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Sigma2

PLEASE, REMOVE FRIENDLY FIRE FROM COOP BATTLES

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[JRVS]
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Hi all, 

 

It has happened too many times that a BOT or a new player (not knowing how to play properly) runs into my torps and I get banned... 

When it is a BOT it's even more shame for Wargaming because they are so dumb that they don't even move well. 

When it is a new player, I always try to explain to them how to avoid it and apologize (they usually are the first ones saying sorry and it is good that they know that they made a mistake), but it seems very unfair that, in a mode that is supposed to be a "controlled" battle, they lose their ship and I get banned for an error that they are learning to not make in the "real" battle... 

 

THE SOLUTION: REMOVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN COOP MODE. 

 

Easy, useful, and allows gaining XP in very low tiers (1.2.3) without waiting forever in the queue of standard battles, as well as new players gain knowledge of how to play. 

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Sigma2 

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[PUPSI]
Freibeuter
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9 minutes ago, Sigma2 said:

THE SOLUTION: REMOVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN COOP MODE. 

no, the real solution: You check the map before sending out torps. If an own team member is hit by your torps it is YOUR fault!

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[GEUS]
[GEUS]
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Solution: don't fire torps when allies are near. 

 

Too often I was brawling with my battleship in a coop game, and some triggerhappy cruiser or destroyed decides it's a good idea to send torps into the brawl. If I have to turn my ship and avoid those torps, do you have any idea how long it takes to turn those turrets on the target again? That is, if I even spot those torps. I'm focussing on a target and if I see an indication of torps coming from a side where I'm sure there are no enemies, I don't pay much attention to them. I'm just gonna assume my allies don't take any stupid risks.

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Beta Tester
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rule number 1 of torping

if you hit your allies then it is your fault

rule number 2 of torping

dont thorw out your torp behind or in a place where it cant hit your allies

 

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[NWP]
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15 minutes ago, Sigma2 said:

It has happened too many times that a BOT or a new player (not knowing how to play properly) runs into my torps and I get banned... 

When it is a BOT it's even more shame for Wargaming because they are so dumb that they don't even move well. 

When it is a new player, I always try to explain to them how to avoid it and apologize (they usually are the first ones saying sorry and it is good that they know that they made a mistake),

Are you serious?

 

There is ONLY one person at fault here. 

YOU

No one else.

 

If someone gets torped by you you should apologize and not try to shift responsibility.

Don't torp from the second line

Don't torp if you are going to endanger your teammates

 

End of story.

 

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[-TPF-]
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I agree. There is no team damage in scenarios and they do not suffer for it. A casual game mode like Co-op, where players are asked to play with idiot bots who torpedo their own side, have no positional sense and take no evasive action, should not result in disciplinary penalties. Especially when the disciplinary penalties are to.... lock you in co-op games. If anything team damage in co-op should lock you out of co-op games.......

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[TACHA]
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Have to disagree as I always now check for free avenues of fire to make sure I don't hit allies be they players or bots. A good habit to get into.

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[AFLET]
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I think it's a great idea. 

 

When there are challenges to get secondary hits I tend to play Bismarck in Co-op. I never shoot main guns because I want the enemies to stay alive long enough for my secondaries to rack up hits. 

 

The biggest problem is spawning in a location with a couple of friendly DDs in front of me. They then race forward and clean up before I can have much impact. 

 

If there was no friendly fire I could just obliterate them right at the start. 

 

Make it so please. 

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Have to disagree team damage in CoOp is good training, it teaches you fire discipline so hopefully you won't become of of those Hindenburg players who torp friendly BBs because they don't understand how firing from the second line is a bad idea. 

 

Although when subs are introduced and the total abandonment of any pretence of realism in the game prehaps the whole topic of friendly fire should be looked at with a view to it being removed.

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49 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I agree. There is no team damage in scenarios and they do not suffer for it. A casual game mode like Co-op, where players are asked to play with idiot bots who torpedo their own side, have no positional sense and take no evasive action, should not result in disciplinary penalties. Especially when the disciplinary penalties are to.... lock you in co-op games. If anything team damage in co-op should lock you out of co-op games.......

I agree that friendly fire damage adds nothing to Co-op and can actually severely detract from the experience, particularly given that at the moment the bots should not be allowed control over ships with torpedoes: I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but there are a lot of times recently where I've seen friendly bots launching with teammates either as close-in backstops to the line of launching or even directly between the bot and the enemy ship; as for enemy ships, I've lost count of the number of times that I've seen them launch straight into an island because their target was sailing on the other side of it. It seems like this is a new thing, in which case it's one more AI bug to add to the pile, but if the bots can't use carriers or torpedo ships (and the battleships always seem to sail straight into islands, particularly on some of the more terrain-congested maps) then I can only wonder how viable Co-op games are going to remain, particularly if player numbers start dropping any more again and friendly teams are increasingly made up of bots too.

 

15 minutes ago, HansRoaming said:

Have to disagree as I always now check for free avenues of fire to make sure I don't hit allies be they players or bots. A good habit to get into.

Also agree with this, players are responsible for checking their own arcs of fire and no ships can outrun torpedoes so it's not like a friendly can get in there after the launch unexpectedly. Actually had one recently where a particularly cretinous top-tier cruiser (who spent the game hiding behind islands at the back and opportunistically stealing kills from everyone else, as far as I could tell) sent a full volley of torps into my bottom-tier destroyer while I was knife-fighting an enemy DD, then tried to pin the blame on me. Actually saw him doing the same thing later on with another friendly right in the line of fire (and not really any enemies, he wasn't a great shot), but the game ended before anything could connect. The guy must spend a lot of time being pink.

 

4 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Have to disagree team damage in CoOp is good training, it teaches you fire discipline so hopefully you won't become of of those Hindenburg players who torp friendly BBs because they don't understand how firing from the second line is a bad idea. 

 

Although when subs are introduced and the total abandonment of any pretence of realism in the game prehaps the whole topic of friendly fire should be looked at with a view to it being removed.


Although in theory I agree with the first part of that (we all know there's little enough effective training for new players in this game as it is), it seems like the benefits are outweighed by the drawbacks. Fully on board with that second part however, team damage is either something that gets abused by griefers or else it ends up spoiling at least one, possibly two people's gaming experience because of an accident or momentary lapse in judgement. It seems as though it's only really in here because it's somehow expected to be.

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[INTRO]
[INTRO]
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I would say the other way around.

 

Shooter gets pink but the one who gets hit doesn't lose HP.

 

But I also have experienced where the hit party have no idea what's going on around him and turns, and even chases, torps that were well outside the dange-zone.

 

We're all humans. No one's perfect. Live and let live.

 

But I have seen an upswing in bots firing torps straight at friendly ships for no reason at all.

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[FLASH]
[FLASH]
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Especially in COOP Friendly Fire is absolutely fine as it is.

 

Allthough I have to admit that every now and then I accidently hit friendly ships,  even occasionally with torps fired from second line, I do not want it changed.

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4 hours ago, Sigma2 said:

When it is a new player, I always try to explain to them how to avoid it and apologize (they usually are the first ones saying sorry and it is good that they know that they made a mistake), but it seems very unfair that, in a mode that is supposed to be a "controlled" battle, they lose their ship and I get banned for an error that they are learning to not make in the "real" battle... 

 

THE SOLUTION: REMOVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN COOP MODE. 

I really hope for your sake that those newer players are still playing after your "explanation". The game has a hard enough learning curve without tutorials; new players don't need bad examples.

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Like everyone has already said above, your torps, your responsibility. 

 

That said, I still support the idea of removing friendly fire from co-op battles, at least for bots. The amount of times I've seen a bot torp an ally is just disgusting to witness. This was especially apparent in submarine battles where most of your team are bots and matches were lost because of said team-killing bots...

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[GEUS]
[GEUS]
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1 hour ago, snddim01 said:

I think it's a great idea. 

 

When there are challenges to get secondary hits I tend to play Bismarck in Co-op. I never shoot main guns because I want the enemies to stay alive long enough for my secondaries to rack up hits. 

 

The biggest problem is spawning in a location with a couple of friendly DDs in front of me. They then race forward and clean up before I can have much impact. 

 

If there was no friendly fire I could just obliterate them right at the start. 

 

Make it so please. 

 

So true. :P

 

Pesky destroyers torping all the enemies before you have a chance to complete any directives you're working on. Sometimes it's just sooooo tempting to fire at them, but I have resisted so far. :P

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1 minute ago, Purnylla said:

 

So true. :P

 

Pesky destroyers torping all the enemies before you have a chance to complete any directives you're working on. Sometimes it's just sooooo tempting to fire at them, but I have resisted so far. :P

Easy Solution 2: remove FF penalties for damaging Pink ships! 

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[PORT]
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There are enough people spamming torps all over the place as it is.  Removing friendly fire will just make it worse still.

 

If you don't want to go pink, just look around and think before you launch torps

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Welcome to the new breed of WG player...

 

OP thinks thus; If I torpedo and they hit you it's your fault because you didn't plan for the torpedoes I am going to fire...

 

God help us when the OP hits the higher tiers...

 

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2 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Welcome to the new breed of WG player...

 

OP thinks thus; If I torpedo and they hit you it's your fault because you didn't plan for the torpedoes I am going to fire...

 

God help us when the OP hits the higher tiers...

 

 

Nothing new about this attitude sadly, you meet people with exactly such a mindset at tier 10 and what's really a worry is some even have over 50% win rates (God only knows how!).

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2 hours ago, Communist_Loli said:

Like everyone has already said above, your torps, your responsibility. 

 

That said, I still support the idea of removing friendly fire from co-op battles, at least for bots. The amount of times I've seen a bot torp an ally is just disgusting to witness. This was especially apparent in submarine battles where most of your team are bots and matches were lost because of said team-killing bots...

Reminds of when miss phoenix hated cv's soo much she blapped miss lexington from existance.

Although think that was in an operaitons.

 

Probs thought she was smeggy or something.

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[NCDF]
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Vor 6 Stunden, Sigma2 sagte:

they lose their ship and I get banned for an error that they are learning to not make in the "real" battle..

You get banned because it's you that made the error, hoping for you learning to not make in the "real" battle.

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Higher than average number of friendlies torping me as I push into caps in co-op today. That and tripitz's trying to snipe from the back of the map. You can tell it's the weekend. On the plus side nearly all the games were over 100k with the odd +200k. So thanks for sitting back letting me farm second and third row torpers. :Smile_veryhappy:

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[-TPF-]
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2 hours ago, Echo_519 said:

You get banned because it's you that made the error, hoping for you learning to not make in the "real" battle.

These types of error don't happen in normal battles.

 

A large number of torp accidents in co-op games - and they are accidents, there's very little griefing - comes from the bot behaviour, most specifically their ability to detect and dodge torpedoes from launch. This means there are a lot more close range melees, with destroyers having to get 2-3k away from a battleship before they can guarantee getting a hit. This makes firing torpedoes a lot more hazardous for other ship classes, and what would be a viable pot shot in a random game, where players don't get that close to each other, now becomes a hazard and a risk of a penalty. Which is boring. 

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[SM0KE]
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8 hours ago, Sigma2 said:

THE SOLUTION: REMOVE FRIENDLY FIRE IN COOP MODE.

As others have said: nope.

 

Coop should be at least partly a training mode, and as we all (should) know - your torps, your responsibility; so, better to learn to use your torps properly in an environment where it matters less than in a proper battle.

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