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Per3c

CV gameplay favors USN

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Beta Tester
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The idea would be great to have 4 squadrons with 6 planes (USN) and 6 squadrons with 4 planes (IJN) as ballancing. 6 planes are a formidable attacking wing but the 4 planes squadrons are in service in notime. The biggest issue for me with the implementation of WG's idea that american CVs have options in flight controlls (defensive/offensive) but japanese CVs really don't have an option just at tier VII with the Hiryu. IJN CVs on the defensive option will only have 4 fighters in the sky at max till tier VI. The Hiryu with 2 squardons of fighters already gives more of an opportunity to scout, defend allied ships and bring back proper CV play with both team's CVs fighting for air supremacy.

 

Perfect example was a game I've played with my friends during the weekend I was in my tier VII USN CV Ranger and since my division had a BB and a DD I've chosen to take defensive flight controll to scout for them and bomb annoying DDs to burning wrecks. There was two enemy CVs an Independence and a Ryujo (both tier VI). Still with the enemy USN CV going defensive I've managed to get 56 planes shot down with minimal casualties (all my squadrons were still at their full fighting potentials when I've noticed that there were no enemy plane activities on the whole map).

 

My suggestion is: Let the IJN CVs have a 2 fighter squadron option from tier V because every USN CV player will just erase any kind of japanese wings in the skies no matter if fighters or other.

 

I have read on the forum that 1 vs 1 USN CVs will always win. That's not exactly true: In my Hosho against a Langley I've managed to close the distance to effective AA range and used my superb service time to launch torp salvos in such a fast rate that he hadn't had a chance. I've started my attack when his fighters ran out of ammo a half a map away (I had to sacrifice 4 torp bombers but since I had no losses till that moment - it was an acceptable exchange to lose 4 planes to get the enemy CV) and after my AAs killed off a few landing fighters I've sunk him while he tried to get his planes in the air fast enough.

Edited by Per3c
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Alpha Tester
47 posts

no no it's easy: japan CV are total s***! only one fighter squadron?! only 4 planes per squadron?! usa fighters OP! what it this? i love IJN but this are the worst class of ship ever! totally useless. a team with 2 japan carriers can anything against 2 us carriers! because usa CV have 2 fighters squadron with 6 planes each squad. is completely unbalanced

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Alpha Tester
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The IJN CVs can use half of a brain cell and realise they shouldn't fly straight through the middle, but use the corners and go for one of the USN CVs (with combined attack) and sink it, as you need only 2/6 TB squadrons to do it and some DBs if you miss with some of the torps. Even if they don't do that they will do 1-2 BB's health worth of damage even if they are out of planes at the end, while the USN would have many plane kills and some miserable damage from DBs alone. They will still influence the battle more if the USN fighters aren't protecting really pro BBs who will win the game for the rest if supported.

 

IJN CVs are UP and useless :great:

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[-5D4-]
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Beta Tester
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I just had a game where my IJN carrier was up against a USN carrier that had a fighter loadout.

 

Ocean map, the two teams bunch up and poke eachother from range. Enemy carrier parks his fighters between the two groups and the only response I could give was not to launch planes at all. After the first half the game has gone by, his dive bombers have all been wiped out by the grouped AA and he starts asking me if I am going to launch any planes....basically because until I do, he cant do anything. I managed to get one quick kill in at the end, but the game ends in a draw with both carriers still alive.

 

That's all the USN fighters achieve - pointless stalemate where neither carrier player gets any xp. We may as well be spectators.

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Beta Tester
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IJN are insane 1v1 whatever the enemy CV and whatever setup, even 1v2 in the right hands.  Never for the love of god take a fighter setup with IJN CV - just don't.

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Beta Tester
295 posts
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I just had a game where my IJN carrier was up against a USN carrier that had a fighter loadout.

 

Ocean map, the two teams bunch up and poke eachother from range. Enemy carrier parks his fighters between the two groups and the only response I could give was not to launch planes at all. After the first half the game has gone by, his dive bombers have all been wiped out by the grouped AA and he starts asking me if I am going to launch any planes....basically because until I do, he cant do anything. I managed to get one quick kill in at the end, but the game ends in a draw with both carriers still alive.

 

That's all the USN fighters achieve - pointless stalemate where neither carrier player gets any xp. We may as well be spectators.

 

 

The trick is to launch torp bombers, keep them out of sight, use DB as bait, spam them at his fighters until he has to reload and follow them back with torp bombers (avoiding CA ofc) and boom

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Beta Tester
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I was just about to ask about is this realistic, but being fair, this game is about balance.

Doesn't matter that early war, the Japanese fighters were probably more effective.  Right now, looks like the IJN will need a buff.

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Alpha Tester
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I belive we need complete fighter overhaul. The fact that in the "Naval academy" episode about aircraft they straight up say that your planes have no chance against higher tier and it is all that matters then yeah. Fighters are flawed.

IJN CV line is fine otherwise.

Edited by Ishiro32
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Beta Tester
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One major factor that was overlooked in the rebalance was Captain skills. The rank 5 captain skill "Air supremacy" add an extra fighter and bomber per wing. This means that all IJN CV captains are at a major disadvantage when paired against a US CV player. Simply because the US player will have two extra planes per wing over the IJN player. Which means IJN planes cannot compete in 1v1 air engagements. Until such time as an IJN skipper gains the same rank and skill they wont be able to put up much of a fight against US players.

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Beta Tester
295 posts
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One major factor that was overlooked in the rebalance was Captain skills. The rank 5 captain skill "Air supremacy" add an extra fighter and bomber per wing. This means that all IJN CV captains are at a major disadvantage when paired against a US CV player. Simply because the US player will have two extra planes per wing over the IJN player. Which means IJN planes cannot compete in 1v1 air engagements. Until such time as an IJN skipper gains the same rank and skill they wont be able to put up much of a fight against US players.

 

 

With respect you miss the whole point of the introduction of IJN.

 

 

IJN CV are meant to be played with a torpedo and bomber layout without fighters, you don't need them!!    The IJN fighter weakness was made clear in the news section of 3.1 prior to launch of patch.  US CV are fighter focussed and IJN Torpedo and DB focussed hence why I have 3 torpedo squadrons and 3 Torpedo Bomber squadrons at same time in the air.  With fast turn around and number of planes you can out do any enemy CV (or at least I can) and im not far from having extra planes in my setup too which makes it even more devastating to enemy.

 

 

If you use fighters in IJN CV you are playing it wrong.

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Beta Tester
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You missed the point entirely in your attempt to "s'plain" the nuances of the class that I already know. Skippers get an extra aircraft for both fighters AND bombers which is the current main focus for the US (since they lost some TPB). That means the skill directly favours a US captain over an IJN one.

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Beta Tester
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Before the last patch, there was a major gap between tier 5 to 6 planes. The tier 5 planes were just victims and even 2 vs 1 fighter groups would not allow you to shot more the 1-3 planes down while losing 5-8. Now, with the CV changes tier 4/5/6 planes are more close to each other, but the major gap returns between tier 6/7. The tier 6 planes are just victims for tier 7 planes, no matter what you do. If you get 2 CVs vs 1 CV, its possible to work together on getting the enemy fighters out of ammo and attack while they have to rearm or just swarm the enemy carrier at once.

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Beta Tester
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Ahh i see what you mean :) Yes they do but at the same time each TB and DB with extra plane will do even more damage to a BB/CV/CA - lets see im around 7 more battles away from getting the extra bomber for Shokaku, will report back in a few days.

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Beta Tester
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I love how the IJN Carrier try to rush the USN carriers. I fly pure fighter setups with Modules and soon skills to make it even more deadly. 

Usually it goes like this. 

1 I follow some BB or Cruiser that (as usually in bad game play try to play from distance) Use them as additional air cover 

2. Have my pimped out fighter groups focus the closest one (usually I kill them in 15 seconds) little ammo is spent this way. 

3. When he thinks my fighters are busy and throws in the Torp planes if he sucks I focus one and kill it before getting to attack range then just set the fighters to attack the rest to mees up the accuracy of the drop.

If he is good I split them up to attack 2 torp groups to lower the accuracy and have the AAA worry about rest of the bombers while evading. 

4. Initial wave over I use repair to extinguish fires inf any quickly reload the fighters launch and follow.

5. Interception of the reloaded bombers and Torp planes minus the losses focusing at 1 at time as they fly to my carrier usually manage to take down 2 groups. (with 2 fighter groups plus upgrades and skills takes 20 seconds to take down a jap torp group.) 

 

If they dont attack my carrier I usually just hunt them down when going after the BB's 

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Beta Tester
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Never for the love of god take a fighter setup with IJN CV - just don't.

 

Exactly that's my problem. Why I've started this topic. IJN CV player has to go the full aggressive flight control every time thus making any other flight controls redundant which has to be. I don't think the IJN in underpowered my analysis is quite the contrary on the situraion.

 

The IJN CVs can use half of a brain cell and realise they shouldn't fly straight through the middle, but use the corners and go for one of the USN CVs (with combined attack) and sink it, as you need only 2/6 TB squadrons to do it and some DBs if you miss with some of the torps. Even if they don't do that they will do 1-2 BB's health worth of damage even if they are out of planes at the end, while the USN would have many plane kills and some miserable damage from DBs alone. They will still influence the battle more if the USN fighters aren't protecting really pro BBs who will win the game for the rest if supported.

 

If I'm sailing out with my USN CV I would expect 7/10 times the tactic above, 1/10 times the straight trough the middle. Both tactics can lead to heavy casualties. On the other hand when my team has a many Yubaris or a few USN Cruisers then I use the following tactic: (which worked for me on the Ocean map against 2 enemy USN CVs and I even see it used 2/10 times)

 

1. Sail with the main fleet very close

Advantages:

- AA cover

- enemy ships will try to sink you first and with slalom the IJN CV is usually able to dodge salvos and your ships will have no resistance

- fastest turnover time for attacking those solo ships who try to halt the fleet

Disadvantages:

- you have to be able to multitask controlling the CV (the easiest way is watch from minimap for flashing shots from enemy and turn rudder)

- may hinder your fleets advance in tight maneuvers

2. Have a bait DB to lure enemy fighters to the main fleet

Advantages:

- most CV players when they are weak multitaskers tend to forget their fighters first

- if the main fleet goes under aggressive smoke screen the results can be devastating

- you can attack with your main wings during the fighter chase

Disadvantages:

- when the main fleet has many BBs the enemy CV player exactly knows what you try to do (you may try using TB which usually makes enemy greedy for kills and they just YOLO in the AA cover)

- you always run out of DBs (the most DB ever survived after using this tactic against 2 USN CVs was 1 single DB plane)

3. Evaluate enemy fighter losses

Advantage:

- when they run out you're good to go on a rampage

Disadvantage:

- this part is the hardest to do (almost impossible if your fleet has 2 CVs - just realise when the sky is clear)

 

The biggest issue with IJN CV for me is that you have to take the same flight control every time in low tier CVs.

Edited by Per3c

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[SPUDS]
Beta Tester
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Ahh i see what you mean :) Yes they do but at the same time each TB and DB with extra plane will do even more damage to a BB/CV/CA - lets see im around 7 more battles away from getting the extra bomber for Shokaku, will report back in a few days.

 

No, you misunderstood again. The skill adds 1 fighter and 1 Dive Bomber, not any Torpedo Bombers.

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Weekend Tester
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No, you misunderstood again. The skill adds 1 fighter and 1 Dive Bomber, not any Torpedo Bombers.

 

Wait what? Like really? This skill doesn't add a TB to a plane group? Don't even tell me.

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[PRAVD]
Community Contributor
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IJN are insane 1v1 whatever the enemy CV and whatever setup, even 1v2 in the right hands.  Never for the love of god take a fighter setup with IJN CV - just don't.

 

Are you really going to be trolling like this forever?

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Alpha Tester
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Are you really going to be trolling like this forever?

Until his luck runs out or he meets actually good player against him in 1sv1 situation, not the random "bobs".

I had few battles vs Lexingtons in air superiority today. They were either protecting only few BBs all the time without chasing my bombers while I was nuking other BBs and cruisers or just escorting their TB squadron all the time without doing anything else with the fighters - there must have been a warning about dangerous seagulls...

 

If that's his opponents I can only wish myself such luck too :)

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Beta Tester
295 posts
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Okay, my last post on CV's as this is going round in circles...


Like ALL ships it depends on whos in control....a good player with IJN vs crap player in US (or vice versa) will win....2 equally good players then it depends on loadouts and actual ships.
 

@Sharana, you seem to be assuming im only playing against bad players, ive killed and been killed by good players as well, all things being equal its stalemate, but things are never equal, either map, loadout, teammates etc affect outcomes, as a former FC in a top clan in WOT and if we had CW in WOWS today id take 2x Shokaku any day of the week, why? because a Shokaku vs Essex (with fighter loadout played by an 'expert') will sway the battle more effectively either ignoring CV and killing other ships, anyways I look forward to meeting you or Aerroon in battle (we would need several to test it out though) as i know we will have fun :D


 

@Aerroon, id appreciate if you stop calling me a troll in forum and a whiner in game as the thread I started has had a healthy discussion about it.:)

Edited by _SeamanStaines_
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Weekend Tester
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Okay, my last post on CV's as this is going round in circles...

 

Like ALL ships it depends on whos in control....a good player with IJN vs crap player in US (or vice versa) will win....2 equally good players then it depends on loadouts and actual ships.

 

@Sharana, you seem to be assuming im only playing against bad players, ive killed and been killed by good players as well, all things being equal its stalemate, but things are never equal, either map, loadout, teammates etc affect outcomes, as a former FC in a top clan in WOT and if we had CW in WOWS today id take 2x Shokaku any day of the week, why? because a Shokaku vs Essex (with fighter loadout played by an 'expert') will sway the battle more effectively either ignoring CV and killing other ships, anyways I look forward to meeting you or Aerroon in battle (we would need several to test it out though) as i know we will have fun :D

 

 

@Aerroon, id appreciate if you stop calling me a troll in forum and a whiner in game as the thread I started has had a healthy discussion about it.:)

 

I think the better question would be, what does make a ship OP? If for example 90% of players have less than average stats with it, 5% of players have horrible stats with it and 5% players have excellent stats with it, does that make the ship OP? I don't think so. We should maybe try to differentiate between OPness of the ship and on the other hand effect of the skill vs effect of the RNG on the ship. Cause let's face it, carriers have the lowest RNG impact of all ships. And is that bad? Is that wrong? For me totally not, cause now carriers are the only reason I am still playing this game, as it goes against WG politics of massive RNG to let even the worst players have some chance. When I am in a carrier, the thing that has the most RNG impact on my game is only the MM. Everything else I do does involve minimum RNG in it (dmg of torps, dispersion of bombs, etc.) and is pure skill based (manual drops, carrier positioning, plane positioning, baiting tactics etc.).

Only thing now which disbalances USN vs IJN CVs are their setups, but that's problem of fighters acting only as a negation of enemy carrier effectiveness thus contributing nothing to your impact on other ships, making it always a worse pick than pure assault setup. But Essex with its bomber setup is not worse than Shokaku, although it is one tier higher.

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Beta Tester
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I rather enjoy the specific national differences in squad size and the leaning towards DB or TB, respectively. I also concur that the options on loadout are too limited. I tried IJN fighter squads for a couple of games and then just dismissed it and changed my tactics. And since spotting itself is not a mechanic with its own rewards (and might not contribute enough to a game to secure a win), I just wonder if US CVs are too limited in role since the patch (except perhaps the higher tier ones).

 

What I would like to see is that flight control modules upgrade the maximum number of squads of one type (+1 fighter, or +1 dive bomber, etc, compared to the default loadout), and then have the player select the specific loadout via the ammunition tab. Maybe that's what WG is planning to do, anyway. So perhaps something like this in in the pipeline, I'd certainly hope so.

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Beta Tester
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If you are struggling with IJN CVs ure doing it wrong.

The IJN Fighter in this game never were meant to be in a fight with usn Fighters, instead use them just for protection on ure BBs and panic the enemie bombers. Or, as I prefer, take the bomberloadout and unleash hell on them. If ure half brained its not to difficult to outmaneuver the enemy CVs and do massive dmg, even if he has Fighters on your squadrons he will only achieve 2 bombersquadrons down per squadron fighter he has, so u should always get a few through

 

IJN CVs are for aggressive bomberloadouts with the fast servicingtimes and the narrow bombspreads, whereas the USN CVs are the defensive option with Fighters that will wreck any other but way longer servicingtimes and Torpedospreads that are hard to hit on target with all torps hitting.

 

IMO the IJN CVs are really well balanced atm, if not a bit to strong, but maybe this is just me.

 

p.s. I do >100k on my shokaku in my average battle, most of the times facing 2 USN CVs or 1 Essex

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Sailing Hamster
1,545 posts
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If you are struggling with IJN CVs ure doing it wrong.

The IJN Fighter in this game never were meant to be in a fight with usn Fighters, instead use them just for protection on ure BBs and panic the enemie bombers. Or, as I prefer, take the bomberloadout and unleash hell on them. If ure half brained its not to difficult to outmaneuver the enemy CVs and do massive dmg, even if he has Fighters on your squadrons he will only achieve 2 bombersquadrons down per squadron fighter he has, so u should always get a few through

 

IJN CVs are for aggressive bomberloadouts with the fast servicingtimes and the narrow bombspreads, whereas the USN CVs are the defensive option with Fighters that will wreck any other but way longer servicingtimes and Torpedospreads that are hard to hit on target with all torps hitting.

 

IMO the IJN CVs are really well balanced atm, if not a bit to strong, but maybe this is just me.

 

p.s. I do >100k on my shokaku in my average battle, most of the times facing 2 USN CVs or 1 Essex

 

After patch flooding and fire counts towards dmg and usually its like 25-40% of dmg total in battle. Doing around 60-70k dmg in t8 full offensive carrier isnt really that super impressive

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Alpha Tester
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After patch flooding and fire counts towards dmg and usually its like 25-40% of dmg total in battle. Doing around 60-70k dmg in t8 full offensive carrier isnt really that super impressive

 

If you are talking about stats in profile. The flooding and fire was being counted, I am almost 100% sure about that. 

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