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Killing Venezia? Are you serious?

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4 minutes ago, mantiscore said:

When was the last time a russian non-test ship got nerfhammered?

They will get nerfed when they get to be most picked ship in CBs.

 

Hindy got nerfed after a good CB season(s), than the nerf was reverted as they realized it was too much.

YuYang got nerfed after good CB season(s) to the point they killed it entirely. Everyone with the grain of salt could see it was too much but WG needed over a year to figure it out.

Next on the list was Henry. Again good CB season(s), again nerf. When was the last time you saw Henry in randoms?

Now Venezia. True, nerfs are small. Only .5 to reload. It's not much. Only slight ricochet and rudder change. But still, 3 nerfs at the same time. Could turn out it's too much. We'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

The SAP ricochet angle nerf brings the SAP in line with all other SAP. Given how it already is workable enough on preceeding ships, it's not like Venezia will be worse, it'll just make it less silly when it pens almost perfectly angled ships.

 

The rudder nerf is basically half a second from neutral to hard over. Given how Italian rudder never was great to begin with, but the turning circle is, this reinforces the playstyle of starting turns timely to dodge.

 

Reload nerf is half a second ontop of 20s. If you can wait 20s, you can wait 20.5s. This isn't some Hindenburg-level or YY-level reload nerf that actually makes meaningful differences.

 

But hey, if people think everything before Venezia is crap and only Venezia is good, I'm not sad if such people drop the line. It's wasted on them anyway.

Basically double rudder made Venezia work,, otherwise it gets blapped by BBs. It was overperforming in the CV only Clan Wars meta, where there were no BBs. All these nerfs make it a ship noone will want to play. And this happens a few months after its release. WG basically only wants players who play 4+ hours a day, or pay a lot of cash to get new ships on early access. I won't spend more money on the game.

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It is a sad state of affairs with the Italian Cruiser Line, The Italians Built Well Designed Fast Powerful Cruisers What Wargaming did at them was shameful (imho), but at least at the top you got a Very Good Ship if played well and it seems that because it was played well in WG's events  those that love the ship get punished, and the thing is once the nerfing starts it tends to become a thing as we've seen so many times in other ships.

PS no I don't have the ship, indeed I don't have any Italian Ships anymore  I sold them and poor old Sansonetti is sat waiting for an Italian Battleship that can hit the wall of a barn from the inside :Smile_facepalm:

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1 minute ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Basically double rudder made Venezia work,, otherwise it gets blapped by BBs.

Italian cruisers work with single rudder or double rudder, double rudder just capitalises on the line having no incentive to be close and a silly smoke to bail if things go south. And with double rudder, you have like 0.2-0.3s longer till your rudder goes from neutral to hard over. If this is what kills a cruiser, then it shouldn't have been good in the first place, yet Venezia is one of the overperforming ships.

 

5 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

All these nerfs make it a ship noone will want to play.

If you think so. As said before, I won't mind. If this is what it takes to make Venezia unattractive, then the whole thing was wasted on these people anyway. Pretty sure that Venezia will stay pretty powerful.

6 minutes ago, Ocsimano18 said:

And this happens a few months after its release. WG basically only wants player who play 4+ hours a day, or pay a lot of cash to get new ships on early access. I won't spend more money on the game.

Italian cruisers got introduced last autumn. It's summer now. "Few months" is a stretch...

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Před 15 minutami Ocsimano18 řekl/a:

Venezia is still relatively new and owned by much better players than the server average. It has good damage but has difficulty influencing the game otherwise (no radar, no hydro, cannot play close to the caps). Also I don't see why it should be compared to Nevsky. I'd like to see the stats (WR) of Venezia players compared to their other recently played T10 cruisers. Why is nerfing a steel ship tricky? You have nerfed a couple of premiums recently (IFHE cruisers, Enetrprise upcoming) for which people played cash. Steel was mostly a free to obtain resource.

We haven't directly nerfed premium ships. Those changes are done to some part of game mechanics. Right now there are changes to AP bombs which influences every single ship, whos squadrons have AP bombs.

 

Před 14 minutami Execute0rder66 řekl/a:

Hi @YabbaCoe

 

"testers are generally quite skilled players."

 

I'm afraid this is untrue. As you know it almost everyone has access to these ships from clan testing programs, to ccs, mods, supermantestesters, etc. , and there are tons with low wr&pr. I think it would be fair to say "some skilled testers" not "general".

Generally they are. Clan testing - there are just few clans, which are usually the Top. In these clans you have almost only unicums. Quite huge portion of CCs are also really skilled players. Viewers are watching them for their performances and tips about ships. Of course there are plenty other reasons why viewers are watching particular CC, but game performance is usually one of the main reasons.

In other groups you have bit of everything. But those people know about the game, about its mechanics, how to modify the ship etc. and therefore their perfomance with those ships is in average much higher then server average.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

We haven't directly nerfed premium ships. Those changes are done to some part of game mechanics. Right now there are changes to AP bombs which influences every single ship, whos squadrons have AP bombs.

Then nerf the improved autobounce angles and reduced shell arming time mechanics used by Stalingrad.

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7 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Italian cruisers got introduced last autumn. It's summer now. "Few months" is a stretch...

Yes, you need time to get to tier 10, a lot of people are still grinding it. Basically WG only cares about players who power grind either by money or excessive playing.

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8 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

We haven't directly nerfed premium ships. Those changes are done to some part of game mechanics. Right now there are changes to AP bombs which influences every single ship, whos squadrons have AP bombs

And yet some "global changes" seem as if meant to nerf particular premium ships, with rest of the game getting it as a bonus.

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1 minute ago, Ocsimano18 said:

Yes, you need time to get to tier 10, a lot of people are still grinding it. Basically WG only cares about players who power grind either by money or excessive playing.

It doesn't take 9 months, unless you start very late or procrastinate like hell. I play not too much and the only reason I reach T10 late on most ships is because I don't care about most T10s and just grind like 3 lines at the same time to T8 or T9.

 

And yes, people are still grinding it, just like some people still work on getting Yamato.

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1 hour ago, Supersubway said:

We have a new line, which is awful. Try play t5, t6, t7 of the italian line. Crap play time. Not funny.

People play that just to grind to Venezia.

Which is a gudbote.  

But still worse than 3 other cruisers. ALL ARE RUSSIAN. And they nerf, BADLY, the fourth.

20.5 reload time? Are you kidding me? 20 was already a pain, now 20.5?
And you dramatically transform a truck into a train (+10% on turn) with bullets that now bounce easily? (Use the sap, they don't bounce!)

 

Look at the chart, and tell me what are you thinking. Tell me why three best are from the same country and the 4th get nerfed. So the only way to get a good boat is to choose Russian ships?

 

What a crap. What a C-R-A-P.

 

You don't for sure need me, but I'm not going to spend time on this game anymore.

 

 

mad.jpg

It‘s a well deserved nerf that comes months too late. And just because most players are crap at playing the lower tier ITA cruisers, doesn’t mean that the cruisers are bad. 

1 hour ago, quickr said:

You forgot to add

giphy.gif

 

TY. 

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16 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Generally they are. Clan testing - there are just few clans, which are usually the Top. In these clans you have almost only unicums. Quite huge portion of CCs are also really skilled players. Viewers are watching them for their performances and tips about ships. Of course there are plenty other reasons why viewers are watching particular CC, but game performance is usually one of the main reasons.

In other groups you have bit of everything. But those people know about the game, about its mechanics, how to modify the ship etc. and therefore their perfomance with those ships is in average much higher then server average.

 

 

I agree on some points while i disagree unicum means necessarily skilled. One can get unicum results by spamming cv, fujin (or other op ships per se), playing mostly in divisions, etc. It is easy to find many unicum accounts have not unicum stats in solo after all. I have an alt account which is unicum in both wr&pr but that doesn't make me an RNGsama, does it? I think our definition of skilled is different but that is fine. I get your point. Thanks for the response.

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1 minute ago, Jethro_Grey said:

It‘s a well deserved nerf that comes months too late. And just because most players are crap at playing the lower tier ITA cruisers, doesn’t mean that the cruisers are bad.  

 

This.

At some point, we would all be running around with A-bombs because the average player will always fail regardless of what you give them, since better player would always be better :cap_old:

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Vor 47 Minuten, ColonelPete sagte:

The change will not kill her, but one must question if it was necessary to go that far.

The change of the ricochet angle would have probably been enough.

image.thumb.png.5f17158961e343e7c3bfd8e9b58cdc67.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200620/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

DM outperforms Venezia and was not touched for quite some time. While the RU CA are a balance disaster in waiting.

Venezia is a damage machine, while being good at mitigating damage. She has no hydro or radar to flush out important targets.

Interesting. Do you really consider an 0.11% advantage in winrate "Outperforming"? What about 7,4% more XP, 27,6% more damage and 0,06 points better kill ratio for Venezia?

 

Venezia is kind of over the top like Nevsky will be i am sure. First numbers show a tendency. I hope we will see nerfs for Nevsky too. But even if it will take WG months...sadly.

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1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Pure and simple. In the last CB season Venezia was the ship of choice for 6 slots along with a Hakuryu amongst the competitive clans. Same thing happened to Hindy after CB season 1 which was dominated by them. It's got nothing to do with how the ship performs in randoms, although in the right hands Venezia is a beast.

Ok Fat, but the Venezia choice is not due to the OPness of the ship, but because of the introduction of the CV, which caused a "monoShip" season

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3 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

Interesting. Do you really consider an 0.11% advantage in winrate "Outperforming"? What about 7,4% more XP, 27,6% more damage and 0,06 points better kill ratio for Venezia?

 

Venezia is kind of over the top like Nevsky will be i am sure. First numbers show a tendency. I hope we will see nerfs for Nevsky too. But even if it will take WG months...sadly.

Yes, that is what outperforming means.

As explained, Venezia is a damage machine, she has no utility. She cannot flush out targets or help teammates with hydro.

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Vor 3 Minuten, ColonelPete sagte:

Yes, that is what outperforming means.

As explained, Venezia is a damage machine, she has no utility. She cannot flush out targets or help teammates with hydro.

Sorry but i think you are nitpicking here.

She is a DD predator and has tools to get away after getting in range for that. Ok she needs someone who spots but DM using radar also need some one who shots the target sometimes.

She can hurt every target on longer ranges which isn't DM realisticly capable of. So i disagree.

 

By your logic Hindenburg is so heavily outperformed by DM that considering some buffs would be urgent.

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10 minutes ago, Aetius85 said:

Ok Fat, but the Venezia choice is not due to the OPness of the ship, but because of the introduction of the CV, which caused a "monoShip" season

Of course it was but, WG don't want a CB season dominated by silver ships, they want premium or freemium ships to be there. Players will have played more and paid more to get them.

It's a real shame, the Italian cruiser line is one of the few that rewards good game play and knowing where to aim. Get it wrong and you know about it.

 

And as usual every time I go grind a line and aim for the T10 WG come along and nerf it. Aimed for Hindy, nerfed, Got HiV, nerf'ed, started grinding the Italian cruisers and nerfed.

 

Maybe I should grind out the RU BB's :Smile-_tongue:

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4 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Of course it was but, WG don't want a CB season dominated by silver ships, they want premium or freemium ships to be there. Players will have played more and paid more to get them.

It's a real shame, the Italian cruiser line is one of the few that rewards good game play and knowing where to aim. Get it wrong and you know about it.

 

And as usual every time I go grind a line and aim for the T10 WG come along and nerf it. Aimed for Hindy, nerfed, Got HiV, nerf'ed, started grinding the Italian cruisers and nerfed.

 

Maybe I should grind out the RU BB's :Smile-_tongue:

If they don't remove the CVs from CB or generally rework the game mode  (i.e. fixed number of ships to choose/cooldown between ships/other) I doubt the nerf will have the effect to not use the ship. All the others are simply not effective vs the CV (I tried with DM which AA should be great, but parked near an island as usual game style was targeted by the CV till I was under the sea)

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11 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

By your logic Hindenburg is so heavily outperformed by DM that considering some buffs would be urgent.

Yes. Many ask for an improvement of the AP penetration on german CA for years.

Yorck has slightly better AP pen than Hindenburg after 6km...

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1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

We haven't directly nerfed premium ships. Those changes are done to some part of game mechanics. Right now there are changes to AP bombs which influences every single ship, whos squadrons have AP bombs.

 

Generally they are. Clan testing - there are just few clans, which are usually the Top. In these clans you have almost only unicums. Quite huge portion of CCs are also really skilled players. Viewers are watching them for their performances and tips about ships. Of course there are plenty other reasons why viewers are watching particular CC, but game performance is usually one of the main reasons.

In other groups you have bit of everything. But those people know about the game, about its mechanics, how to modify the ship etc. and therefore their perfomance with those ships is in average much higher then server average.

 

 

but graff zeppeline was really bad since the rework to begin with and now you nerf it eaven more with the ap rework seriously shee despratly needs a buff!! you who look allot at stats should see that ? 

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10 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Maybe I should grind out the RU BB's :Smile-_tongue:

 

Welp, AA nerf meme aside Krem already had her sigma and alpha nerfed since release, so you should be safe there methinks.

 

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Vor 2 Minuten, ColonelPete sagte:

Yes. Many ask for an improvement of the AP penetration on german CA for years.

Yorck has slightly better AP pen than Hindenburg after 6km...

Aha. So you are doing this now...i see.

 

And what about Mino, Wooster, Zao, Henry and Moskva?

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1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

It's a real shame, the Italian cruiser line is one of the few that rewards good game play and knowing where to aim. Get it wrong and you know about it.

Wut? In last CB seson an average Venezia play was sit 16+ km away, fire SAP at anything spoted by your CV and if shot back use double rudder and tight turning to juke shells, if you start to take to much heat just smoke up and kite away until they lose you and return healed after 2 minutes... You will hardly have super accurate aiming with 15 guns from 16+ km now will you... Its like one of the most re**rd proof ships around and thats exaclty where the problem lies, its just HE spam with huge alpha per shell and without fires and there is no real counterplay to it, you can basically only run away and thats it...

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1 minute ago, Donar79 said:

Aha. So you are doing this now...i see.

 

And what about Mino, Wooster, Zao, Henry and Moskva?

Henry needs some improvement too.

One could argue about Moskwa and Zao.

Wooster and Mino look fine.

 

One should note that Tier X is an area where changes for established ships should be small. One of the reasons I am not sure the Venezia changes are not a bit too much as the ricochet change alone is quite significant, but necessary.

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