What is so good about Sinop? (and other soviet BBs)

[KubiG37]

Hi,

I'd like to know what do you think about this ship, according to some forum threads, the wiki, and WR stats, it sounds like this ship (the entire line in fact) should be awesome, yet I can't see why:

Few examples, from the Sinop wiki:

*Extraordinarily good armor* - what is extraordinarily good about it? I haven't found it good at all, in fact, when shooting another Sinop showing broadside it is maybe the easiest ship to kill. Bow on, I still get penned a lot, the turrets get penned and guns taken out, it catches fire and takes HE dmg like any other ship I played...

*Strong secondary armament* - the basic range is 5,5 km and it's just 3x2 152 mm guns, if someone's that close, it's a DD and you are about to die.
*Good rudder shift for a battleship* - excuse me, this ship needs half of the map to turn around and it definitely isn't 'fast'.
 

So from an enemy point of view, what is so good about it, that other BBs can't match? The guns don't seem that incredible either, they don't pen angled battleships, they don't deal  dmg reliably at long range, and even at short range I still don't feel like I'm playing some great 'close combat ship', the dispersion is still bad and it overpens a lot.

The others: Izmail, I hated that ship and sold it at first possible moment, the armor is just terrible and the gun layout & stats even worse, it's a floating shotgun, yet it's praised. Looking at stats of Vladivostok it looks like a marginal upgrade, if an upgrade at all.

[lafeel]

Get in closer, this line prefers to do it's business at 12km or less.

 

Also under no circumstances show your unangled broadside to a enemy BB.

[doerhoff_damian]

Tier 3-5 are ok but not Special but they  do have good Armor.

Tier 6 Ismail: Fast Battleship with 12 very accurate hard Hitting 356mm Guns but you have a very exposed Citadell as a Trade off.

This was not my Type of Battleship since I like Brawlers like the German BBs but the Ismail is probably the best Cruiser-Killer at that Tier.

And if you can avoid too much Attention from enemy BBs she can perform very good

Tier 7 Sinop: This is a very strong Ship. Very Good Firepover with 9 406mm Guns and good Bow Armor..

You just Need to stay angled agaist enemy BBs and the Sinop is a Tank.

Tier 8 Wladivostok: Same as the Sinop but with 32mm Plating. So Big Guns from High Tier Ships can not overmatch you like they to with Tier 7 Ships.

Same is true for Tier 9-10 but the Tier 10 Kremlin is specially well armored, has a lot of Health  and those 457mm Guns.

Russian Ships do not Always have Good Sigma but they do have the Russian Dispercion Elipse that is very small and very good.

If you can avoid giving Broadside to enemy BBs than Tier 7-10 can be OP

[belalugosisdead]

13 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

Tier 3-5 are not ok but not Special

 

 

the T5 is a very strong BB when angled. The front amor scheme is simply wow. 

[lafeel]

8 minutes ago, belalugosisdead said:

 

the T5 is a very strong BB when angled. The front amor scheme is simply wow. 

Guns are some of the best of her tier too, especially if you remember the 12km rule. Also, let's not forget, her speed is second only to the Kongou(s) and Guilio Cesare.

[Chaos_Umbra]

29 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

Hi,

I'd like to know what do you think about this ship, according to some forum threads, the wiki, and WR stats, it sounds like this ship (the entire line in fact) should be awesome, yet I can't see why:

Few examples, from the Sinop wiki:

*Extraordinarily good armor* - what is extraordinarily good about it? I haven't found it good at all, in fact, when shooting another Sinop showing broadside it is maybe the easiest ship to kill. Bow on, I still get penned a lot, the turrets get penned and guns taken out, it catches fire and takes HE dmg like any other ship I played....

It does have god tier armour, but it has a High citadel so if not angled at close ranges of course you will and rightly so get blapped, Kremlin's armour is so think that even Yamato can have trouble citadeling it when broadside at Mid ranges. All ships in the line have and Icebreaker bow that can't be overmatched. They have a fast reloading Damage Control which means unless you waste them you should never end up being burnt or flooded out, they also out spot some cruisers. Also forgot to meantion that they have some of the thickest decks which means the majority of Cruiser HE does no damage and just shatters meaning that it takes minutes of focus fire from like 6 ships to sink 1 bow in Kremlin.

 

33 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

*Strong secondary armament* - the basic range is 5,5 km and it's just 3x2 152 mm guns, if someone's that close, it's a DD and you are about to die.

Don't know where you got that from it is incorrect, but they are good close range cause they have super accuracy when fighting close if you shoot HE at a close DD with only the front guns you will often land all the shells dealing massive damage and having fast turret traverse also helps loads when in close.

 

35 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

*Good rudder shift for a battleship* - excuse me, this ship needs half of the map to turn around and it definitely isn't 'fast'.

It does have a good rudder shift just terrible turning circle, but still enough to allow you to reverse and keep angling your ship to mitigate how many torps you take.

 

38 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

So from an enemy point of view, what is so good about it, that other BBs can't match? The guns don't seem that incredible either, they don't pen angled battleships, they don't deal  dmg reliably at long range, and even at short range I still don't feel like I'm playing some great 'close combat ship', the dispersion is still bad and it overpens a lot.

Other BBs are no where near as tanky with such good ballistics and accurate guns, on each tier my RU BBs are top of all same tier BBs in terms of accuracy the only ship I own that matched it was the Thunderer, in fact on one of the higher tier ones I got 34% hit ratio, where as most other BBs sit around 28-30% hit ratio, while in game the dispersion stat looks horrible that is only the horizontal dispersion these ships have the best vertical dispersion in the game which means when shooting broadside targets you are much less likely to have shells go high or low even at max range, if you can't hit stuff with them it is your aim that is off. It will overpen some cruisers up close like a lot of High shell Speed BBs do.

 

43 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

The others: Izmail, I hated that ship and sold it at first possible moment, the armor is just terrible and the gun layout & stats even worse, it's a floating shotgun, yet it's praised. Looking at stats of Vladivostok it looks like a marginal upgrade, if an upgrade at all.

If you want a shot gun play any of the tech tree RN BBs they can completely bracket a broadside cruiser at 6km and have no shells hit (Bracket means in 1 salvo shells went high, low, left and right with none hitting).

[ColonelPete]

46 minutes ago, KubiG37 said:

Hi,

I'd like to know what do you think about this ship, according to some forum threads, the wiki, and WR stats, it sounds like this ship (the entire line in fact) should be awesome, yet I can't see why:

Few examples, from the Sinop wiki:

*Extraordinarily good armor* - what is extraordinarily good about it? I haven't found it good at all, in fact, when shooting another Sinop showing broadside it is maybe the easiest ship to kill. Bow on, I still get penned a lot, the turrets get penned and guns taken out, it 

Hint: BB are not supposed to show broadside to other BB.

Apart from that I am quite sure the other threads covered the strengths and weaknesses of RU BB.

[kremlyncek]

mystical aura of russophobia, nothing else

[lafeel]

1 hour ago, KubiG37 said:

*Strong secondary armament* - the basic range is 5,5 km and it's just 3x2 152 mm guns, if someone's that close, it's a DD and you are about to die.

3x2, 2x1 152mm, oh and 3x2 130mm PER SIDE actually. For tier 7 that is actually pretty good, even if the range isn't.

[doerhoff_damian]

You should not rush Battleships with a DD.

If they can see you every battleship and every Cruiser will Shoot you and you will die while the BB survives

Torp from Stealth or from behind Islands and use smoke to cover Allies or to Stealth Fire and Cap. and spot for the Team

The short Range of the Secondaries on the Sinop are no Problem for the BB Driver

DDS rushing a Battleship ionly works in low Tier

[lafeel]

4 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

DDS rushing a Battleship ionly works in low Tier

Works just fine against isolated BB's should be noted.

[doerhoff_damian]

Vor 1 Minute, lafeel sagte:

Works just fine against isolated BB's should be noted

I would still torp from Stealth.

I saw so many DDs get killed when they rushed the BB and I killed alot myself

[lafeel]

10 minutes ago, doerhoff_damian said:

I would still torp from Stealth.

I saw so many DDs get killed when they rushed the BB and I killed alot myself

The trick is to kill the cruisers first, yanno. :P

[GulvkluderGuld]

Play 10 games in uss Colorado, then come back here.

 

yes they are the same tier. No you wouldn't think so would you?

[_DemonGuard_]

He's talking like the Sinop has bad armor and guns while having a 69% winrate with it.

 

Bad troll attempt: 0/10.

[lossi_2018]

I had it full sec built, only BB not affected by opponents for 60% of my games. If I played it smart it almost always did a good job. If you make a stupid move though (I do that frequently cuz I'm bored) then expect a decent opponent to hurt you bad. Of course as almost all BBs it is affected from the current meta. A DD will sink you, a CV will also and the cruisers will burn you but that's on the class not on Sinop. In his tier it was the best imo. Noted that I haven't played it in quite a while since I've moved up. Now tier 8 is same thing but not as impressive, I like Riche better there cuz you face much more dangerous opponents and I need to move around more. Seeing your stats I really think it is serving you pretty well, I'm content more easily perhaps :) 

[Ronchabale]

Best thing about Sinop is the guns, also very strong armour when used cleverly

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

Buffed Vertical dispersion

[Miragetank90]

USSR BBs in general:

 

+ Among the most tanky ships at their tiers when played correctly.

+ Fast damage control party cooldown.

+ Excellent turret traverse at high tier.

+ Noticeably improved accuracy at closer ranges relative to other BBs

+ Good speed, acceleration and rudder shift

 

- High citadels.

- Limited damage control party charges

- One less heal charge relative to other BBs(and it's a standard heal) 

- Slower reload relative to other BBs

- Very random, inconsistent long range accuracy.

- Maximum ranges are relatively short.

- Massive turning circle radii

 

So what you get out of this line are powerful, durable ships capable of absorbing a lot of punishment, specialising at punishing enemies at closer ranges as opposed to long. 

 

[Excavatus]

Starting with Pyotr Veliky, 

RU BB line is THE strongest BB line in the game at med and close range..

No other BB line can match them.. 

Put kuznetsov in it.. you now have an immortal Battleship! 

 

[Donar79]

Vor 8 Stunden, lafeel sagte:

Works just fine against isolated BB's should be noted.

I would say rushing a ru BB is at least debatable. I surprised enough DDs with sometimes ridiculous accurate short range salvos. 8 out of 9 isn't that uncommon at 6km

 

I guess KM BB weren't allowed to be what RU BB now are.

[Miragetank90]

1 hour ago, Donar79 said:

I would say rushing a ru BB is at least debatable. I surprised enough DDs with sometimes ridiculous accurate short range salvos. 8 out of 9 isn't that uncommon at 6km

 

I guess KM BB weren't allowed to be what RU BB now are.

 

It seems few people on here hold this view but I think KM BBs are fine. 

In fact, thanks to the buffs, imo they are downright strong now. 

 

Not nearly as weak or helpless as some people make them out to be. 

[Donar79]

Vor 8 Minuten, Miragetank90 sagte:

 

It seems few people on here hold this view but I think KM BBs are fine. 

In fact, thanks to the buffs, imo they are downright strong now. 

 

Not nearly as weak or helpless as some people make them out to be. 

Not saying they are weak. If you can use their strenghts they are really good.

But what i really don't like are unreliable guns. And KM BBs in that regard are on the thin ridge between extremly fun and extremly frustrating.

As KM BBs came out i kinda could see why they would have been to strong with accurate guns at short range.

Suddenly being very tanky and having good guns isn't a problem anymore.

[DFens_666]

19 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

Suddenly being very tanky and having good guns isn't a problem anymore. 

 

I think, being able to show broadside without risking insta deletion at closerange isnt a bad treat. I remember several times showing broadside with GK because i had to / could do it. Couldnt do it with a russian BB the same way...

[Arrive_Alive]

Imo T9 and T10 RU BBs aren't that good. Or at least not very fun to play. It's just that they attract all the fire from the potatoes and this might win you the game if the own team is smart enough to take advantage of this. Gun-wise they are mediocre compared to other BB-lines. The usual engagement ranges in high-tier randoms aren't suited for their guns to shine. So it's all about the durability.

 

T5 to T8 are OP and Sinop is just a bad joke in terms of balance. Compare it to a Nagato or Colorado...