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darkstar73

Ludendorff NERF

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Hello all. What do you guys think of this? I personally think it´s strange. Change sigma from 1,8 to 1,6 and reloadtime changed from 32sec to 32 sec. It will be one of the worst battleships in higher tiers. Why can´t WG balance their ships in a normal way. They nerf all ships to oblivion. Not just on this one. But most. Starting to get really sick of them. And their arrogace against their community is hillarious. I have always defended WG. But i think am done doing that. 

 

Sorry for the rant. Feels better now :D 

https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/06/0951-buffs-n-nerfs.html?fbclid=IwAR3nh8OY57fPB_5LV3ahdKNgWFmUYkoBtubsvFZSqVw6yQo8errsrwewxMo

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We already commented it on the neighbor thread.

 

Yes, ship will be terrible with this changes. But hey, at least we who were waiting on this ship now can relax and give our Coal for something else.

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So IIRC - basically it'll be New Mexico levels of waywardness in terms of dispersion? 

 

Oh dear. 

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41 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

What do you guys think of this?

Well, its German after all, didnt Siegfried, Agir and Odin story tell you nothing? Petropavlovsk is comming soon, all the buffs went there.

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50 minutes ago, darkstar73 said:

Hello all. What do you guys think of this? I personally think it´s strange. Change sigma from 1,8 to 1,6 and reloadtime changed from 32sec to 32 sec. It will be one of the worst battleships in higher tiers. Why can´t WG balance their ships in a normal way. They nerf all ships to oblivion. Not just on this one. But most. Starting to get really sick of them. And their arrogace against their community is hillarious. I have always defended WG. But i think am done doing that. 

 

Sorry for the rant. Feels better now :D 

https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/06/0951-buffs-n-nerfs.html?fbclid=IwAR3nh8OY57fPB_5LV3ahdKNgWFmUYkoBtubsvFZSqVw6yQo8errsrwewxMo

 

WG always had the Problem that they have pretty much no Idea of the Gameplay part of their Game.

They Balance Purely by Statistical Data.

And Statistical Data means that the Actual Power of a Ship is almost completely Ignored. The only Question that Matters is if the Ship Performs well in the Hand of the Average Potato which makes up 80% of the Playerbase and which therefore will decide absolutely everything because his are the Stats which make up 80% of the Statistical Results that Wargaming uses for Balancing.

 

 

Explained that before in other Topics.

 

But if you take Ship A and Ship B. And let each be Played by 10.000 Average Guys and 100 Unicums.

And Ship A in the hands of the Average Guys Scored a Personal Rating of 1300 because its fairly easy to Play but then Scores only 1500 for the Unicums because the Ship really has no Potential to really Unfold.

While Ship B is a bit harder to Play and thus the Average Guys Score only 1200 PR while the Unicums thanks to the Insane Potential of the Ship Score 2000 PR.

 

Then any Player here Immediately knows. Yeah Ship B is Clearly extremely more Powerful than Ship A. Even tough Ship A is slightly easier to Play.

 

But WG doesnt Care. WG Cares for the Statistics.

 

And well you know. 10.000 Guys with 1300 + 100 Guys with 1500 still only Rates the Ship on 1302 Points in Average.

While 10.000 Guys with 1200 + 100 Guys with 2000 end on 1207 Points in Average.

 

Meaning. That even tough the One Ship is Insanely Overpowered and in Hands of a Decent Player will Completely Wreck the other Ship.

The Statistics will still tell WG. Nah this Ship is Fine. No Problem at all.

 

 

Pommern is a Good Example.

Lots of Guns. Fairly Bad Accuracy to begin with. So alot of Shotgun Potential. Great for Potatoes so they Hit some Shells even if they cant Aim.

Paired with Turtleback Armor and Decent Maneuverability so that Potatoes that Overextended have a better Chance Surviving.

 

So in WGs Statistics. This Ship will be absolutely Awesome. Great Ship. Has to be Nerfed quite a bit more.

Even tough to any Player worth a Penny this Ship is Complete Trash because you have neither the Firepower nor the Accuracy to actually Reward their Skillful Aiming.

 

 

Expect Pommern to be Nerfed much further. Because even if Unicum Players with these Nerfs Drop about 20% in their Performance. For the Potato Players this will be barely any Notable Change as they cant rely on their Aiming anyways.

Meaning in the Average Stats these Nerfs will have Barely any Effect. Hence WG will come up with Further Nerfs in the Future.

 

46 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

We already commented it on the neighbor thread.

 

Yes, ship will be terrible with this changes. But hey, at least we who were waiting on this ship now can relax and give our Coal for something else.

 

The Ship was already Terrible before to be Honest.

38cm Guns with all the 27mm Cruisers Lurking on T9-10 this BB was already pretty Weak. Because most Enemies can Bowtank it pretty easily.

And in T9-10 the 38cm Gun Penetration also is more on Supercruiser Level than Battleships Level. Meaning you cant really Rely on Hitting Citadels here. And Instead are extremely Reliant on DPM Values more like a Cruiser than a Battleship.

 

So that was already very Bad.

With 33 Seconds this is a bit worse now. And with 1.6 Sigma its basicly Shotgun Approach.

It went from Pretty Bad to Extremely Bad.....

 

But dont worry. Shotgun works Great for Potatoes.

So as Described above. We can Expect the Ship to be Nerfed even Further.

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@Sunleader she was shaping up to be a better alscase doe, expect in terms of pen and speed (and concealment i think). Eitherway would be nice to have one OP german ship pls weegee.

And i was going to get her now i cba, ill save the coal for something else besides thunderer now.

 

Plus jean bart and alsase (however its bloody spelt) have 380's so its not the gun caliber of the ship that makes it bad in this case.

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11 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

@Sunleader she was shaping up to be a better alscase doe, expect in terms of pen and speed (and concealment i think). Eitherway would be nice to have one OP german ship pls weegee.

And i was going to get her now i cba, ill save the coal for something else besides thunderer now.

 

Plus jean bart and alsase (however its bloody spelt) have 380's so its not the gun caliber of the ship that makes it bad in this case.

My thoughts exactly.

 

Not a fan of premium ships power creeping tech tree ones. 

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1 hour ago, Azalgor said:

Well, its German after all, didnt Siegfried, Agir and Odin story tell you nothing? Petropavlovsk is comming soon, all the buffs went there.

And yet they are buffing German CV's and nerfing Slava...

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The problem is, that you can't give ships like that "normal guns" and sustain (Odin). Hydro and torpedos for a BB with turtleback armor, there must be down sides, otherwise it would be just an op ship. So I'm not surprised, that they nerf the guns.

(Same I would expect with ships like Kremlin, which gets insane sustain (armor) and also good guns. Kremlin guns should be the worst of all bbs)

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10 minutes ago, Greyshark said:

And yet they are buffing German CV's and nerfing Slava...

But they also nerf the AP-Bomb damage, including or the german CVs. 

 

And they never touched the real issue with the Slava: the "magical-russian" guns. They could nerf the armor of the slave to destroyer levels, this wouldn't change much of the OP-ness of these crazy guns. 

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1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

WG always had the Problem that they have pretty much no Idea of the Gameplay part of their Game.

They Balance Purely by Statistical Data.

And Statistical Data means that the Actual Power of a Ship is almost completely Ignored. The only Question that Matters is if the Ship Performs well in the Hand of the Average Potato which makes up 80% of the Playerbase and which therefore will decide absolutely everything because his are the Stats which make up 80% of the Statistical Results that Wargaming uses for Balancing.

 

 

Explained that before in other Topics.

 

But if you take Ship A and Ship B. And let each be Played by 10.000 Average Guys and 100 Unicums.

And Ship A in the hands of the Average Guys Scored a Personal Rating of 1300 because its fairly easy to Play but then Scores only 1500 for the Unicums because the Ship really has no Potential to really Unfold.

While Ship B is a bit harder to Play and thus the Average Guys Score only 1200 PR while the Unicums thanks to the Insane Potential of the Ship Score 2000 PR.

 

Then any Player here Immediately knows. Yeah Ship B is Clearly extremely more Powerful than Ship A. Even tough Ship A is slightly easier to Play.

 

But WG doesnt Care. WG Cares for the Statistics.

 

And well you know. 10.000 Guys with 1300 + 100 Guys with 1500 still only Rates the Ship on 1302 Points in Average.

While 10.000 Guys with 1200 + 100 Guys with 2000 end on 1207 Points in Average.

 

Meaning. That even tough the One Ship is Insanely Overpowered and in Hands of a Decent Player will Completely Wreck the other Ship.

The Statistics will still tell WG. Nah this Ship is Fine. No Problem at all.

 

 

Pommern is a Good Example.

Lots of Guns. Fairly Bad Accuracy to begin with. So alot of Shotgun Potential. Great for Potatoes so they Hit some Shells even if they cant Aim.

Paired with Turtleback Armor and Decent Maneuverability so that Potatoes that Overextended have a better Chance Surviving.

 

So in WGs Statistics. This Ship will be absolutely Awesome. Great Ship. Has to be Nerfed quite a bit more.

Even tough to any Player worth a Penny this Ship is Complete Trash because you have neither the Firepower nor the Accuracy to actually Reward their Skillful Aiming.

 

 

Expect Pommern to be Nerfed much further. Because even if Unicum Players with these Nerfs Drop about 20% in their Performance. For the Potato Players this will be barely any Notable Change as they cant rely on their Aiming anyways.

Meaning in the Average Stats these Nerfs will have Barely any Effect. Hence WG will come up with Further Nerfs in the Future.

 

 

The Ship was already Terrible before to be Honest.

38cm Guns with all the 27mm Cruisers Lurking on T9-10 this BB was already pretty Weak. Because most Enemies can Bowtank it pretty easily.

And in T9-10 the 38cm Gun Penetration also is more on Supercruiser Level than Battleships Level. Meaning you cant really Rely on Hitting Citadels here. And Instead are extremely Reliant on DPM Values more like a Cruiser than a Battleship.

 

So that was already very Bad.

With 33 Seconds this is a bit worse now. And with 1.6 Sigma its basicly Shotgun Approach.

It went from Pretty Bad to Extremely Bad.....

 

But dont worry. Shotgun works Great for Potatoes.

So as Described above. We can Expect the Ship to be Nerfed even Further.

 

exactly the same story as for CV

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2 minutes ago, principat121 said:

But they also nerf the AP-Bomb damage, including or the german CVs. 

 

And they never touched the real issue with the Slava: the "magical-russian" guns. They could nerf the armor of the slave to destroyer levels, this wouldn't change much of the OP-ness of these crazy guns. 

They just nerfed the dmg and reload of said guns...

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1 minute ago, Communist_Loli said:

They just nerfed the dmg and reload of said guns...

 

So when it snipes you for two or three citadels from 25km you will lose a little less HP then before. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

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1 minute ago, Communist_Loli said:

They just nerfed the dmg and reload of said guns...

Who cares if you can hit and delete cruisers over 20km? And I am not talking about some lucky salvo. I am talking about doing this multiple times in every match, again and again. The magical accuracy make this possible. Who cares about the slightly nerfed damage and reload as long as you can still consistently hit your target over the whole map. 

 

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Just now, fumtu said:

 

So when it snipes you for two or three citadels from 25km you will lose a little less HP then before. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

If you're sailing around with full broadside and getting citadeled from 25km away, then I'd say you deserved it :^) 

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Just now, Communist_Loli said:

If you're sailing around with full broadside and getting citadeled from 25km away, then I'd say you deserved it :^) 

I bet you NEVER angle against a Slava (or any other ship) in 25km distance. And think about it: In this distance the Slava will most likely be not spotted for you. But you might are, by a DD or CV or what else. And I also doubt that if you are in an engagement with an enemy, you pay little to no attention to a Slave sitting on the other side of the map. 

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7 minutes ago, Communist_Loli said:

If you're sailing around with full broadside and getting citadeled from 25km away, then I'd say you deserved it :^) 

 

Well guess what? The biggest map in WoWs is 48x48km. So when someone has 25km range and accurate guns on that range it is not that hard to find someone who is broadsiding to you while not being aware that he is doing that. Sure you deserve to be obliterated on one side of the map by someone who is on the other side of it. 

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1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

The Ship was already Terrible before to be Honest.

38cm Guns with all the 27mm Cruisers Lurking on T9-10 this BB was already pretty Weak. Because most Enemies can Bowtank it pretty easily.

And in T9-10 the 38cm Gun Penetration also is more on Supercruiser Level than Battleships Level. Meaning you cant really Rely on Hitting Citadels here. And Instead are extremely Reliant on DPM Values more like a Cruiser than a Battleship.

 

So that was already very Bad.

With 33 Seconds this is a bit worse now. And with 1.6 Sigma its basicly Shotgun Approach.

It went from Pretty Bad to Extremely Bad.....

 

But dont worry. Shotgun works Great for Potatoes.

So as Described above. We can Expect the Ship to be Nerfed even Further.

Actually, no ... it wont.

 

They will simply try to push in to get a better shoot and die because they cannot hit anything reliable and the long reload will make then try to get a better aim since they cannot simply wait it out, its not like amazing balls Conqueror were after some tries they will hit, 33 seconds for low caliber guns (Tier IX anyway) is dumb.

 

Besides I am bad at the game and even I know you just dont take Friedrich der Große, give it worst guns and say "we give her torps, its balanced", the only way this ship can perform is trying to torpedo other ships on brawling that doesnt happen often at Tier IX because your main guns are useless.

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2 minutes ago, principat121 said:

I bet you NEVER angle against a Slava (or any other ship) in 25km distance. And think about it: In this distance the Slava will most likely be not spotted for you. But you might are, by a DD or CV or what else. And I also doubt that if you are in an engagement with an enemy, you pay little to no attention to a Slave sitting on the other side of the map. 

I wouldn't blame my lack of situational awareness on a ship...

 

If you get hit by a salvo 25 km away, you fully deserved it, unless you're stationary. A volley from 25 KM can EASILY be dodged in a cruiser just by altering your course, no excuses. If you mess something like that up, then you fully deserve to get punished. 

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Just now, Communist_Loli said:

A volley from 25 KM can EASILY be dodged in a cruiser just by altering your course, no excuses.

ONLY if you are aware that there is someone shooting you...:Smile_bajan2:

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15 minutes ago, principat121 said:

But they also nerf the AP-Bomb damage, including or the german CVs. 

That's global nerf for all CV's, not only for German. At the same time they are buffing AP rockets. Guess which nation will use them?

 

Quote

And they never touched the real issue with the Slava: the "magical-russian" guns. They could nerf the armor of the slave to destroyer levels, this wouldn't change much of the OP-ness of these crazy guns. 

What armor, what are you talking about? As far I can see they are nerfing her firepower.

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Just now, principat121 said:

ONLY if you are aware that there is someone shooting you...:Smile_bajan2:

That's why Priority Target is a thing :cap_like:

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42 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

@Sunleader she was shaping up to be a better alscase doe, expect in terms of pen and speed (and concealment i think). Eitherway would be nice to have one OP german ship pls weegee.

And i was going to get her now i cba, ill save the coal for something else besides thunderer now.

 

Plus jean bart and alsase (however its bloody spelt) have 380's so its not the gun caliber of the ship that makes it bad in this case.

 

Actually. If JB had just the 380s it would make the Ship very Bad in Fact.

The Reason why JB is Powerful despite the weak 380mm Guns. Is because these Guns are Buffed to Extreme Measures.

Main Battery Reload Base is 26 Seconds. Thanks to which Jean Bart has very high DPM Values already despite only having 8 Guns. In Fact. Its DPM with these 8 Guns is already fairly close to Ludendorf before they Nerf it now.

All 8 Main Battery Guns are on the Front. Allowing the Ship to use its Full DPM Value without Showing even the Slightest Broadside. Which is extremely Valuable as well.

The 8 Main Battery Guns. Which are 2x4 Turrets which are right above each other. And are given a 1.9 Sigma. Meaning these Guns actually Hit very Good.

And Finally. Jean Bart gets a Main Battery Reloadbooster. Which allows you to Fire 2-3 Salvos in 30-40 Seconds. Which makes her Extremely Dangerous.

 

So its not that this Gun Caliber doesnt make Ships Bad. Its just that Jean Bart gets Insane Buffs to them which make them Valid.

 

8 minutes ago, HassenderZerhacker said:

 

exactly the same story as for CV

 

Yep.

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@Sunleader She has a sigma of 1.9? Thought it was 1.7 or something. Having your turrets all at the front without the need to turn is good, but makes her really easy to get crossfired so it has its down sides. I find the battery reloader to be highly situational only good for low hp ships or those turning broadside, otherwise due to her shells going all mental like sometimes.

 

She is a good ship, but i would still take georgia over her. DPM is always a highly questionable stat because that shows you how much damage she would do if a target was still, and/or broadside, and every shell hitting (hense why the is-6 despite its high dpm at the time, never got to use it due to questionable accuracy and poor pen).

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