[GG_HF] MassTahh Beta Tester 100 posts 10,441 battles Report post #1 Posted May 19, 2015 Current collision system seems pretty retarded to me. Ships barely touching (oposite teams) explode like a sticks of dynamite... reality is slightly different. Truth is that ship that is ramming with its bow directly into a side of other ship at 90* (at sufficient speed) most likely would sink it suffering only a minor dmg (if they are similar size) due to own structural integrity and little area of impact. Damn, even a small DD hitting BB in the side at 35 knots would probably rip it apart. Yet right now angles, contact points and speeds play no role and even nearly dead ship touching you deals ridiculous amounts of DMG. Is it only me or this crap starts getting annoying where you are 1 salvo away from sinking somebody yet they manage to sink you both... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aldramelech Beta Tester 1,753 posts Report post #2 Posted May 19, 2015 Closed beta matey, armor has only just been introduced, give it time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Userext Beta Tester 5,342 posts 2,957 battles Report post #3 Posted May 19, 2015 Current collision system seems pretty retarded to me. Ships barely touching (oposite teams) explode like a sticks of dynamite... reality is slightly different. Truth is that ship that is ramming with its bow directly into a side of other ship at 90* (at sufficient speed) most likely would sink it suffering only a minor dmg (if they are similar size) due to own structural integrity and little area of impact. Damn, even a small DD hitting BB in the side at 35 knots would probably rip it apart. Yet right now angles, contact points and speeds play no role and even nearly dead ship touching you deals ridiculous amounts of DMG. Is it only me or this crap starts getting annoying where you are 1 salvo away from sinking somebody yet they manage to sink you both... you have reached your quota of negative vote for the day 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
knaveofengland Beta Tester 190 posts 3,427 battles Report post #4 Posted May 19, 2015 lol this can be fun have managed 2 rams now should be a medal for it hint hint wg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #5 Posted May 19, 2015 Is it only me or this crap starts getting annoying where you are 1 salvo away from sinking somebody yet they manage to sink you both... If you are in such a condition, you should be aware that the enemy might try and ram you, and maneuver accordingly to deny him of this chance. It has happened to me, too, I was so busy trying to kill him off that he managed to close in and ram me, sinking both. It's all part of "situational awareness", I'm afraid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #6 Posted May 19, 2015 OP does have a point about type of contact. Ships shouldn't explode in fireworks just by mutually kissing with their bows. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaplainDMK Players 299 posts 692 battles Report post #7 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) OP does have a point about type of contact. Ships shouldn't explode in fireworks just by mutually kissing with their bows. Ramming is actually pretty lethal for ships lol, I mean we are talking about immense weight here. A perpendicular impact should definately sink both ships instantly, and side-on impacts should cause heavy damage and flooding. Since we are talking about ramming; here are pictures from KM Admiral Hipper just before she was rammed by HMS Glowworm: Glowworm is apparently making smoke from what I've read, but I find this odd since the Royal Navy switched out black smoke to white smoke since black smoke would rise quite quickly as the sun heated it up. Maybe this was only in the warmer areas. Note that Glowworm actually doesn't have a bow anymore. This is HMS Glowworm imideatly after impact And the survivors of HMS Glowworm on the hulk of the sinking destroyer. This is the picture of supposedly the Admiral Hipper after the ramming, though I have reservations since the damage seems to be quite low on the hull, with not much scraping on the upper hull: The captain of KM Admiral Hipper actually sent the Royal Navy a recommendation for the Victoria Cross for the captain of Glowworm. Edited May 19, 2015 by chaplainDMK 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[PRAVD] Orlunu Alpha Tester 1,427 posts 923 battles Report post #8 Posted May 19, 2015 Ramming is actually pretty lethal for ships lol, I mean we are talking about immense weight here. A perpendicular impact should definately sink both ships instantly, and side-on impacts should cause heavy damage and flooding. There are plenty of accounts of ships (of the type that are in game) that collided and survived, even after fairly major impacts. Loosing your bow was a big deal, but not a death sentence. It should definitely depend more on the relative weights, on the speed, and on the strength of the impact points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomer7 Beta Tester 153 posts 15,581 battles Report post #9 Posted May 19, 2015 Yes ramming feels more then a bit weird currently. Had it recently that a carrier as one of the last on his team tried to ram my Battleship, he barely managed to scrape my stern with his bow and went wonderfully up in flames while I just got some flooding. Ramming at or around the 90 degree angle should be devastating, always depending on the ships involved. A destroyer even at full speed would probably do not a lot more then damage the torpedobelt and maybe do a minor to medium flooding in that area. There are many reports of bigger ships just keeling a smaller ship over and sinking it by ramming it (if it was by accident or deliberately). Problematic for Battleships would be a right angle ram shortly behind the bow or at the stern where there is no belt as the damage there would be quite extensive, and on the stern maybe damage the rudder or propulsion shafts on that side. On the other hand a Battleship would probably snap the Destroyer either in half or just plow it under the waves when it hits him right angle in the middle. On flat angles the damage would be probably not much more then cosmetic and some bent plates when the ships scrape along, since there are no oars sticking out of the hull to snap off. Secondary armament mounted low on the hull would probably take some serious damage when two ships of similar size scrape along each other. But doing a realistic ramming damage in naval warfare is quite challenging as a lot of forces are involved. But ramming as a tactic was not really widely used in WWII. Most rams I read of were friendly ones when ships tried to dodge torpedoes or fire and ran into each other. Or when in a smokescreen or really bad weather. Just quickly looked up the Hipper-Glowworm incident. Seems that Hipper maybe tried to ram the Glowworm but was too slow and so got struck by the Destroyer. But again it happened because Hipper emerged from Glowworms smokescreen and both ships were really close. But it shows that a small ship can do no really fatal damage to a big one. The collision broke of Glowworms bow, and while Hipper took on 500 tons of water she was not considered seriously damaged by that accident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #10 Posted May 19, 2015 There are plenty of accounts of ships (of the type that are in game) that collided and survived, even after fairly major impacts. Loosing your bow was a big deal, but not a death sentence. It should definitely depend more on the relative weights, on the speed, and on the strength of the impact points. That's true; there are plenty of ships who had their bows destroyed (for example by torpedoes) which survived. And I guess that there is something to be said that it's kind of strange that even a glancing blow can destroy both ships (or at least seriously damage one at full health)... but can damage be varied accordingly to relative speed and angle without taxing too much the system? I'm no expert, so I can't know... shells are one thing, but ships... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TUD1] Captain_Edwards Beta Tester 1,182 posts Report post #11 Posted May 19, 2015 How about a New Orleans with no bow at all, still sailing merrily along? Gota love bulkheads. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #12 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) How about a New Orleans with no bow at all, still sailing merrily along? Gota love bulkheads. Um... I think she got one of the worst cases in which a ship nevertheless managed to reach port... entire bow (with the forward 8-inch turret) gone, reduced to 2-knot speed, forced to sail backwards... somewhat surprised they managed to get her to a dock. I don't think that counts as sailing that merrily... Edited May 19, 2015 by Historynerd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #13 Posted May 19, 2015 How about a New Orleans with no bow at all, still sailing merrily along? Gota love bulkheads. Hurray for Naganami! And they keep saying that torps are OP in this game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #14 Posted May 19, 2015 Hurray for Naganami! And they keep saying that torps are OP in this game. Um... could you please cite a source where the name of the responsible of that is detailed? I can't find anything about it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #15 Posted May 19, 2015 Um... could you please cite a source where the name of the responsible of that is detailed? I can't find anything about it... Battle of Tassafaronga. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-END-] SgtToad Beta Tester 100 posts 5,912 battles Report post #16 Posted May 19, 2015 Ramming is completely screwed and needs fixing. If you hit the enemy with bow in their midships they should suffer big dmg, you small dmg. Currently you both sink, making ramming pointless. Def needs fixing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #17 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Battle of Tassafaronga. I knew that, I just wished to know which author or which report says that it was the Naganami that torpedoed the New Orleans. Edited May 19, 2015 by Historynerd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters 2,556 posts 1,924 battles Report post #18 Posted May 19, 2015 I certainly hope that the ramming mechanism will be reworked at some point. But to be honest, I don't personally care much either way. I have only ever rammed an enemy once, and that was during alpha when I had just joined at rammed a a full HP enemy BB with my own full HP BB. Both sank. That was me back then not knowing what I was doing. Ever since then I haven't rammed anybody as I find guns and torpedoes to be the best way to kill someone, and I am certainly not stupid enough to put myself in the way of an enemy trying to ram me. So the lack of a proper ramming mechanic doesn't really bother me. Still, I am sure this will be fixed in the future as we get closer to launch. Guess we can only hope that it will be sooner rather than later, but it deffinetly will be fixed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Userext Beta Tester 5,342 posts 2,957 battles Report post #19 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Ramming is completely screwed and needs fixing. If you hit the enemy with bow in their midships they should suffer big dmg, you small dmg. Currently you both sink, making ramming pointless. Def needs fixing. ramming is not an option in a fight if you want to ram people go play wot with E-50M ships that takes a big hole to the middle of them practicly will sink and split into half Edited May 19, 2015 by Userext Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Historynerd Beta Tester 4,249 posts 848 battles Report post #20 Posted May 19, 2015 ramming is not an option in a fight if you want to ram people go play wot with E-50M ships that takes a big hole to the middle of them practicly will sink and split into half Um... a ship can be holed and capsize without breaking in half... only if the main structures of the ship are compromised (because of an explosion of a certain magnitude, or perhaps because of the seawater pressure after the sinking) will the ship break in half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OVanBruce Alpha Tester 2,543 posts 16,031 battles Report post #21 Posted May 19, 2015 I knew that, I just wished to know which author or which report says that it was the Naganami that torpedoed the New Orleans. Well, it wasn't that she torped New Orleans but that she was the flagship. Plus she's cute in Kancolle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Userext Beta Tester 5,342 posts 2,957 battles Report post #22 Posted May 19, 2015 Um... a ship can be holed and capsize without breaking in half... only if the main structures of the ship are compromised (because of an explosion of a certain magnitude, or perhaps because of the seawater pressure after the sinking) will the ship break in half. ramming is still not an option Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SH33P] Pegasus2022 Beta Tester 128 posts 5,390 battles Report post #23 Posted May 19, 2015 Damage to KG V after accidentally ramming HMS Punjabi (DD) in fog, which was sliced in two and immediately sank. It's beta, so ramming isn't modeled yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[T-B-G] elef51 Beta Tester 7 posts 4,865 battles Report post #24 Posted May 19, 2015 And ramming is part of the game you get flag for doing it so its not wrong ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaplainDMK Players 299 posts 692 battles Report post #25 Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) There are plenty of accounts of ships (of the type that are in game) that collided and survived, even after fairly major impacts. Loosing your bow was a big deal, but not a death sentence. It should definitely depend more on the relative weights, on the speed, and on the strength of the impact points. A direct perpendicular impact would almost certainly cause massive damage for any kind of ship. A destroyer still weighs 1000-3000 tons, so going at 30-40 knots, that's an enormous ammount of energy. Even if the ship doesn't sink, the impact would cause massive structural damage to both ships, which might float, but certainly wouldn't be capable of fighting anymore. For example when Leipzig collided with Prinz Eugen, the two ships were stuck together for a day. Prinz Eugen had to be in repairs for a month or two, while Leipzig was written off, just kept floating in port. Though yeah, cruisers hitting Destroyers would probably suffer rather minimal damage, so I guess theres that. But I agree about "less perpendicular" impacts, for a lack of a better word. If two ships scrape against each other, you should have flooding happen on both ships, but sinking generally wouldn't occur. Edited May 19, 2015 by chaplainDMK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
