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HassenderZerhacker

Poll about class balance

Class Balance  

115 members have voted

  1. 1. Should classes, when played by excellent players, have comparable influence on battle outcome?

    • yes
      85
    • no
      30

49 comments in this topic

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I would like people's opinion about class balance.

 

I don't want to talk about the average player here - suppose you put a super-unicum player that excels at a particular class into solo random battles.

 

Should a BB super-unicum sitting in a BB have more influence on the battle outcome than a DD super-unicum in a DD ? or in a cruiser? or in a CV ? the other way around?

 

This is not a question about which class currently has the most influence, this is a discussion about if it's a good thing that some classes have more influence on battle outcome than others.

 

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If players can get 85% winrate solo in a specific class, while the top players for other classes don't get over 70% solo winrate then yeah... There is something wrong. 

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6 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

I would like to know why  who

 

FTFY :cap_haloween:

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I didn't vote yet, because the question is so vague. What is "comparable influence"? A super-unicum can carry in any class - obviously not, though, if his whole team sucks.

 

It feels to me that you want to complain about classes - that some are too numerously represented in the matchmaking, or too little, or do too much damage, or not enough etc. Speak plainly, then!

 

As to your poll, no. A destroyer should not have "comparable influence" to a battleship. The destroyer should spot and torpedo and destroy destroyers, for example, whereas the battleship should tank damage, slowly advance, get rid of cruisers etc.

 

Unless you mean something different by "comparable influence". I guess I don't get the point of the poll.

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19 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

I didn't vote yet, because the question is so vague. What is "comparable influence"? A super-unicum can carry in any class - obviously not, though, if his whole team sucks.

 

It feels to me that you want to complain about classes - that some are too numerously represented in the matchmaking, or too little, or do too much damage, or not enough etc. Speak plainly, then!

 

As to your poll, no. A destroyer should not have "comparable influence" to a battleship. The destroyer should spot and torpedo and destroy destroyers, for example, whereas the battleship should tank damage, slowly advance, get rid of cruisers etc.

 

Unless you mean something different by "comparable influence". I guess I don't get the point of the poll.

 

okay... take the server's top 10 (or 20, 50... doesn't really matter) players in each of the classes and calculate the average solo winrate per class.

 

for some class(es), that average is as high as 80%, for other classes it's around 65%.  is that the way it should be?

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A sunicum cv player will dominate other sunicums in dd, cl/ca and/or bb. So no, cv shouldn't be this broken.

 

"if it's a good thing that some classes have more influence on battle outcome than others." In this context no. 

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11 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

 

okay... take the server's top 10 (or 20, 50... doesn't really matter) players in each of the classes and calculate the average solo winrate per class.

 

for some class(es), that average is as high as 80%, for other classes it's around 65%.  is that the way it should be?

So which one is that magic class? Sorry I'm too lazy to look it up...





 

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I don't believe on the influence an excellent player/ship can have on the battle outcome. He doesn't play alone. And it prerequisites an 'empty' of any good players opponents line up, which should rarely exist in a 'random' MM to be quantifiable. If one can 'massage' the synthesis of the line ups to secure the above conditions, then my vote is a yes.

So I vote no.

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25 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

 

okay... take the server's top 10 (or 20, 50... doesn't really matter) players in each of the classes and calculate the average solo winrate per class.

 

for some class(es), that average is as high as 80%, for other classes it's around 65%.  is that the way it should be?

Oh I see, it's supposed to be a CV rant.

You mean this one?

https://wows-numbers.com/player/542960524,OceanKiss/?type=solo

Looks like he has all his high percentage numbers pre CV rework and stopped playing. Yes CV's were that dominant before the rework in a unicums hands.


Or is it this one?

https://wows-numbers.com/player/500390286,MaciejoVietnam/?type=solo

Also all high winrate battles are in pre CV reworks...

That's the first two Unicums that have 85% in "unbalanced" classes...which don't exist anymore...

So your point?

EDIT: oh and the trend of "top players on the server" which have all their high WR in CV's before the rework and then quit continues on... 

It just seems like everyone else who actually continued playing CV's post rework somehow trashed his WR in that perticular class... :cap_hmm:

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10 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

I don't believe on the influence an excellent player/ship can have on the battle outcome. He doesn't play alone. And it prerequisites an 'empty' of any good players opponents line up, which should rarely exist in a 'random' MM to be quantifiable. If one can 'massage' the synthesis of the line ups to secure the above conditions, then my vote is a yes.

So I vote no.

I confess, I didn't fully understand your post.

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I voted "no", simply because the classes offer different levels of challenge and simplicity of play. I think it is ok that cruisers and DDs have more potential influence on the battle outcome than BBs. Higher risk should come with greater possible rewards.

 

And yes, I know that CVs are the black sheep in that regard, offering fairly simple and low-risk play while having the greatest influence on the outcome of the game.

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the game is balanced around the enemy team having the same, so no the different classes dont have to have the same influence its ok to have differing difficulties , impact and experience, they all just have to be "worth" playing.

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3 hours ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

I confess, I didn't fully understand your post.

I believe I was clear.

Classes should remain different, and 'gut' players shouldn't be able to overcome a 'poor' ship easily.

I added my personal but measured opinion that I don't believe one 'gut' player can alter alone the outcome of a game -in most cases- or regularly while driving a 'poor' ship.

If he does, then something 'unscientific'  must occur, since he's not playing alone and he's against an enemy team that 'should' have equal opportunity to present a 'decent' line up.

If all of the above occurs then he's impotent, unless he picks the most 'powerful' ship from everyone else and wins by default. Since the line ups mirror each other this should be impossible almost.

(I assume a division isn't used since that would equal 'cheating' the result here)

Anyways, If they don't and he can manage it due to poor enemy line up (with a 'poor' ship to boot), then the 'random' MM factor is null and void, especially if it happens above the minuscule percentage that such a thing is justified.  

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3 hours ago, CrniVrag said:

It just seems like everyone else who actually continued playing CV's post rework somehow trashed his WR in that perticular class...

Perhaps the most honest words spoken in here since the rework. I would say almost everyone. Excellent final part in your post :)

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3 hours ago, CrniVrag said:

It just seems like everyone else who actually continued playing CV's post rework somehow trashed his WR in that perticular class... :cap_hmm:

 

Now explain to us, why your skill in RTS CVs would matter when playing reworked CVs?

Also @El2aZeR has basicly the same WR in RTS and new CVs... and what about players who have better WR in new CVs?

 

25 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

gut' players shouldn't be able to overcome a 'poor' ship easily. 


First of all you would need to define a poor ship. Is it a poor ship because it really is bad, or only because many people cant play it properly? Which also includes, who decides if a ships is poor?

F.e. without a doubt, many people would say, Marblehead is trash. But i think its one of the strongest T5 Cruisers (apart from Murmansk). The firepower is basicly unmatched at that tier, but the price for that is having literally no armor.

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9 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:


First of all you would need to define a poor ship. Is it a poor ship because it really is bad, or only because many people cant play it properly? Which also includes, who decides if a ships is poor?

 

I believe I wrote 'poor' for a reason. I don't endorse the word. :)

 

No, I was talking about ships only and not the people there. I don't like the word poor. I meant ships that you can find better options in their category. It is of course a matter of personal choice always, we more or less all agree some ships are preferable to others due to their usefullness in a game. Be it, concealment or firepower, tankiness, speed etc. I like the Exeter more that don't mean it's the best or even Kirov. Murmansk of course. But if we are to point to a 'poor' or worst among the others a few known names will appear imo. Marble I don't have it, so I can't offer an opinion.

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I voted 'yes' as - in an ideal world - the impact of a meister in any ship should ideally be the same as in any other ship.

 

However, I would note that this is, I suspect, an entirely unrealistic hope - unless the game became deathly dull and homogeneous there will always be some ships/classes where the very skilled can have a disproportionate impact. This is probably a good thing for the average player too - it effectively gives us different levels of challenge to take on, depending on mood etc.

 

All of which said, an excessive level of impact difference is undesirable and should be avoided....

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You can't compare CV unfluence to all other classes' influence, becaus, an ideal match (for WG) has 3-4 BB, 3-4 CA , 3-4 DD and 1 CV. 

So if you compare classes' influence you should see that the CV is just 1 ship representing a class . Yet all other classes are represented by multiple ships. 

Thus making 1 CV as unfluential as 1 BB or 1 DD or 1 CA makes the class a lot weaker. So each shipclass should have the same influence, however because some classes are represented by more ships you need the combined influence (of say all BB for tanking purposes) to have an influence to 1 CV.

 

 

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In short, yes.

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