what is that [edited]!?

[MNR1978]

I have played a tier X battle this morning and got wonder that a full Secondary build Georgia did not do any damage from several secondary hit to French tier IX Alsace and USSR tier X Kremlin!!!
 

I engaged Alsace as first target while he was full broadside to me and engaged Kremlin as second target that was angled about 75 degrees, the most insane thing that all Secondary  hit did not do any damage to both enemy ships!
I tried to check that ships armor and Georgia's Secondary  effectiveness in Training mode and Interesting thing that all Secondary  hit done a great damage on both Alsace and Kremlin while I was configuring them as high skill moving and arming and they were angled to me about 45 degrees 

 

 

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

[PeteEarthling]

I guess that the small DP guns of your fantasy BB are just too weak to deal any damage to other fantasy BB, at least when hitting their armor belts.

[Excavatus]

Do you have IFHE on your captain? 

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, MNR1978 said:

I have played a tier X battle this morning and got wonder that a full Secondary build Georgia did not do any damage from several secondary hit to French tier IX Alsace and USSR tier X Kremlin!!!
 

I engaged Alsace as first target while he was full broadside to me and engaged Kremlin as second target that was angled about 75 degrees, the most insane thing that all Secondary  hit did not do any damage to both enemy ships!
I tried to check that ships armor and Georgia's Secondary  effectiveness in Training mode and Interesting thing that all Secondary  hit done a great damage on both Alsace and Kremlin while I was configuring them as high skill moving and arming and they were angled to me about 45 degrees 

 

 

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

I suggest you look at the penetration of the secondary guns and then you look at the armor viewer how much of your target plating is viable target, also I belive the secs still aim "center mass" making even less hits count

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Did none of the people answering here read what the OP wrote?

So I guess I try to help him...

 

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

Because compared to a "live" battle with 90+ hits and 0 damage the secondary guns did quite good damage in the training room. What is the reason for this? Is there a difference between live battle mechanics and training room mechanics?

 

So.. question probably made clearer a bit. Still people will have to read and understand it.. which might be a big problem for many, considering the kind of posts one sees in this forum...

[Yedwy]

Just now, Deckeru_Maiku said:

Did none of the people answering here read what the OP wrote?

So I guess I try to help him...

 

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

Because compared to a "live" battle with 90+ hits and 0 damage the secondary guns did quite good damage in the training room. What is the reason for this? Is there a difference between live battle mechanics and training room mechanics?

 

So.. question probably made clearer a bit. Still people will have to read and understand it.. which might be a big problem for many, considering the kind of posts one sees in this forum...

Yes thee is bots dont angle esp stationary ones

[Deckeru_Maiku]

1 minute ago, Yedwy said:

Yes thee is bots dont angle esp stationary ones

 

See how easy it is to give a constructive answer that really gives an explanation people might be able to understand ;)

Although the OP wrote, that the Alsace wasn't angled, but broadsided... but for that case your previous post gives the explanation...

[DFens_666]

4 hours ago, MNR1978 said:

I engaged Alsace as first target while he was full broadside to me and engaged Kremlin as second target that was angled about 75 degrees,

 

Secondaries aim at the center part of the ship (basicly at the citadel). If they are broadside, and you are too close, you will shatter everything in their belt. You can only hit the superstructure to deal damage, but if the Secondaries are too accurate, they wont accidently hit it.

 

Angle makes a difference

distance makes a difference

if the conditions werent the same in the training room, then thats why the outcome was different.

[Panocek]

2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

2 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Do you have IFHE on your captain? 

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

IFHE would have made absolutely no difference against two battleships..

 

Except reducing fire damage of course!

[Miscommunication_dept]

4 hours ago, MNR1978 said:

I have played a tier X battle this morning and got wonder that a full Secondary build Georgia did not do any damage from several secondary hit to French tier IX Alsace and USSR tier X Kremlin!!!
 

I engaged Alsace as first target while he was full broadside to me and engaged Kremlin as second target that was angled about 75 degrees, the most insane thing that all Secondary  hit did not do any damage to both enemy ships!
I tried to check that ships armor and Georgia's Secondary  effectiveness in Training mode and Interesting thing that all Secondary  hit done a great damage on both Alsace and Kremlin while I was configuring them as high skill moving and arming and they were angled to me about 45 degre

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

What range were you from these ships?Massachusetts secondaries need rangeto work so they land on the superstructure.

 

[Uglesett]

5 hours ago, MNR1978 said:

I want to know is there something wrong with this game or there is a difference layout between Random and Training battle mode in the game!?

Hard to say anything concrete without watching a replay of the battle, but US 5" trebuchets can only directly damage superstructure of high tier BBs (even with IFHE, which generally isn't worth it since you'll face too few enemies where the improved penetration makes a difference and you take a significant hit to fire chance).

 

Depending on the geometry of the situation it can be almost impossible to score those superstructure hits. Secondaries will aim for the water line, and at close range with manual secondaries most of the shells will go too low to hit the superstructure and just shatter. At longer ranges  more dispersion and higher shell arcs will mean more shells by pure chance will hit the superstructure.

 

Angling also plays a role, since your shells will tend to encounter heavily armoured turrets and barbettes on their way to the squishy superstructure if the target is pointing their nose or hindquarters in your general direction.

 

So at least when it comes to French and US secondaries, you're better off foregoing direct damage and going for fires.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

3 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Do you have IFHE on your captain? 

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

Is this right? What is the preferred captains skills for the Massachusetts then, as I have a 19 pointer on mine yet I cannot enable IFHE, just wondering out of curiosity.

[Russia_Moth_Her_Lamp]

The problem can be the distance of the fight. Too close, your secondaries will hit the hull, without the penetration to do damage...

This is why I cry they deleted the AP, especially on IJN. Nagato and Amagi were sooooo powerful in close range. But it was the old days.

[Hades_warrior]

In case of Alsace, im not sure what to say. (server lag?)

But, in Kremlin's case it does make sense. He is the most armored ship in the game, so small caliber of secondaries from US BB's ricochets every time seems right especially if Kremlin was tanking bow-on your attack.

 

btw showing players names from battles and naming them is not allowed on the forum as far as I know.

[DFens_666]

Just now, Hades_warrior said:

In case of Alsace, im not sure what to say. (server lag?)

But, in Kremlin's case it does make sense. He is the most armored ship in the game, so small caliber of secondaries from US BB's ricochets every time seems right especially if Kremlin was tanking bow-on your attack.

 

btw showing players names from battles and naming them is not allowed on the forum as far as I know.

 

1. You could take T6 BBs and they wouldnt get damaged either, the pen is just too low. Alsace has regular 32mm hightier BB armor, which is enough to shatter Georgias secondaries.

2. How is that shaming

[Malim0o]

Il y a 4 heures, Excavatus a dit :

Do you have IFHE on your captain? 

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

It's a joke , right ?

[Commander_Ericson]

53 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

Is this right? What is the preferred captains skills for the Massachusetts then, as I have a 19 pointer on mine yet I cannot enable IFHE, just wondering out of curiosity.

With IFHE the massa can pen 26mm. Which is good for 25mm cruiser and 26mm T7 and lower BB bow and stern plating. But that's it. So IFHE is a costly captain skill for being able to pen these whilst halving your fire chance of the secondaries, which works on all plating.

 

The lack of pen and the already very good accuracy is also the reason many say that manual secondary isn't worth speccing on American secondary bb's. As this just means they aim more at a enemy ships centre and you end up with more shatters. Not speccing it allows for firing at multiple targets and and possibly a great chance of hitting the superstructure at closer ranges

[DFens_666]

5 minutes ago, Commander_Ericson said:

The lack of pen and the already very good accuracy is also the reason many say that manual secondary isn't worth speccing on American secondary bb's. As this just means they aim more at a enemy ships centre and you end up with more shatters. Not speccing it allows for firing at multiple targets and and possibly a great chance of hitting the superstructure at closer ranges

 

On a side note:

I tested this with Massachusetts, and the secondaries are still better with manual secondaries even at broadside targets at 5km. I didnt test closer ranges, because i wouldnt say those are usual engagement ranges (even 5km is kinda close already). Not to mention, at even closerranges the possibility of rams and drivebys is much higher, so you should count on your mainguns, not on the secondaries.

And against angled targets, manual secondaries are MUCH superior.

 

5km flat broadside WITHOUT manual sec, that took 2:02.

 

5km flat broadside WITH manual secondaries, which took 1:43.

 

Even with better fire RNG, the test without manual sec was slower. So without fires, the difference would get even bigger.

Did the same test on a bow on Algerie, with manual sec it died before 2 mins. Without manual sec, i stopped after 3 minutes while still at >6k HP.

[Commander_Ericson]

35 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

On a side note:

I tested this with Massachusetts, and the secondaries are still better with manual secondaries even at broadside targets at 5km. I didnt test closer ranges, because i wouldnt say those are usual engagement ranges (even 5km is kinda close already). Not to mention, at even closerranges the possibility of rams and drivebys is much higher, so you should count on your mainguns, not on the secondaries.

And against angled targets, manual secondaries are MUCH superior.

 

5km flat broadside WITHOUT manual sec, that took 2:02.

 

5km flat broadside WITH manual secondaries, which took 1:43.

 

Even with better fire RNG, the test without manual sec was slower. So without fires, the difference would get even bigger.

Did the same test on a bow on Algerie, with manual sec it died before 2 mins. Without manual sec, i stopped after 3 minutes while still at >6k HP.

26mm plating....with IFHE? What about the same thing against a t8 bb?

[DFens_666]

29 minutes ago, Commander_Ericson said:

Not a shocker consider that's a t7 bb with 26mm plating. Go try the same thing against a t8 bb

 

You still have more hits = more chance to set fires. The secondaries will hit the center all the time even without manual sec, they wont stray to bow/aft section enough to cause fires there.

More direct damage + more hits to cause fires = better to skill hit

 

but why argue with feelings when i tested it. You can play without manual sec, i play with. But atleast i did a test which convinced me, that one way is better than the other. And taking a BB which you could pen makes more sense to see the difference. Why should i take a BB which i cant pen? It doesnt tell me good enough whats actually happening.

Nowadays, you can leave IFHE out of it aswell, since you just lose so much firechance.

[Saltface]

1 hour ago, Hades_warrior said:

btw showing players names from battles and naming them is not allowed on the forum as far as I know.

only if you name and shame, the OP is not shaming anyone.

His post is 100% legit.

[MNR1978]

6 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

 

See how easy it is to give a constructive answer that really gives an explanation people might be able to understand ;)

Although the OP wrote, that the Alsace wasn't angled, but broadsided... but for that case your previous post gives the explanation...

Really! I configured both ships as high arming and mobility and get close to him about 5 km witch that was a distance in a random battle that I fought with Alsace and Kremlin. 
Both enemy boats angled to me about 45 degrees, exactly, they were heading bow to me and I was broadside to them! but still did the damage with secondary in Training mode!

And I know the difference between Live and AI battles, but I was going to find any difference in armor and penetration value of ships in Live and Training mode

[MNR1978]

6 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Do you have IFHE on your captain? 

Because US BBs really need IFHE for secondary builds.. 

yes I have it

[MNR1978]

8 hours ago, PeteEarthling said:

I guess that the small DP guns of your fantasy BB are just too weak to deal any damage to other fantasy BB, at least when hitting their armor belts.

In both modes (Random and Training) I get so close to enemy ships that about 5 km but in Random secondary did not any effect that did in Training, I am not going to say that enemy distance and angle was the same but that was similar