Champagne Seconday build

[darkstar73]

Hello all. I bought the Champagne. Only played some in Coop to keep my sanity.  Will try random tomortow. 

I really like her. And i have noticed that she is a Secondary monster. I mean 18 guns in a broadside ain't bad. I get roughly 1/3 hits of all fired shells. Even over long ranges. Steadily around 20-25k damage exclusive fires. No ifhe. Will try that tomorrow.

What do you guys think of her? Am I just lucky or is she thst good? 

Cheers 

[ColonelPete]

She is not really made for close range fighting. She is too soft.

She wants to flank to make her few main guns count.

[Communist_Loli]

6 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

Hello all. I bought the Champagne. Only played some in Coop to keep my sanity.  Will try random tomortow. 

I really like her. And i have noticed that she is a Secondary monster. I mean 18 guns in a broadside ain't bad. I get roughly 1/3 hits of all fired shells. Even over long ranges. Steadily around 20-25k damage exclusive fires. No ifhe. Will try that tomorrow.

What do you guys think of her? Am I just lucky or is she thst good? 

Cheers 

It won't end well for you I'm afraid...

Not only is the Champagne insanely squishy, but her secondaries are also pretty trash as well. They're easy to take out with steady HE fire and don't do any dmg themselves apart from setting fires. Without IFHE, her 100 mm secondaries can't even pen destroyers let alone BB superstructures. 

[Miscommunication_dept]

No no no. The most squishy battleship at T8. Secondaries that need IFHE just to pen superstructure? 
 

Don’t do it, in the Champagne, if something is within 11km you’ve done something wrong.

[Rautainen_Biisoni]

Its hilariously fun in secondary build. IFHE is needed though.

As usual we get a lot of these "sit back and snipe" type of BB players coming to tell you not to have fun in secondary build and they go back to their stealth/tank builds as usual. Its too squishy and this and that.

Watch out for BB shells into your bow when pushing in and remember to time your attack right and not against too many opponents. When pushing in switch your angle between 30-5 degrees when you see incoming to throw off enemy big guns aim. Always track incoming BB shells to minimize damage and let the secondary rain begin when you catch them. Use speed to pick the right fights.

[Communist_Loli]

20 minutes ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

Its hilariously fun in secondary build. IFHE is needed though.

As usual we get a lot of these "sit back and snipe" type of BB players coming to tell you not to have fun in secondary build and they go back to their stealth/tank builds as usual. Its too squishy and this and that.

Watch out for BB shells into your bow when pushing in and remember to time your attack right and not against too many opponents. When pushing in switch your angle between 30-5 degrees when you see incoming to throw off enemy big guns aim. Always track incoming BB shells to minimize damage and let the secondary rain begin when you catch them. Use speed to pick the right fights.

Question is, why pay all that money to do this in a Champagne when it could be done waaaay better in almost any BB at its tier?....

[ColonelPete]

14 minutes ago, Communist_Loli said:

Question is, why pay all that money to do this in a Champagne when it could be done waaaay better in almost any BB at its tier?....

Because he can...

That is like using a hammer to open cans. It works and when with sufficient skill it might even work well, but it is not the best tool for the job.

[MagicMooby]

Champagne is a T8 BB with T7 armour and T6 HP, an A-X turret layout and secondaries that can't pen let alone hit DDs

 

why would anyone build this ship for secondaries?

You have guns that could bring down a GOD who needs secondaries?

 

I swear some people just look at a ship in port and the moment they see a slightly larger number of secs than normal the reptile portion of the brain overrides everything else

 

Rule of thumb:

Does the ship have decent survivability and improved secondaries?

If no, you don't build for secondaries

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Communist_Loli said:

Question is, why pay all that money to do this in a Champagne when it could be done waaaay better in almost any BB at its tier?....

It's fun. And - rather like on the Jean Bart - it's a viable option in Co-op games. Considerably more entertaining to do this with a fast, manoueverable ship than with the lumbering American and German brutes most people favour. 

 

(although I really do agree that I think this ship has been specifically created to do everything else other than brawl with her secondaries).

[TruePhoenix]

Ok.

 

So I have a choice, Champers or Massa as a sec build at T8? Do you really need to ask? I mean come on, even Bismark or Tirpitz?

 

Champers is a dogs dinner, served on a platter of puke. Without doubt worse than the Gascogne (I own it, from a box) and that alone should tell you something. Champers has been designed (I use the phrase loosely) to sit at the borders and snipe, its not even a "push in late on" ship, it will get hammered even by CC's, even gunboat DD's will have fun. Its an awful ship. Maybe and only maybe, 2 could sit next to the CV as a division and target. Even then you have accuracy issues etc. 

 

Its an old dog, toothless, unable to brawl and gets picked on by the pack. Take it to a Veterinary and do the humane thing.  

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

You don't have the armour nor the hp to do so. Odin has also low hp but has armour to tank. Plus hydro. 

Also your secondaries aren't that effective like the German ones. They also break pretty fast. 

Even on Gascogne that has 32mm bow and stern, more hp and better heal cooldown - it's not a great brawler. So I don't recommend that build for effective gameplay on it.  

[Communist_Loli]

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Because he can...

That is like using a hammer to open cans. It works and when with sufficient skill it might even work well, but it is not the best tool for the job.

Except instead of a hammer, the Champagne might as well be a pillow in that analogy with how badly equipped it is for brawling. And yes, he might make it work, but I doubt it'll be because of his secondaries carrying the day. 

 

But yeah, it's his boat so he can do whatever he wants with it. 

[Odo_Toothless]

2 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Even on Gascogne that has 32mm bow and stern, more hp and better heal cooldown - it's not a great brawler. So I don't recommend that build for effective gameplay on it.  

I have secondary Gascogne and find her effective, but Champagne is a paper.

[quickr]

Secondary builds are fun only builds. They are very situational and just cos 1 out of 20 games you get amazing result while you yolo in, all guns blazing left and right, doesn't mean it's a viable option.

I would suggest to treat good/numerous secondaries as something nice to have but focus on survivability. Specially with new PANEU DDs, CVs and all the HE spam right now.

[Faradhras]

I managed to kill a Champagne yesterday in Ranked Sprint with my GZ in a short range encounter (4-6 km distance, island ambush situation) with my secondaries and planes. Kited it away, Champagne followed but seemingly only used one turret and was whittled to death. Granted, the player was a noob. So my advice: don't get close with this ship.

[_HomTanks_]

9 hours ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

Its hilariously fun in secondary build. IFHE is needed though.

As usual we get a lot of these "sit back and snipe" type of BB players coming to tell you not to have fun in secondary build and they go back to their stealth/tank builds as usual. Its too squishy and this and that.

Watch out for BB shells into your bow when pushing in and remember to time your attack right and not against too many opponents. When pushing in switch your angle between 30-5 degrees when you see incoming to throw off enemy big guns aim. Always track incoming BB shells to minimize damage and let the secondary rain begin when you catch them. Use speed to pick the right fights.

Take Massa out then, it just does it better.

[Malim0o]

Champagne is clearly not a secondaries BB maybe the worst one on this point.

25mm bow/stern and the low hp pool are a massive issue for the close range.

But you have some incredible guns ( best bb guns so far , from my point of view ), good concealement and insane speed.

So it's a very good mid/long range flanker.

[Yedwy]

I dont think its worth BUILDING for secs on Champaigne primarily as you have to sacrifice the dispersion module which kinda comes really handy on her because of only 6 guns and their characteristics, furthermore its good to have BOS so you can take rudder module couse you depend on fast angling to mitigate damage and sice you kinda need FP and CE and SI on her if you want to come in closer its not really feasable to stick loads of points into BFT+AFT and IFHE or MCFSA, the that said she can take a brawl to a degree if you are able to keep angled and I often start a number of fires with her secs when closing in for the kill/brawl, it is rather hard to do though as you are squishy and you really need to pay attention to your surroundings doing it...

[Ocsimano18]

People will tell you that Champagne, a T8 BB is too squishy for a secondary build. The same people are also pissed off that the T9 Agir's secondaries were nerfed. So NO for a secondary BB build at T8, but YES for a secondary cruiser at T9. Understood? (Honestly, I don't).

 

But seriously, you'd need to invest 12 points (IFHE, Man Sec, AFT) to make it work. You'd be probably better off with a concealment build, but it's up to you to fine tune the fun/efficiency factor to your personal liking.

[HaachamaShipping]

And I thought I was being weird for playing secondary Shikishima...

 

Honestly, as others already said, secondary Champagne is a disaster waiting to happen, with lowest hp pool at T8, worst armour that can get overmatched by its peers and only 4 repairs, you are truely bad at brawling, to the point taking a Mutsu into brawls will do better (at least it got torps and at best sees T8 with a better hp pool).

[SlingaDing]

a very well known UK CC uses secondary build on this ship, charges straight into battle (ie. doesn't sit back and snipe) , and does very well with it 

[Malim0o]

Il y a 1 heure, Ocsimano18 a dit :

People will tell you that Champagne, a T8 BB is too squishy for a secondary build. The same people are also pissed off that the T9 Agir's secondaries were nerfed. So NO for a secondary BB build at T8, but YES for a secondary cruiser at T9. Understood? (Honestly, I don't).

 

Clearly not the same secondaries and not the same tankiness.

Agir is way more tanky (thx upper belt)

[Rautainen_Biisoni]

1 hour ago, SlingaDing said:

a very well known UK CC uses secondary build on this ship, charges straight into battle (ie. doesn't sit back and snipe) , and does very well with it 

Another very well known CC tells his fanboys to avoid secondary builds all the time. He also camp and snipes a lot and farms damage in a BB. Never see him actually attacking or pushing. His team bleeds while he is sniping.

 

Players in this forum should realize that just because they can't make secondary Champagne work someone better than them can. Closing in and pushing doesn't fit into everyone playstyle.

I personally can't make Zao work for me and I got to face the sad fact that people out there are much better and confident in that ship than me.

 

Secondary BB games aren't always the best. Sometimes you are on the defending side and have to run away and not make use of secondaries. Then there are those moments when you can use the speed and heavy close range firepower of that ship and carry your team of camper baBBies. 

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

Players in this forum should realize that just because they can't make secondary Champagne work someone better than them can. Closing in and pushing doesn't fit into everyone playstyle.

These players might then be better off realising that Gascogne is a better ship for their playstyle. It has better hp, better armour, same secondaries, more guns that are less accurate but at close range doesn't matter and it has a Massachusetts heal.

1 hour ago, Rautainen_Biisoni said:

Players in this forum should realize that just because they can't make secondary Champagne work someone better than them can. Closing in and pushing doesn't fit into everyone playstyle.

 

I personally can't make Zao work for me and I got to face the sad fact that people out there are much better and confident in that ship than me.

It is sensible to admit that Zao does not befit you, but why is it the ship not befitting your playstyle preferences in this case, but with Champagne it's players unable to realise a playstyle with the ship? Brawling Champagne is like playing brawling Zao. The ship is absolutely not made for it. It absolutely sucks at it. It's literally the crappiest brawler at T8 and the only thing it brings over stuff like Monarch and Vanguard is secondary range. The lack of pen on most of the secs means it isn't even going to put out much hurt. Who would pay a ton of actual money just to play a ship not suited for close range in exactly that environment? Go buy a Tirpitz instead.

[elblancogringo]

16 hours ago, TruePhoenix said:

Ok.

 

So I have a choice, Champers or Massa as a sec build at T8? Do you really need to ask? I mean come on, even Bismark or Tirpitz?

 

Champers is a dogs dinner, served on a platter of puke. Without doubt worse than the Gascogne (I own it, from a box) and that alone should tell you something. Champers has been designed (I use the phrase loosely) to sit at the borders and snipe, its not even a "push in late on" ship, it will get hammered even by CC's, even gunboat DD's will have fun. Its an awful ship. Maybe and only maybe, 2 could sit next to the CV as a division and target. Even then you have accuracy issues etc. 

 

Its an old dog, toothless, unable to brawl and gets picked on by the pack. Take it to a Veterinary and do the humane thing.  

 

 

If played correctly she can do wonders. Full concealment build make her extremely stealthy, you can just wait till it's time to unleash your accurate salvo to a broadside enemy and devastate him. Then disengage, use your awesome speed to reposition. Rinse and repeat. No need to sit back at 30 kms to make her work. When you understand she has cruiser squishiness and adapt your playstyle you won't say it's trash. She is actually quite unique and fun to play, and a threat at all ranges.

 

And for OP question, going secondary build on her is imo asking for a beating.