Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
HassenderZerhacker

tactical advice for CA/BB on high tier maps please

21 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
889 posts
3,425 battles

as I'm slowly progressing through the tiers, I get more and more often into battles on hier tier maps with high tier opponents.

enemies have GK, Yamato, Thunderer, Alaska, Donskoi, etc...

 

these maps often feature high islands over which I can't shoot the enemy. and if I get close enough to shoot, it usually means I'll get back a volley that will cost half my health or worse. Radar makes it very difficult to approach to do damage in my Mogami or Hipper.

 

What I do is trying to hunt DD at the beginning, shoot targets that are busy with a more dangerous foe than me and I also try to hide and ambush ship with my torps.

 

While the last thing is a bit exciting, most of the battle feels very boring though, like being a dog and lying beneath a table waiting for bits to drop off.

 

So, how do you play tier 8 CA vs. tier 10 opponents on maps like this?

The question is also valid for tier 8 BB which already melt rapidly under tier 8 HE spam, so at tier 10 it's a massacre.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
27,264 posts
14,525 battles
  • learn the maps
  • learn where enemy ships usually pop up and over which islands they can shoot over and between which islands you can get spotted
  • learn where you can fire on enemies
  • learn how to get close to objectives, without getting spotted or only taking minimal fire
  • learn how to get away from there, should your position be overrun
  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
10,255 posts
9,063 battles
16 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Radar makes it very difficult to approach to do damage in my Mogami or Hipper.

 

Thats not really a place where you should be in with those 2 Cruisers. Sure you can go a bit closer at the start, especially with Mogami since it has good concealment, but in general you cant go too close. All the higher tier Cruisers will wipe the floor with you, since they have a heal and you have not.

You can try to use islands to block vision, but sitting at islands doesnt really work with those 2. Getting randomly spotted while being stationary (and potentially broadside) can be devastating.

 

So if you want to get close, work with your concealment and turn before you get spotted. Then start kiting and shoot the enemies, use speed and rudder to juke/dodge enemy salvos. Dont be in a place, where you can get crossfired from BBs, rather turn your turrets instead of showing too much broadside.

 

As for BBs:

Dont be in a place, where they can just free farm you. You need to be able to go undetected if crap hits the fan. Other BBs arent really a threat, unless you show too much side or they are Yamato and you have 32mm armor (or they spam HE...)

Any BB has enough standing power, to retreat from a situation where he gets spammed by a TX Cruiser. But stopping and trying to reverse away is the right choice, that will help the HE spammer, as a reversing BB is extremely easy to hit. Rather take your losses but survive, than to die slowly but guaranteed.

Later on you can push in just fine, just dont overextend into the enemy spawn.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
889 posts
3,425 battles
42 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • learn the maps
  • learn where enemy ships usually pop up and over which islands they can shoot over and between which islands you can get spotted
  • learn where you can fire on enemies
  • learn how to get close to objectives, without getting spotted or only taking minimal fire
  • learn how to get away from there, should your position be overrun

"learn the maps" is what I try to do with this question in the forum

 

I can get spotted everywhere because DD and CV.

usually on these maps the cover is either too far to be useful or concentrated in the middle of the map

 

from where to fire: as I said, the islands are too high to fire over them

 

position/close to objectives... doesn't work as I always get spotted when I try to close in

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
10,255 posts
9,063 battles
1 minute ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

I can get spotted everywhere because DD and CV.

usually on these maps the cover is either too far to be useful or concentrated in the middle of the map

 

I think it would be easier to look at a specific map which gives you problems, than some general advice. Ive had success giving a player direct advice where he should go depending on the map, and it was much easier for him to understand.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
27,264 posts
14,525 battles
Just now, HassenderZerhacker said:

"learn the maps" is what I try to do with this question in the forum

 

I can get spotted everywhere because DD and CV.

usually on these maps the cover is either too far to be useful or concentrated in the middle of the map

 

from where to fire: as I said, the islands are too high to fire over them

 

position/close to objectives... doesn't work as I always get spotted when I try to close in

You do not learn about the maps by reading about them. You have to play on them.

 

You cannot be spotted everywhere at every time. Enemy ships and planes need time to get somehwere. Learn that. Take note when planes are on the other side of the map.

Every map has islands you can fire over with certain ships at certain distances.

 

It works for some apparently...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
889 posts
3,425 battles
1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

I think it would be easier to look at a specific map which gives you problems, than some general advice. Ive had success giving a player direct advice where he should go depending on the map, and it was much easier for him to understand.

funnily enough, it's the maps I dislike most that are the most frequent

 

Northern Waters

Mountain Range

Ice Islands

Crash Zone Alpha

Shards

...

 

then North and Northern Lights come up fairly often. these maps have 2 spots on each side from where to shoot, other than that in fragile bottom tier ships, it's just hiding, trying to get an angle over some rare island that is low enough for the shells to fly over it while ducking from DDs and CV... that gameplay is as exciting as watching paint dry.

 

the maps where the islands are too far for the guns to reach the enemy are the best of course...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SHAFT]
Players
10,255 posts
9,063 battles

This is for Cruisers.

37 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Northern Waters

Not a map ive played often yet, couple of times only.

image.png.67ba25e353b5ab308450eab425d3edab.png

Id prefer that side, as it has a lof of islands, which help you go undetected or turn around if necessary.

 

39 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Mountain Range

image.thumb.png.46b1dc0339bbef18a84e9926501ca4ad.png

 

Really bad map for T8 Cruiser in T10 MM, you will often have bad games because of the camping going on.

One of those spots, could be ok to have some cover and range to be able to shoot some enemies. On the left side, i wouldnt go too far in since you will have a hard time maneuvering, and many enemies like to go there, so you can try to farm them from the outside.

 

42 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Ice Islands

 

Tends to be a lame map because playerbase.

image.png.f1ce28e87fc4852e000d142f65df3c4c.png

 

Just dont go where the red circle is, usually 50% of the players go there and they sit next to each other for 10 mins until one side gets flanked. You cant shoot / cant maneuver there. Center is a bit risky, but can be played, shooting at where A cap is, or potentially help your DDs in the center too.

 

48 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Crash Zone Alpha

 

Havent played that either with T8 CAs i believe.

 

image.png.55e79106619c6f21e7b15396c6be19f2.png

Center play in general seems to be useless in the start, nothing will go there. You can ofc look to help your DD if one is going there, and use the islands at the yellow circle to cover yourself.

Id avoid getting into the corners, you can however go a bit outside to farm your opponents from there. Those outside maneuvers always depend on how the game develops ofc, if the enemies push you, dont push into them.

 

53 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

Shards

 

image.thumb.png.cdba64a9419972fa4cd53e906b9e4d33.png

Dont like that map since they reworked it

Avoid the corners, many people tend to go there for no reason. More of an open water playstyle because you hardly have working cover. Yellow line is a potential (but not frequent) move, depending what the enemies do. Dont do that ofc, when they push the corner.

Try to familiarize yourself, where most enemies go, especially BBs. Most of them go the mapborder, so even if you stay a bit in the center, you wont have many problems.

 

The better you can play open water, the more succesful you will be. Going too close to get cover and get spotted because of that will most likely get you killed. Mogami has good concealment, always look at how far you can go in. F.e. if your detection circly goes beyond a cappoint, you are already getting trapped. If the enemy DD enters the cap before you are spotted by him, you get an early warning and can turn around in time.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
2,466 posts
10,110 battles
3 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

So, how do you play tier 8 CA vs. tier 10 opponents on maps like this?

Avoid being the optimal target to shoot at.

That means positioning yourself in such a way that the enemies always have better targets to shoot at. So either behind your own ships, in kiting position, behind an island, etc.

Besides positioning your fire discipline is very important, especially when uptiered.

I see a lot of T8 cruisers in T10 matches fire their guns as one of the first on the team, getting shot at by 6 enemy ships (because he is the first spotted target) and blapped at the start. Often followed by a comment in chat along the lines of "f**k this, again uptiered, cant do anything, reeeeee."

But this is completely their own fault.

Patience is the key word here. You don't need to do dmg in the first 5 minutes of the game. So dont risk your ship to get one volley off. Play it a bit safe until most if not all enemies are spotted. Then you can position yourself accordingly.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
889 posts
3,425 battles
20 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Avoid being the optimal target to shoot at.

That means positioning yourself in such a way that the enemies always have better targets to shoot at. So either behind your own ships, in kiting position, behind an island, etc.

Besides positioning your fire discipline is very important, especially when uptiered.

I see a lot of T8 cruisers in T10 matches fire their guns as one of the first on the team, getting shot at by 6 enemy ships (because he is the first spotted target) and blapped at the start. Often followed by a comment in chat along the lines of "f**k this, again uptiered, cant do anything, reeeeee."

But this is completely their own fault.

Patience is the key word here. You don't need to do dmg in the first 5 minutes of the game. So dont risk your ship to get one volley off. Play it a bit safe until most if not all enemies are spotted. Then you can position yourself accordingly.

 

yeah... so it's really about hiding and tiptoeing around. problem: it's boooooring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
[THESO]
Players
2,631 posts
24,299 battles
2 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

yeah... so it's really about hiding and tiptoeing around. problem: it's boooooring.

... u'll never earn as much xp again, as on a good t8 match in pure t10 battle. luv it! :Smile_great:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LEEUW]
Players
2,466 posts
10,110 battles
1 hour ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

yeah... so it's really about hiding and tiptoeing around. problem: it's boooooring.

For the first part of the battle, perhaps.

But if you manage to stay alive as a low tier CA when the herd gets thinned out you become such a powerhouse. Sadly most cruisers never get to this stage, so they feel like its either "boring" gameplay or "yolo&die" gameplay.

 

Let me ask you this: How different is playing a T8 CA in a T10 match from playing a T5 CA in a T7 match? Or any shipclass for that matter... Basically the same principles are in place: If you are alive at the end, you can decide a game. Even as a lower tier ship. Except 99% of the captains die as lower tier ships before the match ends (because muuuhhhh boring) or they hang back being useless the entire match.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
27,264 posts
14,525 battles
2 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

yeah... so it's really about hiding and tiptoeing around. problem: it's boooooring.

Depends on your ship.

  • DD, no need for that
  • CA, when you have no smoke, better be careful, it is not your job to tank for BB or higher Tier ships
  • BB, depends on the BB, when you are slow and low Tier, better be careful, rest can take it
  • CV, just blow them up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
889 posts
3,425 battles
9 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Let me ask you this: How different is playing a T8 CA in a T10 match from playing a T5 CA in a T7 match? Or any shipclass for that matter... Basically the same principles are in place: If you are alive at the end, you can decide a game. Even as a lower tier ship. Except 99% of the captains die as lower tier ships before the match ends (because muuuhhhh boring) or they hang back being useless the entire match.

the maps are different.

playing tier 5 vs tier 7, it's much easier to find spots where I can use my ship's guns without being spotted. islands are lower and give more opportunities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
5,033 posts
8 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

the maps are different.

playing tier 5 vs tier 7, it's much easier to find spots where I can use my ship's guns without being spotted. islands are lower and give more opportunities.

 

:Smile_sceptic:....uhu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
Players
3,690 posts
13,866 battles

The simple  version is not to be aimed at by multiple enemy ships. There is a skill warming you for that. You can watch minimap ranges too.

 

When you fire guns your detection  range becomes your gun range ( if you can hit them and there is nothing blocking direct LOS they will see you ) so do not shoot unless you think you can get away with it.

 

I saw many (specifically) DD wildly firing guns and blaming CV, radar and hydro mechanics for their destruction....wat went wrong there one but wonders ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,932 posts
20,580 battles
On 7/6/2020 at 2:08 PM, HassenderZerhacker said:

So, how do you play tier 8 CA vs. tier 10 opponents on maps like this?

Usually not much different than in a battle with T9 ships... or in a pure T8 battle... or in a T6 battle where I'm high tier...

 

Yes, one could try to be extremely careful and attempt to not get annihilated fast... but it's way easier to "do your thing", get rekt and go back to harbour, choosing a different ship for the next battle...

I really can't understand the people playing only one ship all day long ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,922 posts

Everyone wants to shoot you first in Moga, except DDs perhaps. So staying low or even hide at start of game is solid advice. If it's boring (with a CV in game I can't fathom how) keep moving in support of other ships (your DD) and try to help wit yr many guns in a knifefight but don't put your head out. Most will shoot you over something else. You have a lot of annoying guns. Blocking a cap with a nice torp spread before retreating is always a nice touch. Later as said the ship offers pretty nice options especially if you have stayed with the smaller variant (again I can't fathom why you would choose something else). Pretty nice ship but not all maps favor it.

Hipper for me is an ambusher and somewhat different to play, as imo you have to get close or surprise people and sometimes people don't want or like being surprised or even worst have figured you out :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
889 posts
3,425 battles
5 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

 If it's boring (with a CV in game I can't fathom how)

that's easy: when a CV is there, it's even more difficult to hide.

short range guns + high islands make a for a very boring battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BHSFL]
Players
3,690 posts
13,866 battles

I have noticed at higher tiers players get reluctant to fire on small targets. 

 

Arguably because that lights them up while not sure  of hitting/scoring. 

 

Poses a problem to dispose of forward spotting  DD fast enough though. Players seems to generally think CV were not nerfed patch after patch and can insta-blap DD all by themselves. While it is combined fire up on spotting that is needed for that. 

 

Also irritating for CV are for the allied fleet hard to hit nimble enemy cruisers with damaging AA left alive too long. Everyone and their mother fires on easy to hit BB....Even DD..... that is probably why BB complain about the continuous fires. 

 

Cruisers should ( as in RL ) engage cruisers or DD. But in this game they rather lob HE at easier to hit BB. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×