in reality it is more like 2-3k/hit, so super precise 5 bomb hit do no more than 15k, just like DD torp or BB citadel.

[koliber_1984]

It was stated many times in this forum: All AA builds are useless against current air attacks. Waiting for Rework 2.0 to soften some things, which will probably never happen. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 minutes ago, UberTomatoPL said:

 

Your right to regret it but i thought it would make some sort of impact, i dont mind trying things for myself but i did not realize how bad any defensive AA is currently, just frustrating to be dropped with zero means to mitigate any thing...

Well it does, half of the CV pp;layers is a total XXXX and your "AA build" will kill 90% of their planes. 

And then they can take two options, they go somewhere else or lose all their planes. 

But it will not stop any decent player and a good or unicum player will just laugh.

 

 

[gabberworld]

5 minutes ago, koliber_1984 said:

All AA builds are useless against current air attacks.

 

if they change AA for too strong  then cv will be useless, so not happens

[Peroidas]

1 minute ago, koliber_1984 said:

It was stated many times in this forum: All AA builds are useless against current air attacks. Waiting for Rework 2.0 to soften some things, which will probably never happen. 

 

AA on tiers TVIII-TX is already over the top and CVs would be unplayable for anybody except super unicums if any more is added. On lower tiers though, you are right, CVs seem to be OP, as ships AA suite is much much weaker while plane HP (after all the buffs) is not that much smaller then on TVIII-X.

[Ocsimano18]

RTS CVs had enormous alpha strike, were able to spot at multiple places at the same time, etc. They were much more OP than the CVs we have now, even with high AA ships. And the biggest impact was the silly panic effect of def AA, that could be played around by pro players. So comparing only one aspect with today's CVs makes not much sense.

 

By the way, AP bomb nerf is coming tomorrow, along with stronger rockets against broadsiding cruisers, so you have to be moving and angling.

[CptBarney]

5 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

RTS CVs had enormous alpha strike, were able to spot at multiple places at the same time, etc. They were much more OP than the CVs we have now, even with high AA ships. And the biggest impact was the silly panic effect of def AA, that could be played around by pro players. So comparing only one aspect with today's CVs makes not much sense.

 

By the way, AP bomb nerf is coming tomorrow, along with stronger rockets against broadsiding cruisers, so you have to be moving and angling.

You could also dodge said strikes and CV's were punished far more heavily for flying around actual AA no go zones than what you have today.

Plus no plane respawn and cv's had to worry about the other cv killing of its planes.

 

RTS version had issues, but if weegee bothered to fix them in anyway this version of CV's wouldn't of been needed. But i guess its more consistent in terms of actual play style in-regards to the rest of the game.

Graf zep was hilarious broken with her AP dive bombers, although thats weegees inability to not add questionable mechanics to the game in the first place.

 

But then the playerbase is so inept that they failed to grasp both version of cv's regardless.

 

Eitherway making a mechanic for a ship game based around the concept of surface combat was always going to be a stupid idea even more so when shoved into pvp, and this was before the game became public i think.

But then look at the questionable things weegee did in world of tanks before than and you can understand (sort of) why they added them in (around 2015 and before).

 

Oh well.

[OldPappy]

54 minutes ago, UberTomatoPL said:

I'm an Average player, I neither do amazing or terrible. just know what to do when needed, but i tried to spec my Desmoines (favourite ship) for Full AA and a loving CV (Hakuyu) brings hits lovely planes drops me twice and im dead, With might i add DFAA and a full AA spec, i was in a crowd of cruisers and BB's, did not stop both drops.

just to theory craft, now i thought USN CL/A where meant to boast great AA? i do remember in days of old, they did defend themselves quite well? And this made CV players think wisely before approach a USN CA/L etc.

 

Now there has been lots of complaints and post etc, but to get my piece out before i just rage quit the game entirely, why did WG allow this kind of poor design in this game? i mean unlimited planes, do tons of dmg, with litterally little to none counter?

DD's get picked on by Radar, and various other methods i get but there is a way to play with your team and eventualyl play your role, but if there isnt any kind of plan to attack a AA cruiser. then why the hell do we even have DFAA? or any AA for that matter, its not like we can damage a CV hanger or even damage them in the first place? nothing to stop them from magically spawn aircraft for us be spotted, unable to really do anything? might i add, i was in a crowd of cruisers and BB's, did not stop both drops

 

I feel like there should be a restriction of sort to not be in queue with CV's just because its not fun to be blapped with no counter or any means to stop the darkness coming to get me, maybe limited the amount of aircraft in the hanger like it was before..

or bring back air superiority groups back, allow more diverse CV play and gameplay for the team (theory and opinion). it just seems we get all these new ships with great specs but the oldies are just left to rot and "deal with the issues"..

 

again its my opinion and regardless, just wanted to discuss them with community. 

 

cheers, stay safe!

Face it! AA is a joke. CV is a broken op joke that is just too silly to discuss further. Cvs do what they please in the hands of competent player and all you can do really is hope you are not in the line of sight! The most satisfying thing is to sink one of them!😀

But WG dont care about this as enough players play them and keep buying the premium ones. So you - as the rest of us non cv players - have two choices. Live with it or quit. It is never going to change!

And I 100% agree that it is stupid beyond belif that DM can be dropped like that. One of the most powerful aa cruisers built. 

[Ocsimano18]

23 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

You could also dodge said strikes and CV's were punished far more heavily for flying around actual AA no go zones than what you have today.

Plus no plane respawn and cv's had to worry about the other cv killing of its planes.

 

RTS version had issues, but if weegee bothered to fix them in anyway this version of CV's wouldn't of been needed. But i guess its more consistent in terms of actual play style in-regards to the rest of the game.

Graf zep was hilarious broken with her AP dive bombers, although thats weegees inability to not add questionable mechanics to the game in the first place.

 

But then the playerbase is so inept that they failed to grasp both version of cv's regardless.

 

Eitherway making a mechanic for a ship game based around the concept of surface combat was always going to be a stupid idea even more so when shoved into pvp, and this was before the game became public i think.

But then look at the questionable things weegee did in world of tanks before than and you can understand (sort of) why they added them in (around 2015 and before).

 

Oh well.

The strategy for RTS CVs was doing spotting and fighter duel in the first part of the game while taking out lonely low AA ships (like guys driving their brand new Tirpitz). As ships spread out more, you could go after weakened targets, and at the end of the game, when AA guns were lost to HE, you could take 3-4 ships out. The number of your planes was your most important resource and you never got bored as there was always something to do. But the skill gap was high, and if you were on the losing end, you lost all your planes at the half of the game and were doing virtually nothing during the rest of the game. This turned a lot of beginners away from CVs. Now, after the rework, time is the most important resource, you have to attack somebody, otherwise you don't do enough damage over the game. You have no time to search for the optimal target, or to play around fighters or defensive AA. Also, if you drop a fighter over someone, you need a target nearby, otherwise you lose time. So make the red CV lose time.

[illy]

the best AA defence is to make the CV find an even easier target than yourself, but if a decent CV player wants to do some damage there really isn't much you can do about it

[OldPappy]

9 minutes ago, illy said:

the best AA defence is to make the CV find an even easier target than yourself, but if a decent CV player wants to do some damage there really isn't much you can do about it

True! SAD!!! SNAFU

[Peroidas]

13 minutes ago, illy said:

the best AA defence is to make the CV find an even easier target than yourself, but if a decent CV player wants to do some damage there really isn't much you can do about it

And if DECENT DD player wants to do some damage, how do you prevent it? Or cruiser player? Or BB player? 

How can you prevent them from doing SOME damage? You can angle or dodge... But if they are DECENT you will most probably take at least SOME damage. 

 

Why do people want ability to deny CV players any chance at doing damage? 

 

There may be too large gap between skill of unicum players and your average CVer, but that data is not available to us, players. BDW can't unicums get 200-300k damage in any class of ship? And carry against multiple opponents?

[lovelacebeer]

Sadly as others have stated an AA build is useless especially if the enemy CV is half decent, your options are try to be uninteresting at the start and hope they find someone else to torture, or pray that they are really bad at CV.

 

Sadly though that's the state of things and I guess soon this thread will end up being locked for obvious reasons.

[BLUB__BLUB]

7 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

And if DECENT DD player wants to do some damage, how do you prevent it? Or cruiser player? Or BB player? 

How can you prevent them from doing SOME damage? You can angle or dodge... But if they are DECENT you will most probably take at least SOME damage. 

There is ways to do it. Like if you are in a DD, turn off AA and mostly a CV discovers you too late.

Then he has to return (and drop a fighter to keep you spotted, of which he has limited ones) and re-aim. 

If he has rockets you run into him to shorten his aiming time. That lessens the damage although the better the CV player, the less it will work. 

For example a half-wit like me sometimes gets tricked (in some CVs) but somebody like @El2aZeR in Enterprise well nope. 

And usually they don't trick me either or just half, or I will just come back to kill them later anyway.

 

7 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

Why do people want ability to deny CV players any chance at doing damage? 

Of course they do. Just like I wanna give the middle finger to a BB when I am in a cruiser. 

If I am smart and he is stupid I might even burn down that Yamato in my Chapayev. 

Hoever the difference is even if you are smart and the CV player is very stupid t you can't burn him down.

Best you can do is deny damage as the only way to burn him down is to find the CV - but not just the planes.

 

7 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

There may be too large gap between skill of unicum players and your average CVer, but that data is not available to us, players. BDW can't unicums get 200-300k damage in any class of ship? And carry against multiple opponents?

That data IS available, well sort of. And yes unicums can do 70-80% WR and mega damage in any ship. 

But the thing is, you cannot actually damage the CV, just something like "cripple his turrets temporarily". 

[Bratoev]

Would it be possible to have replay?

[illy]

15 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

And if DECENT DD player wants to do some damage, how do you prevent it? Or cruiser player? Or BB player? 

How can you prevent them from doing SOME damage? You can angle or dodge... But if they are DECENT you will most probably take at least SOME damage. 

 

Why do people want ability to deny CV players any chance at doing damage? 

 

There may be too large gap between skill of unicum players and your average CVer, but that data is not available to us, players. BDW can't unicums get 200-300k damage in any class of ship? And carry against multiple opponents?

i can hide behind an island, I can actively maneuver, i can use smoke(ok works with a cv as well) With a cv...makes no difference they will come and do you harm, in return you might shoot down a handful of planes that will regenerate, those planes have made your AA less effective so another attack will be more successful...so on and so on

[OldPappy]

31 minutes ago, Peroidas said:

And if DECENT DD player wants to do some damage, how do you prevent it? Or cruiser player? Or BB player? 

How can you prevent them from doing SOME damage? You can angle or dodge... But if they are DECENT you will most probably take at least SOME damage. 

 

Why do people want ability to deny CV players any chance at doing damage? 

 

There may be too large gap between skill of unicum players and your average CVer, but that data is not available to us, players. BDW can't unicums get 200-300k damage in any class of ship? And carry against multiple opponents?

A dd can easily be countered and DIRECTLY hurt. As can cruisers and bbs. A cv will get a squad shot down. So what?? No problem! There are plenty more to go..A mistake in dds, cl/ca or bbs is costly.  In a cv??? Nope! Shells and torps can be avoided. Rockets while in a dd?? Nope! Bombs? Nope!

Should i go on??😊

[Hopeless_Guppy]

49 minutes ago, OldPappy said:

A dd can easily be countered and DIRECTLY hurt. As can cruisers and bbs. A cv will get a squad shot down. So what?? No problem! There are plenty more to go..A mistake in dds, cl/ca or bbs is costly.  In a cv??? Nope! Shells and torps can be avoided. Rockets while in a dd?? Nope! Bombs? Nope!

Should i go on??😊

What tiers are we talking about, any tier 8 CV gets it squads shredded in any tier X battle, as for plenty of squads, not true the rate of ease which you can de-plane the Big E is atrocious, god forbid your in a GZ Kaga or Saipan.

[Padds01]

4 hours ago, UberTomatoPL said:

 Desmoines (favourite ship) for Full AA and a loving CV (Hakuyu) brings hits lovely planes drops me twice and im dead, With might i add DFAA and a full AA spec, i was in a crowd of cruisers and BB's, did not stop both drops.

 

 

Best way to think of AA nowadays its how much cost you apply to a CV attacking ships near you, but to  outright stopping a drop? not liekly to happen ever , stopping anything that comes in from coming back yeah AA can do that.

 

 a Hak killed you in 2 drop,s now you wer'nt stationary tucked in behind an island were you?