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Polkadot9000

Can someone explain to me the Japanese-American carrier balancing.

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Beta Tester
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Lets face it, with carriers there are two things that mattter. Your number of groups and the quality of the planes.

Tier 4

American groups = 2

Japanese groups = 3

American fighters are slower, with worse survivability. Japanese torp bombers are only slightly worse (but only because they don't have an upgrade)

Tier 5

American groups = 3

Japanese groups = 4

All of the American aircraft are worse in every measurable way, except for the upgraded dive bombers which are 1knot faster than the japanese

Tier 6

American groups = 3

Japanese groups = 5

There are again some mild differences (1 knot here 1knot there) between them in aircraft, except the American fighters are 20 knots slower

Tier 7

American groups = 4

Japanese groups = 6

The aircraft are virtually the same except for the Japanese dive-bombers which gain an additional 2100 damage per bomb (almost 1/2 extra compared to American)

Tier 8

American groups = 4

Japanese groups = 6

The aircraft are relatively similar (some extra damage for american dive bombers, some extra speed for the japanese fighters, american fighters have a small speed advantage)

I think from all of this we can see a trend here.

The American carriers are getting shafted, the only reason people would go down them is to get to a higher tier carrier which is (obviously going to be better).

Not only that, but the hangar sizes are roughly the same for both the American and japanese carriers, so there isn't a particular advantage in the number of aircraft for either side.

So can somebody please explain to me where the balancing is?

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Weekend Tester
131 posts
3,216 battles

You do know japense air groups are 4 planes us 6 ?

actually i think you will find its the other way.

 

i see you havent played ijn carriers try them first

Edited by kwk75l48

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Beta Tester
263 posts
2,578 battles

planes in an american group: 6

planes in an japanse group: 4

 

1 vs 1 america always win

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Players
1,497 posts
2,693 battles

Lets face it, with carriers there are two things that mattter. Your number of groups and the quality of the planes.

Tier 4

American groups = 2

Japanese groups = 3

American fighters are slower, with worse survivability. Japanese torp bombers are only slightly worse (but only because they don't have an upgrade)

Tier 5

American groups = 3

Japanese groups = 4

All of the American aircraft are worse in every measurable way, except for the upgraded dive bombers which are 1knot faster than the japanese

Tier 6

American groups = 3

Japanese groups = 5

There are again some mild differences (1 knot here 1knot there) between them in aircraft, except the American fighters are 20 knots slower

Tier 7

American groups = 4

Japanese groups = 6

The aircraft are virtually the same except for the Japanese dive-bombers which gain an additional 2100 damage per bomb (almost 1/2 extra compared to American)

Tier 8

American groups = 4

Japanese groups = 6

The aircraft are relatively similar (some extra damage for american dive bombers, some extra speed for the japanese fighters, american fighters have a small speed advantage)

I think from all of this we can see a trend here.

The American carriers are getting shafted, the only reason people would go down them is to get to a higher tier carrier which is (obviously going to be better).

Not only that, but the hangar sizes are roughly the same for both the American and japanese carriers, so there isn't a particular advantage in the number of aircraft for either side.

So can somebody please explain to me where the balancing is?

wow are you serius i mean you left out the biggest diffrence 

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Weekend Tester
397 posts
5,850 battles

wow are you serius i mean you left out the biggest diffrence 

 

The service time ?

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Beta Tester
5 posts
2,791 battles

no the the size of the groups 6 aircraft (usa) v 4 aircraft (ijn), i am getting sick and tired of feeding groups to us cv's . even when i got better aircraft or 2 ijn cv's manage to gang up on 1 us group 2 to 1 (the max number of fighters is 1 per ijn cv below tier 7) you r very if u shoot down 1 or 2 maybe 3 before both ijn groups r blown to pices. it's not even funny.

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Beta Tester
131 posts
11,640 battles

hmm, a little advice try out things before complaining. IRL the IJN had superior fighters up to the last year of the war, they also had superior dive and torpedo bombers until the SBD dauntless ( for dive)

The only place the US did bether was at damage mitigation and the focus on saving human lifes and ships/planes. 

Thats ultimatly what lost the war for japan, their massivly waste of human lifes and material in the never withdraw tactics they used.

So the belief that the allied had superior ships and planes because they won aint real, but at the end of the war when the axis ability to produce and develop new ships/planes was severly hampered the allied did get som very good equipment ;)

an exsample, all have heard of the AK 47,,, well its a replica of the STG 43 / MP 43/44, a german assault rifle made at the last part of the war.

A lot of the tactics and material developed by the axis during the war is the bases for modern army/navy/airforce.

 

WG has done a great job trying to make the 2 major differenses in CV tactics aply ingame, the IJN with a very good attack focus and the US navy with focus on defence /air superiority  (witch they didnt have until the last months of the war, max close to last year )

And the US navy did rely heavy on dive bombers while the ijn had torp bombers. this is somewhat decided by the planes at hand and the planes developed, The superior fighter during most of the war was the zero in all its variants, again the drawback was the poor pilot protection wich made IJN lose huge numbers of experienced aircrew, well i dont have all the facts remebered, but its found reading most common history books, my advice is to read the newest ones due to some inacurate assesments in the older ones ;)

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Players
18 posts
2,761 battles

Portrayal is one thing, but game balance is another. Given how air combat works - the americans have a clear advantage. Their AA and fighter cover outright negate the supposed Japanese bomber-carriers' role in matches. 

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Players
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Portrayal is one thing, but game balance is another. Given how air combat works - the americans have a clear advantage. Their AA and fighter cover outright negate the supposed Japanese bomber-carriers' role in matches. 

 

I have to agree. late on in WW2 everybody was doing bombng it was just as effective and you had a better survivabilty rate. yet this game is completely addicted to torps (don't get me wrong but i looove torping a battleship) but this is silly.

 

I also question why IJN carriers are so shite. Their aircraft and tactics were better until after midway and the advent of the Thatch weave and the F6F. and last time i checked both sides had a standard 4 aircraft grouping.

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Beta Tester
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this must be a joke account, the fellow hasnt played a single game co-op or competetive...

 

if not hes had a knee jerk reaction seeing the IJN have more squadrons per carrier without looking at squadron numbers

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Beta Tester
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an exsample, all have heard of the AK 47,,, well its a replica of the STG 43 / MP 43/44, a german assault rifle made at the last part of the war.

 

This is false. The Ak-47 (or the AKM as we should call it) had almost nothing simmilar to the MP44. Its a lie, that people foolishly repeat over and over....
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Beta Tester
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The American carriers are getting shafted, the only reason people would go down them is to get to a higher tier carrier which is (obviously going to be better)

....
So can somebody please explain to me where the balancing is?

 

You miss another vital thing - apart from those already mentioned by others:

 

With the appropriate captain skill SLOWER does not mean WORSE but BETTER.

 

So US CVs have MORE fighters per squad which are BETTER in aircombat compared to the FEWER IJN fighters... yeah, poor little US CVs... sooo unbalanced...

 

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Players
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Balancing explained (for all ships not just carriers); THE GAME IS IN BETA, only two of the nation's are currently in the game. Calling things imbalanced when you are only looking at half of the picture is just stupid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Beta Tester
101 posts
336 battles

Balancing explained (for all ships not just carriers); THE GAME IS IN BETA, only two of the nation's are currently in the game. Calling things imbalanced when you are only looking at half of the picture is just stupid.

 

 

Premium shop in place -> check

No more progress wipe -> check

 

WG can call it whatever they want, the game is basically launched at this point. The games industry does what it can get away with if we let them, including calling an unfinished game that is fully monetized a beta.

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Beta Tester
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I don't have the lists in front of me (can't connect for some reason) but there's another detail.

 

The tier 4 and tier 10 IJN CV does exactly the same torpedo damage per plane.

The tier 10 US CV does 4000 more damage per torpedo than the Langley's starting plane.

 

Same with the dive bombers, US Ones do noticeably more damage from the Independence onwards.

 

The actual number of planes each carrier can put in the air per tier is off mostly by 2. (+2 US tier 5, +2 IJN tier 6, otherwise identical.). 

 

THe rest of the difference is up to style and preference, really. I've found that US torpedo bombers are better at 'broadsiding' battleships. Well aimed and timed, you can hit with 6 of 6 torpedoes, giving a potential instant kill. With IJN ones it's pretty difficult to hit with 3 of 4; usually 2 of 4 is a 'good' hit. However, with the IJN TB's you are more flexible, and it's easier to box in targets or play games with setting ships on fire or flooding them after repairs.

 

There are other differences - US AA being better, IJN CV's being faster, etc. I would say the balance is not so bad. 

 

At tier 6 the difference in fighters is starting to get really noticeable. I've had the upgraded IJN ones try to shoot down dive bombers, but ran out of ammunition before shooting down a single one! At that point, even if you'd prefer to have the option of having fighters instead of going fighter-less, it's not really a point. Also, at tier 6 is the first stage at which the US fighters are better than the IJN ones individually, and not just due to being in a bigger squadron.

 

At tier 6 - which is as far as I've gotten - you're at fairly high risk of running into very frustrating games. An AA carrier will shut you down, basically. Playing AS an AA carrier, you run the risk of not running into a carrier, which equally makes for a boring game.

Edited by Eisenengel

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Beta Tester
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THe rest of the difference is up to style and preference, really. I've found that US torpedo bombers are better at 'broadsiding' battleships. Well aimed and timed, you can hit with 6 of 6 torpedoes, giving a potential instant kill. With IJN ones it's pretty difficult to hit with 3 of 4; usually 2 of 4 is a 'good' hit. However, with the IJN TB's you are more flexible, and it's easier to box in targets or play games with setting ships on fire or flooding them after repairs.

 

Add to that the different length of targets.

 

Most US BBs are rather short compared to the IJN BBs.

 

So we get this situation (releasing torpedoes at 90° at broadside, target driving straight ahead and not evading (standard situation *cough*)):

 

Single IJN TB squad releasing it's FOUR torpedoes against an IJN BB will hit it with TWO torpedoes mostly.

Single IJN TB squad releasing it's FOUR torpedoes against an US BB will hit it with ONE torpedo, unless the BB is lucky and get's into the slot between two torpedoes, so they pass it bow and stern.

Single US TB squad releasing it's SIX topedoes against an IJN BB will hit it with FIVE torpedoes mostly, but even six is possible.

Single US TB squad releasing it's SIX torpedoes against an US BB will hit it with THREE to FOUR torpedoes mostly.

 

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