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@MedvedevTD @MrConway @Tuccy

 

I already asked this question here but it seems that no one working for WG-WOWS answers questions posted there:

 

 

Since the question I asked is related to a mod and since this mod part of the forum seems to get more attention from WOWS Developers I will post my question here.

 

Hopefully I can get an answer to my question in the mod part of the forum.

 

I would like to know what the Dark Grey square-shaped objects are supposed to be that cover roughly two-thirds of the GRAF ZEPPELIN Flight Deck on the default ("vanilla") WOWS GRAF ZEPPELIN model/textures. Can WOWS Developers please clarify where these objects come from and what is their purpose?

 

They seem to be an invention of the WOWS Developers that have no real world basis. Photographic evidence and the original GRAF ZEPPELIN plans do not show these objects.

 

I need the data for my WOWS AUTHENTIC GRAF ZEPPELIN mod and for modelling purposes in general.

 

My most recent AUTHENTIC GRAF ZEPPELIN mod can be found on www.nexusmods.com

 

 

 

Some images to make clear to what I am referring to.

 

In the image underneath the many Dark Grey square-shaped objects on the Flight Deck of the WOWS GRAF ZEPPELIN are clearly visible

 

 

Spoiler

NKD7UTH.jpg

 

 

Square shaped objects were visible on the steel deck of the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN, but that was before the wooden planking had been fitted. Here are two images of the steel deck of the GRAF ZEPPELIN before the wooding planking was fitted.

 

 

Spoiler

dE2Zql4.jpgjw90fKu.jpg

 

 

 

These square shaped objects were no longer visible when the wooden planking had been fitted on the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN however.

 

Here are images of the Flight Deck of the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN after most of the wooden planking had been fitted.

 

Flight Deck in front of the Bridge:

 

 

Spoiler

PKKkRkL.jpg

 

 

Flight Deck looking from stern to stem:

 

 

Spoiler

mc2wmOn.jpg

 

 

Flight Deck looking from stern to stem, starboardside:

 

 

Spoiler

q32570p.jpg

 

 

Flight Deck looking from stern to stem, portside:

 

 

Spoiler

ZUfyS8n.jpg

 

 

Flight Deck looking from stern to stem, portside:

 

 

Spoiler

5ojrzqj.jpg

 

 

Here is a post war image with a member of the USSR military on the Flight Deck of the GRAF ZEPPELIN, looking from stern to stem:

 

 

Spoiler

Lanw5ad.jpg

 

 

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On 7/4/2020 at 4:52 AM, Odo_Toothless said:

Your mod is really impressive :cap_like:

 

Thanks. A lot of time and attention to detail went into making the mod, more than the changes implemented might suggest at first glance. Especially getting the dimensions of everything exactly right required detailed calculations and these even revealed some dimensional errors in the WOWS 3D GRAF ZEPPELIN model.

 

All in all, the main thing left to do in the mod is to get rid of those Dark Grey squares on the Flight Deck. I have still not removed them because I want to know why the WOWS Developers put them there and because it is a lot of work in three files to get rid of them properly.

 

It is a pity that it is almost impossible to get a straight answer over something so trivial from WG-WOWS staff.

 

---

 

Without the excellent book by Ulrich Israel and the booklet by Richard Wagner and Manfred Wilske the mod could not have been made. Their detailed data was key, but also the images of the superlative, superb GRAF ZEPPELIN model made by Richard Wagner and Robert Wilske who used 1:100 and 1:300 original Kriegsmarine plans of the GRAF ZEPPELIN to make their model. These two books are really worth buying on the subject.

 

The missing "Fangseil" is a rather embarrassing omission in the default ("vanilla") WOWS GRAF ZEPPELIN. For example here are images of the "Fangseil" (Crash Barrier) on the Wagner-Wilske model. I added the "Fangseil" in my mod (although alas not as a true 3D object):

 

Spoiler

Portside view of part of the "Fangseil":

oCIUnOn.png

 

Starboardside view of the "Fangseil":

oscnoun.png

 

1-1593618254-1370953964.jpeg

 

 

I would like to improve the Aircraft Salvage Crane on the WOWS model to what it should be, but it would involve a lot of effort to implement that. Here are the original Kriegsmarine plans of the pre-1942 (upper drawing) and 1942+ (bottom drawing) GRAF ZEPPELIN, the difference between the Cranes is obvious:

 

Spoiler

JkDKvtB.jpg

 

In WOWS the Aircraft Salvage Crane dangerously points towards landing aircraft, interferes with the "Fangseil" (Crash Barrier) and rests on the Flight Deck, all of which is incorrect.

 

Spoiler

BBCZY3n.png

 

This is how it should be (note not only the different rest position but also the difference in Crane design) , again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:

 

Spoiler

oscnoun.png

 

u5NNbHO.png

 

Some of the major errors in the WOWS model of the GRAF ZEPPELIN are the missing radar antennas/sets mounted underneath the Flight Deck, the incorrect radars antennas/sets mounted left and right of the catapults and the incorrect radars mounted in the foremast. I would like to improve all that but it would involve a lot of effort to implement that.

 

Here is part of the original Kriegsmarine drawing of the GRAF ZEPPELIN (1942 status). The radar antennas/sets mounted underneath the end of the Flight Deck are indicated by dotted lines:

 

Spoiler

qVSfKNH.png

 

In total there should be around 10 radar antennas/sets (marked in red on this drawing by Siegfried Breyer):

 

Spoiler

m3yWbRT.jpg

 

This is how it all should look, again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:
 

Spoiler

IDpT0VX.png

 

FSHCYZk.png

 

V4E3rsR.png

 

pPQUfwH.png

 

 

The FuMB "Sumatra" (ESM) sets on the Fighter Aircraft Control Positiono are also missing, and that too I would like to improve but it would involve a lot of effort to implement that, again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:
 

Spoiler

 

WcZO2Vp.png

 

2bNA3xV.png

 

 

A rather embarrassing omission in the default ("vanilla") WOWS GRAF ZEPPELIN are the missing Compressed-Air Cylinders without which the Compressed-Air Catapults could not work, as well as the incorrectly implemented return rail system for the starter cars, alas I see no way to correct any of that in the mod:

 

Spoiler

82aUuj6.png

 

This is what it should look like, again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:

 

Spoiler

 

tGVogn5.png

 

3GpWtk7.png

 

 

Another embarrassing omission in the default ("vanilla") WOWS GRAF ZEPPELIN are the two missing Starter Car Elevators on the Flight Deck without which the Starter Cars would not be able to be returned to the Flight Deck for launching aircraft from the Compressed-Air Catapults. I could however add those in the mod:

 

Spoiler

Tel1oJX.jpg

 

1-1593618127-669311626.jpeg

 

The area left/right of the Catapults is also in need of correction, but I see no way to implement that in the mod , again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:

 

Spoiler

KMhHkjD.png

 

Ot5Trvh.png

 

I would like to have implemented the cable support holders in 3D and other arrestor gear improvements , but I see no way to implement that in the mod, again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:

 

Spoiler

qqiddjG.png

 

Adding the ship's bell on the navigation bridge would be nice, but I see no way to implement that in the mod , again images from the Wagner-Wilske model:
 

Spoiler

 

NwIeppc.png

 

jysLZrU.png

 

 

This is the ship's bell of the real world Heavy Cruiser ADMIRAL HIPPER:

 

Spoiler

BUftHXB.jpg

 

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38 minutes ago, Widar_Thule said:

It is a pity that it is almost impossible to get a straight answer over something so trivial from WG-WOWS staff.

XaXa. You are a dreamer, who is doing fantastic job btw. :-). Answer ? Probably only like this: Relax - it's just a game. If You want to do something, count only on yourself and mayby some other players help.

 

If You think those objects are wrong, that feel free to remove them. It's Your mod. But You can ask, why they are still in standard game ? Look at much simplier case: ex. inverted emblem on one side of Błyskawica Szarża camo, which is still not corrected (if it ever happens). Such cosmetic fixes also require some work and apparently there are not enough people to do that. Just like to give an answer to your question.

 

image.png.5953bb15b8b26851b7264d679da768e5.png

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3 hours ago, Odo_Toothless said:

Look at much simplier case: ex. inverted emblem on one side of Błyskawica Szarża camo, which is still not corrected (if it ever happens). Such cosmetic fixes also require some work and apparently there are not enough people to do that. Just like to give an answer to your question.

 

image.png.5953bb15b8b26851b7264d679da768e5.png

 

Was that actually made by WOWS Developers?

 

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On 7/6/2020 at 3:58 PM, TheKingOfUm said:

I always guessed that those objects are supposed to be attachment points for fixing equipment and planes on the deck. Apparently they're called padeyes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padeye

 

That is what I first thought, but on closer inspection of the three texture files in which they are present the idea seems to be that the Dark Grey squares are objects that are ON the Flight Deck. In other words they seem to have been made to represent 3D objects that protrude above the Flight Deck and which have light/reflection qualities. So I more get the idea that they are supposed to represent some sort of lights/reflectors.

 

In any event padeyes they are not. Padeyes have no light/reflection properties and they are integrated into the Flight Deck and thus do not protrude above it as you can see on the images of padeyes on real world USA Carriers for example.

 

Moreover the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN did not have padeyes, not in the 1:100 and 1:300 Kriegsmarine design drawings that I have seen and not in the photographs of the Flight Deck of the real world ship that I posted in my first post in this topic. GRAF ZEPPELIN would not have used Deck Parks for which padeyes might have been useful because of the harsh climate/weather/seas in the North Atlantic and because of the huge two deck hanger space she had which allowed her to store aircraft in her hangers that the USA Carriers had to store on the Flight Deck due to them having usually only one hanger deck.

 

So I more get the idea that the Dark Grey squares are an error. The two images of the steel deck of the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN, which I posted in the first post in this topic, show square steel objects that were probably intended for fixating the wooden planking. When the wooden planking was however fitted on GRAF ZEPPELIN those square steel objects were no longer visible. The real world images of GRAF ZEPPELIN with wooden planking, posted in my first post in this topic, are mostly from private sources while the images without wooden planking were made by the shipyard and stored in German state naval archives. And data in German state naval archives was purloined after WW2 and sent to the USSR and is used by WOWS Developers.

 

If WOWS Developers only used the shipyard images of GRAF ZEPPELIN and not the private source images that I posted above then it is safe to assume that they never saw any images of the Flight Deck of the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN with wooden planking.

 

And then that might explain why they put the Dark Grey squares on: a misinterpretation of shipyard photographs of GRAF ZEPPELIN without wooden planking.

 

Many things on the default ("vanilla") GRAF ZEPPELIN WOWS are also incorrect/missing so it is not as if no mistakes have been made. If a mistake was made with regard to the Dark Grey squares on the Flight Deck then that is not really a problem, but I do need the information for the research I am doing on this ship.

 

On the GRAF ZEPPELIN B the Dark Grey squares stand out particularly well, and when looking at the following two images one can easily get the impressing that they are meant to  represent 3D objects that protrude above the Flight Deck and which have light/reflection qualities. Note that the "true" steel objects on the Flight Deck of GRAF ZEPPELIN B, like wind shields and steel rails etcetera, have no such strong light/reflection qualities as the Dark Grey squares do. And if the Dark Grey squares on the Flight Deck of GRAF ZEPPELIN B have such strong light/reflection qualities as can be seen on the two images below then they cannot be "padeyes". Here are the two images of GRAF ZEPPELIN B:

 

Spoiler

b804cfc0-14d0-11ea-a24e-38eaa735f4cc.jpg

 

b7c44a68-14d0-11ea-8e6a-38eaa735f4cc.jpg

 

found here:

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/de/news/history/black-armada/

 

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