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Tanatoy

ST 0.9.7, Unique Upgrades

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[WG]
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We continue to work on Unique Upgrades (UU) and now we’re ready to share some changes to the existing UUs and some new ones.  

 

Read the text.

 

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

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ST 0.9.7, Unique Upgrades

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

We continue to work on Unique Upgrades (UU) and now we’re ready to share some changes to the existing UUs and some new ones.  

 

Updating current upgrades: 

X Z-52, Slot 5 

 
Current upgrade
  • Added bonus lowering torpedo detectability by 10%.

The UU will strengthen X Z-52 as a torpedo boat, while lowering her efficiency on key areas due to a smaller bonus to detectability in comparison to the standard concealment upgrade. 

 

 X Grozovoi, Slot 6 

 
Current upgrade
  • Torpedo tubes reload time penalty increased from +10% to +20%.

The UU offers artillery-focused gameplay. The upgrade was too effective, and the penalty to the main battery traverse speed had no significant impact because of the ship’s already good base value, thus her torpedo tubes reload time penalty was increased.  

 

X Moskva, Slot 6 

 
Current upgrade
  • Bonus lowering maximum dispersion of main battery shells lowered from -11% to -7%;
  • Main battery traverse speed penalty increased from -13% to -20%.

The change to the UU offers a clear choice between upgrades for damage per minute, for range increase, and for accuracy 

 

X Minotaur, Slot 5 

 
Current upgrade
  • Removed the bonus, which increased dispersion shells fired by enemies attacking your ship by 10%;
  • Added bonus which lowers the reload time for all consumables by 10%.

The UU allows the ship to stay in her smoke screen for a significant time while moving at ¼ speed, and the bonus to the reload time of her consumables both improves her overall survivability and efficiency, and makes the UU useful with any build. 

 

X Zaō, Slot 6 

 
Current upgrade
  • Removed the bonus which lowered rudder shift time by 20%.

The upgrade was too universal, empowering different parameters of the ship. In its current form, the UU will be effective for playing on the open water using long range of main caliber guns.  

 

X Yamato, Slot 6 

 
Current upgrade
  • Removed the bonus which lowered the main battery reload time by 6%
  • Main battery traverse speed penalty reduced from -19% to -13%

This upgrade gave two bonuses: DPM and accuracy, and it was too effective. After the change, the UU will offer a clear choice between these two parameters.  

 

New upgrades: 

X Daring (Slot 5) 

  • –10% to the torpedo tubes reload time 
  • +15% to maximum torpedo damage 

Currently, X Daring is a versatile destroyer with a slight edge to an artillery-focused playstyle. The UU will suggest shifting that edge towards torpedoes. With this upgrade, she will thrive further away from caps, with an emphasis on torpedoes and attacks from within smoke.  

 

X Kléber (Slot 6) 

  • -20% to ship's detectability 
  • + 80% to main battery reload time 

The UU offers an alternative to X Kléber’s artillery focused gameplay: high-speed, close-range torpedo boat with quick torpedo reload. The ship’s detectability will be comparable to that of other destroyers at the same Tier, but the ship will lose a significant part of her artillery damage per minute.  

 

X Harugumo (Slot 5) 

  • +30% to smoke dispersion time 
  • +100% to smoke generator action time 
  • + 1 consumable's charge 

The UU improves the main playstyle of the ship at the cost of detectability and lowered efficiency in fighting for key areas. The UU allows X Harugumo to stay hidden in smoke while moving at ¼ speed.  

 

X Kremlin (Slot 6) 

  • -18% to main battery reload time 
  • -12% to main battery firing range 
  • -1 charge of consumables

Modernization offers a more aggressive playstyle, in which the ship sacrifices its survivabilityin exchange for rate of fire bonus.  

 

X Audacious (Slot 6) 

  • -15% to ship's detectability 
  • +20% to engine boost duration 
  • -50% time for the engine to reach full power
  • -30% rudder shift time

UU allows the ship to be closer to the enemy, thus increasing the frequency of plane attacks. But the risk of being detected and becoming the target of focused fire is also increased.  

 

X Midway, Slot 6 

  • +10% to bombers cruising speed 
  • +10% to HE bombs damage 

Instead of generally improving all plane types, the UU offers an emphasis on bombers, increasing their speed and bomb damage. 

 

X Hakuryū, Slot 6 

  • +15% to maximum planes speed
  • -20% to engine boost duration 

The best effect the UU will have is directly before an attack, by significantly increasing the planes’ speed and lowering the time they spend in the AA zone. At the same time, the distance covered with the engine boost active remains roughly the same as without the UU. 

 

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Shame about the Zao UU, I really liked better rudder. That ship really needs something and I don't think its UU was that strong.

 

Entire concept of NTC 2.0 seems like a waste of resources and probably should be dropped. Like many things in wows really.

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[SWAMP]
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GREAT JOB WEEEGEEE! It's a trash legendary now...

 

Wanna more vodka??? :etc_swear:

 

image.png.c3b5befb3ebc5ca7e998beabab0c1c0e.png

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Beta Tester
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Audacious one would be interesting, but they locked it behind RB which still requires actively dropping ships entirely to grind and sod that.

 

I honestly do not get why the research bureau has you literally having to entirely reset the line to get access back to ships you already ground out. They could easily just impose the credit/xp condition to "unlock" RB grind on a ship and have it require you have done that on the whole line to get your reward.

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Weekend Tester
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Z-52 is bad and it gets a UU that attempts to turn it into the worst torpedo boat in the game. Nice.

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[FAF]
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27 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

We continue to work on Unique Upgrades (UU) and now we’re ready to share some changes to the existing UUs and some new ones.  

 

Read the text.

 

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

Well done WG you are totally screwing up most of the ships thumps up for that and we are loving you for that (irony can accur)

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[SHAD]
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Yamato’s change isn’t terrible.

 

Moskva’s looks very bad.

 

Kremlin’s is interesting though. Big buff in reload at a big cost to survivability. 
 

Zao’s is bad, I’ll probably demount it.

 

I applaud that Wargaming is spending so much time producing these things that I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy.

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Quality Poster, In AlfaTesters
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Changed Mods
Z-52 - I still probably wont use this mod because Z-52s torps just are not a good baseline for torpedo oriented improvements.

Grozovoi - It's a fair nerf I suppose, the mod is still worth using for those who would have considered MBM3.

Moskva - Is it still better than other mods? I think so.

Minotaur - This is still a niche that I don't think many people will use but I guess this change makes it better than it was? I just think people would rather have better concealment outside of smoke rather than augment how the smoke works.

Zao - Ouch. Well you certainly balanced this mod, I think this really makes it an even decision between this and GFCSM2.

Yamato - So the decision boils down to 7% dispersion or 12% reload. That's quite a difficult one. Like Zao maybe this mod is actually balanced now.

 

These mod changes mostly make more sense than the first batch that was published. But now, other than Minotaurs which changes some functionality, these "balanced" mods are not worth 19,200 RP to get something that is equally effective as existing mods. Z-52s is still not worth the investment, Moskvas is still strong, the rest are not worth the effort. I think the concept of Grozovois mod, which provides a stronger bonus relative to existing mods but adds a new penalty that polarises the upgrade makes them more compelling to use. Zaos mod, for example, is just not really worth the effort...

 

New Mods

Daring - A torp mod for a DD with 35knt speed and 10km torp range which requires it to play with 6.6km concealment. Not for me.

Kleber - What on earth is this. 6.2km concealment but reload time of 12.6 seconds?! That is ~77k DPM, this is absurdly low. To have the concealment to deliver 6 torps from either side? This is an absurd gimmick.

Harugumo - So this converts Harugumos smoke from 20s action time 97s dispersion time (for a maximum total duration of ~117s) into 40s action time and 126s dispersion time? @Tanatoy I think this is a typo, if this was meant to become a creeping smoke surely this is meant to be +30% dispersion radius not action time.

Kremlin - Reduce the gun range from 20.68 to 18.20 in order to reduce the reload from 33s to 27s. Under the right circumstances this is absolutely worth equipping. I'm not sure reducing consumables is the right way to lower this ships survivability as this penalty will not even take effect until later in the game... Increase consumable reload time instead.

Audacious - +20% engine boost duration versus +5% plane speed... I am not sure which is worth more. The improvements for the CV hull are minor but are all still beneficial...

Midway - This is a mandatory UU, it is easily better than all other options
Hakuryu - Again I would gladly take this over FCM2.

 

But no one cares about any of these because we won't regrind them via RB anyway.

 

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[FAF]
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Well WG i guess that i better demount all my LU because they are more or less trash now thx WG :etc_swear::etc_swear:

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[PANEU]
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AUDACIOUS

Is it really worth it to be closer to the front line, while sacrificing plane HP, especially after the DD air concealment changes in the future? No.

This UU is useless, I cant think of any minor change how to make the basic idea viable.

 

MIDWAY

Why would you focus on HE bombers? Their damage is total RNG on non-battleships and you lose again HP on all other plane types. To make it a different playstyle the UU should decrease the plane pool of rocket and torp planes and significantly (at least 2fold) increase the plane pool of HE bombers. 

 

HAKURYU

Obviously I never played with that module, but I fear that the base plane speed will be so fast that it will be hard to drop on low concealment cruisers with speed bost on. 

Perhaps you can get faster out of the AA zone after you dropped? Not sure if thats worth 7.5% plane hp. Remains to be seen. 

 

 

Overall I am not excited at all about the CV UUs. I will test them anyways when they get released (except Audacious, because its useless and literally not worth the RB points)

 

 

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[BASIC]
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Seeing that new UU for Kremlin (rashian upgrades best upgrades), can't wait to see Upgrades for Stalingrad and Smolensk :Smile_trollface:    Looks like most of UUs are trash now, just great :Smile_sceptic:

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[XTREM]
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Kremlin UU is utter :etc_swear:, useful only in very choice situations, basically no reason to mount it otherwise over reload mod.

Good luck gimping your frontline BBs' survivability and range in WoWs tier 10 meta. 

 

I hate it when they reduce an already low range even further. Just why. Kurfurst UU comes to mind, but at least she can use a spotter. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, ExplosivesDeliverySystem said:

They could easily just impose the credit/xp condition to "unlock" RB grind on a ship and have it require you have done that on the whole line to get your reward.

Well, that's the whole point of it. Buy (!) doubloons, convert your elite ship XP's to FXP's and do it...

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Just now, LonesomePolecat said:

Well, that's the whole point of it. Buy (!) doubloons, convert your elite ship XP's to FXP's and do it...

But they could do that without denying you access to ships you already unlocked. Just institute it as a cost to do research on that ship.

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5 minutes ago, ExplosivesDeliverySystem said:

But they could do that without denying you access to ships you already unlocked. Just institute it as a cost to do research on that ship.

Agreed ...but they won't. All about money (easy buying vs near impossible grinds). In one hand, somehow it's understandable, it's a business eventually, but doing this and other things (you know what I mean, #...:'D) which alienating the player base won't help them in the long run... 

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I dont see why these are called upgrades when some of these either seem like choices or downright downgrades.

I mean they could just one or two aspects of ship (that don't directly enhance multiple parts of the ship) and just give them small upgrade values between 5-10% or have player choose between a ship based upgrade or a consumable upgrade.

 

So the former could be -10% to reload and 5% to range, while the consumable one could upgrade the duration of the consumable by 15% or reduce its cooldown by the same number.

Although for their small upgrades their prices should be drastically lowered to aorund 2k RP or 4k RP.

 

Otherwise if they want whatever the price is for upgrades now they might as well go mental a bit.

 

Or just scrap the bloody things altogether.

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[LEEUW]
[LEEUW]
Beta Tester
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Changes
Z-52: This ship will always have to be a hybrid, unless you guys change something on the base ship. The gun dpm and concealment are already too low to make a tradeoff for torpedoes, especially since the torpedoes themselves aren't very good either. This is a problem not even the UU will change, so this is not a viable option.

Grozovoi: This one's ok.

Moskva: You want it to be the choice for accuracy yet you nerf the accuracy. WTF. Just get the turret traverse lower and get rid of the extra range. But if you want people to choose this for accuracy you don't bloody nerf the point you want them to take it for. This module was decently balanced, maybe slightly on the strong side. Now it's just stupid.

Minotaur: No opinion, I don't have this ship.

Zao: You want the ship to be effective in open water (paraphrasing WG here) but you completely remove the bonus that actually made it effective in open water (-20% rudder shift time). Either you keep it this way and increase the range so it can still avoid most incoming fire. Or you give back the rudder shift and slightly decrease the range so it actually becomes a tradeoff between accuracy and maneauvrability or range or dpm. As it is now, it's just a straight nerf and not a tradeoff at all.
Yamato: This one's fine I guess. Tradeoff between dpm and accuracy is alright. But maybe increase the accuracy slightly as well because as it is now it's still not very effective.

 

New UUs

Daring: This ship barely has enough torpedo range as it is, so it has to close the distance already. Now you want to make it more torpedo focused but take away its ability to close in without getting spotted. This upgrade is just a straight nerf, not a tradeoff. Put it in a slot where it's a tradeoff between gun dpm and torpedoes and then I'll consider slotting the UU. Right now this is a no go.

Kléber: This one looks interesting. But 8km torp range is just not good enough for a torpedo focused DD. I'd definitely try the UU but I don't think it's all that viable except in some meme builds.
Harugumo: I like this one. Even more spam focus for this ship is nice. Tradeoff with concealment is decent. One downside is to make it effective your teammates have to do their job and spot for you. And knowing the teams you often face in Randoms, that will rarely be the case. Especially since these days quite often you'll be the only DD on your team and CVs are also not always present to spot for you. Looks mostly viable for division play, not solo.

Kremlin: It makes the ship more brawl focused, so I suppose that's a good thing in the current sniping meta, nice tradeoff that way. Not sure about the fairly high dpm increase though, I think -18% reload time is a bit too excessive.

Audacious: I don't have the ship, but the CV main in my clan says he's definitely going to use it. So I suppose that makes it a good UU.
Midway: Same as Audacious. It seems this is a decent one if you like using the bombers. So it's a tradeoff between bombers and torpedoes, which is exactly what it's supposed to do in my opinion.

Hakuryu: This CV I do play myself. And I think I'll definitely try the UU as opposed to the Air Groups Mod 2 I'm using at the moment. It seems a decent tradeoff.

 

Tl;dr: Some UUs I think are definitely worth a try (Grozovoi, Yamato, Harugumo, Kremlin, Audacious, Midway, Hakuryu). Others still need some adjusting before I'll consider using them (Moskva, Zao, Daring). There's three ships I'm not sure the UU will be viable (Minotaur because I don't have the ship) or because I think the new playstyle just doesn't fit the ship because it either has the wrong characteristics (Kléber) or because the ship itself needs some balancing first (Z-52).

Lastly I would like to emphasize that it's still not a good idea to have the Unique Upgrades in the Research Bureau. The previous system where you actually had to play the tier X ship in order to obtain the UUs was a lot better. Now you play the whole line except for the ship you want the UU for in order to obtain it. I fail to see the logic in that.

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[TSUN]
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I still dont understand the reasoning on insisting lowering DD concealment as a trade off. Unless the DD has top tier stealth and is already torp focus, like shima, it will never be worth to drop concrealment for extra torp power. Even less on dd's such as z52, which needs its concealment to make the hydro gimmick work and its essencially a ship designed to control caps, and daring which has 10km torps slow speed and mediocre concealment isnt much better.

As for haru's trade off, i guess? I mean you are essentially making it more like a cruiser so maybe?

I also wanted to write about kremlin's. I honestly dont like range trade offs on t10 bb's as much as concrealment on dd's. You lose over 2km range to gain around 2 secs (which is nice) and 2-3 extra salvoes in an entire game, which will most likely only serve to compensate the shots you were not able to take due to lack of range. In the current meta of HE spammers, fast reloading torps like Halland's, and constant rolf stomp games, range has never been more important for BB's.

The current meta is anti-brawling, yet u keep trying to force it without making other changes elsewhere. 

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[KOKOS]
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A lot of these changes are pretty stupid but i will concentrate on the cruisers since those are my thing:

 

Moskva: as others have said you want to create a distinction between range, reload and accuracy and yet you want to nerf the accuracy and instead leave the range alone.

Taking the slot 3 accuracy mod and the slot 6 range mod will give you similar results but with even more range and no traverse speed penalty making the UU pretty much pointless.

 

Zao: you want to make it effective for open water combat and yet you take away the rudder shift bonus that is essential for that kind of role.

Zao is probably the most accurate cruiser in the game so having a UU that gives it even more accuracy and a little bit of range doesn't do a whole lot to it since, similar to Moskva, you can just take the regular accuracy and range mod and have even better results.

 

I find it pretty curious that you want to push the "alternative playstyle" angle while a lot of these UUs are pretty much not viable in the current meta or even worse straight up nerf to the ships and at the same time the CVs UUs seems to be pretty much buffs and will become mandatory upgrades.

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[THESO]
[THESO]
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People were complaining about putting UU into the RB and hiding them behind a grind/pay wall... 

WG makes the UU mostly Okish / not Okish.. not necessary completely.. 

People complain about that now :) 

 

I love this forum.. 

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[KOKOS]
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1 minute ago, Excavatus said:

People were complaining about putting UU into the RB and hiding them behind a grind/pay wall... 

WG makes the UU mostly Okish / not Okish.. not necessary completely.. 

People complain about that now :) 

 

I love this forum.. 

Well, nerfing the UUs after people grinded them and not even giving a free demount period is pretty complain-worthy.

Plus making a lot the UUs pretty much worthless so you have to question what was even the point of putting them in the RB with those high prices that probably very few people are going to pay now.

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