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Killing Venezia? Are you serious?

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1 hour ago, quickr said:

Now Venezia. True, nerfs are small. Only .5 to reload. It's not much. Only slight ricochet and rudder change. But still, 3 nerfs at the same time. Could turn out it's too much. We'll see.

Small nerfs after small nerfs after small nerfs. My guess would be "final" Venezia at 22s reload, 14s rudder shift. And none of these changes fix issue of extremely lethal first strike salvo on a fast cruiser with option to immediately disengage due to magic smoke.

 

75-80 angles shouldn't be there to begin with.

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Just now, Panocek said:

Small nerfs after small nerfs after small nerfs. My guess would be "final" Venezia at 22s reload, 14s rudder shift. And none of these changes fix issue of extremely lethal first strike salvo on a fast cruiser with option to immediately disengage due to magic smoke.

 

75-80 angles shouldn't be there to begin with.

 

To me its again a failed concept as a whole.

15 guns is too much. Since they made that ship up, they could have gone with 12 as many other aswell. The troll armor is way over the top since it already has emergency smoke. And the turning circle is too tight.

If you fix those 3, you can see how it performs.

 

(and to me, SAP shouldnt exist at all, but thats a different story)

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46 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes, that is what outperforming means.

As explained, Venezia is a damage machine, she has no utility. She cannot flush out targets or help teammates with hydro.

Dunno about that

With that speed and SAP venezias can literally obliterate any dd

Then just smoke up and run away

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Simple question; Smolensk is without doubt the most overpowered ship in the game, why has it not been nerfed ?

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1 minute ago, mantiscore said:

Dunno about that

With that speed and SAP venezias can literally obliterate any dd

Then just smoke up and run away

Do you think it is just luck that a ship with 250k battles in the last two months and less damage and kills than Venezia wins more matches?

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Just now, DFens_666 said:

 

To me its again a failed concept as a whole.

15 guns is too much. Since they made that ship up, they could have gone with 12 as many other aswell. The troll armor is way over the top since it already has emergency smoke. And the turning circle is too tight.

If you fix those 3, you can see how it performs.

 

(and to me, SAP shouldnt exist at all, but thats a different story)

Its not like WG have expertise in failed concepts:cap_tea:

 

Though I guess large cruiser dispersion on Venezia to "counteract excessive salvo efficiency" would be a thing... but then everyone would just switch to next best in slot.

 

And it always struck me why WG developed wheel anew with SAP, when they could go with Brit CL approach but in CA caliber. Because as of now, Brit 152mm "AP" have better pen at all ranges than fixed 54mm SAP while achieving the same "no overpen" goal. Heck, SAP shell damage is in line with tier 10 203mm AP shells and then short fuse, 20mm sensitive Venezia AP at 4800dmg might be a solution, for her heavy broadside.

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2 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Simple question; Smolensk is without doubt the most overpowered ship in the game, why has it not been nerfed ?

Probably because of this:

image.thumb.png.edf49e63edefb22c951cc3eeab511b26.png

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15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Henry needs some improvement too. 

 

I disagree

image.png.dc336b07879d1fa3fdab308a53438312.png

Noone is playing Henri because they think its garbage (which it isnt) They jumped to Venezia, because its easier.

image.png.253e410e6c512312662a9e9c008bf5b1.png

 

The same happened to YY when they nerfed it -> all good players jumped ship.

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15 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Henry needs some improvement too.

 

Heh, usualy you are the one that says, everything is fine, now you argue for a Henri buff and I have to disagree with you ;)

Henri is still awesome. My Henri games post-nerf:

 

image.png.1bfef5f0da9b731c829fca5d65145218.png

 

Just scratched the 200k mark a few days ago.

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6 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Simple question; Smolensk is without doubt the most overpowered ship in the game, why has it not been nerfed ?

 

So you should be able to prove it since its kinda obvious? Please show us why.

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3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Heh, usualy you are the one that says, everything is fine,...

What I say depends on the situation.

I also said that changes of established Tier X ships should be small.

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

The change will not kill her, but one must question if it was necessary to go that far.

The change of the ricochet angle would have probably been enough.

image.thumb.png.5f17158961e343e7c3bfd8e9b58cdc67.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200620/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

DM outperforms Venezia and was not touched for quite some time. While the RU CA are a balance disaster in waiting.

Venezia is a damage machine, while being good at mitigating damage. She has no hydro or radar to flush out important targets.

Des Moines received an unnecessary armour buff during the IFHE changes. 
 

Venezia nerf makes sense.

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27 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

why has it not been nerfed ?

 

25 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

Now nerf next Smolensk please.

 

Maybe you're forgetting this but Smolensk did actually receive a nerf, just not to the guns. The 30mm deck armour and amidships side plating which covered a large portion of the centre was removed and replaced with 16mm, which is overmatched by 229mm-plus AP and pennable by all HE shells it will meet. 

 

The ship was much more troll before in terms of protection. 

 

Also, it's not overpowered. 

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7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I disagree

image.png.dc336b07879d1fa3fdab308a53438312.png

Noone is playing Henri because they think its garbage (which it isnt) They jumped to Venezia, because its easier.

image.png.253e410e6c512312662a9e9c008bf5b1.png

 

The same happened to YY when they nerfed it -> all good players jumped ship.

The Henry change was in January.

During November last year she was not that popular either.

image.thumb.png.d4ad18244b2341daff591f5294d8166a.png

 

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

During November last year she was not that popular either.

 

She never really was, for reasons we can only speculate

- Its not german

- Its another line of longrange HE spammers after IJN/Germans were already available.

Maybe most people didnt feel like grinding them, and many people want to play Hindenburg because german (as we can see with the battle count).

 

But i dont think Henri is weak right now, it just might not fit the playstyle of the people playing it? (could be the same for german ships, which tend to draw their stats down)

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43 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

Also, it's not overpowered. 

Yep I agree.. 

She may be one of THE MOST frustrating ship to play against.. 

but it is far away from being an OP ship IMO

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11 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

But i dont think Henri is weak right now, it just might not fit the playstyle of the people playing it? (could be the same for german ships, which tend to draw their stats down)

TBH I used to play Henri quite a lot in both CB and Ranked BUT what made me sort of abandon her (and this started before the infamous acceleration nerf) of late is the fact she got blapped by overmatching BB guns more and more, reason for that is ever more and more 17-18" gunned up BBs you meet on regular basis, I was always more for turning in or out to dodge salvos then speed juking them so the engine nerf wasnt even something all that relevant in that regard it was just an additional annoyance on top of the Kremlins, Ohios, Georgias, Thunderers amd the like getting more and more prevalent in matches renderining your armor largely useless...

 

She can still do damage, I mean ofc she can its just that other ships that suffer less are around and (relatively) easily awailable so why gimp yourself...

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17 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The Henry change was in January.

During November last year she was not that popular either.

 

I do think I have explanations for that. Henri has a pretty unique playstyle / position in the game. One, that doesnt suit many players. Lets compare it with the other ships:

DM/Worcester are island huggers. Their defense is terrain. Many players get this and its not that hard to put into practice since its a stationary, slow pace game. Many are not effective with those ships but atleast they dont die quick.

Moskva has easy to use guns and the very simple "stay bow in - be super tanky" build in playstyle. That is pretty eas to adopt aswell. Again, efficancy is a different topic but people can survive without putting too much efford in their game.

Minotaur has the smoke. Like the 3 ships above, thats an easy defense mechanism. The same applies again, just the smoke alone doesnt make you efficient but it increases your survivability.

Zao - has the concealment working for her. Thats her defense mechanism

Hinenburg arguebly falls in the same class as Henri, since both of them are lacking such a build in feature. But we can find things, that work as similar defense mechanisms: Henri has the manouvarability, Hindenburg the armor. Hindenburg is harder to make work then say Moskva, thus the WR is lower aswell. But Hindenburg is german and as such popular by design. Henri has the hardest to work defense mechanism, since you need to activly dodge incoming shots. But its imo one of the most effective. So Id say Henri has a high skill floor but also a high skill celing. Its accompanied by the reload booster (which can be totaly wasted or used super efficiently). Thats why many people have problems with Henri.

 

Thats just my take on the situations of T10 cruisers. I had to learn Henri over a long period of time aswell. It doesnt show from my stats, but I have literally several hundred of games in Henri over all clanbattle seasons since she was introduced. And I had to learn the hard way.

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1 minute ago, Yedwy said:

TBH I used to play Henri quite a lot in both CB and Ranked BUT what made me sort of abandon her (and this started before the infamous acceleration nerf) of late is the fact she got blapped by overmatching BB guns more and more, reason for that is ever more and more 17-18" gunned up BBs you meet on regular basis, I was always more for turning in or out to dodge salvos then speed juking them so the engine nerf wasnt even something all that relevant in that regard it was just an additional annoyance on top of the Kremlins, Ohios, Georgias, Thunderers amd the like getting more and more prevalent in matches renderining your armor largely useless...

 

She can still do damage, I mean ofc she can its just that other ships that suffer less are around and (relatively) easily awailable so why gimp yourself...

 

But all other CAs have the same issue? Zao/Hindenburg/Venezia even and DM. Sure, there are difference in size aswell, which could make henri more prone to being hit ?`(dunno about size difference) but even DM should have more issues because it often operates closer to the enemies than the others.

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5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

But all other CAs have the same issue? Zao/Hindenburg/Venezia even and DM. Sure, there are difference in size aswell, which could make henri more prone to being hit ?`(dunno about size difference) but even DM should have more issues because it often operates closer to the enemies than the others.

Not quite, as some are not meant (nor do they usually) to operate as flankers in open water, others are smaller, nimbler and with better stealth, some others again have 160mm inner belt behind their outer one unlike henri... OFC other CAs suffer the same but in my experience actually less accutely then poor henri

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1 hour ago, Mahaaret said:

Simple question; Smolensk is without doubt the most overpowered ship in the game, why has it not been nerfed ?

Exactly this:

21 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Yep I agree.. 

She may be one of THE MOST frustrating ship to play against.. 

but it is far away from being an OP ship IMO

 

But still I have to ask you @Mahaaret. Why do you think Smolensk is the most overpowered ship in the game?

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3 hours ago, Supersubway said:

We have a new line, which is awful. Try play t5, t6, t7 of the italian line. Crap play time. Not funny.

People play that just to grind to Venezia.

Which is a gudbote.  

But still worse than 3 other cruisers. ALL ARE RUSSIAN. And they nerf, BADLY, the fourth.

20.5 reload time? Are you kidding me? 20 was already a pain, now 20.5?
And you dramatically transform a truck into a train (+10% on turn) with bullets that now bounce easily? (Use the sap, they don't bounce!)

 

Look at the chart, and tell me what are you thinking. Tell me why three best are from the same country and the 4th get nerfed. So the only way to get a good boat is to choose Russian ships?

 

What a crap. What a C-R-A-P.

 

You don't for sure need me, but I'm not going to spend time on this game anymore.

 

 

mad.jpg

Venezia dominated last CB season completely. It had best survivability, ability to disengage, trollish armour and decimated large cruisers such as moskva and stalingrad with heavy salvoes. Top teams only brought one Stalingrad at max, rest were Venezias. 2v2 battles with Venezias lasted for several minutes so it was extremely powerful. 

 

But yes they should nerf Smolensk since it just ruins games for everybody... well except CVs. 

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1 hour ago, Donar79 said:

And what about Mino, Wooster, Zao, Henry and Moskva?

Minotaur's fine, in the radar confuturation she's very strong. If she's lacking anything, she's far too slow to relocate for a ship that depends so heavily on positioning so maybe they could buff her water speed.

WARchester is and always will be an obnixious behind the island spammer that is fundamentally obsolete in the current BB invincibility meta after the Venezia which allows heavy cruisers to actually effectively kill light cruisers at range and so any buffs to her are largely unwarranted.

Zao is strong and she's still strong, maybe an HP buff to bring her up a bit in line with the other cruisers now that 30mm armor means nothing.

Henri just needs her acceleration nerf reversed, she was fine before then and will be good again.

Moskva was fine and is still fine. Maybe give her a turret mechanization buff to somewhat help with her static playstyle. Kremlin gets those sci-fi turrets, I don't see why Moskva shouldn't at least have something a bit nicer.

 

Quite frankly though apart from the Henri, these ships are all still rather good at what they do and that hasn't really changed.

 

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6 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

But still I have to ask you @Mahaaret. Why do you think Smolensk is the most overpowered ship in the game?

Because it sit in smoke and spam HE. Doesn't matter that its HE pens hardly anything and is all reliant on fire, when BB gets put on fire too much, siren goes of blaring and then the audio and visual input of all the shells makes BB player brain panic, regardless of what is actually happening. BB is a forgiving class that attracts players of almost all kinds, but mostly gets "mained" by people with a certain type of character that cannot handle this kind of traumatising experience. This is not what they play BB for!

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