Tutorials, tooltips and streamlining in-game information

[_Teob_]

We should have more tutorials and the mechanics of the game should be explained more in-depth. Game mechanics are obscure and not always clear and tooltips leave a lot to be desired for.

I want to qualify this by saying that not everyone wants or needs to improve and that's totally fine. However there are very few ways to assist those players who do want to improve.

 

So what can be done? Well I think it falls on WG to make some changes. We as a community can contribute but we need a framework first. 

Some solutions:

- A buddy system. Experienced players volunteer and are automatically added as a friend to new players at random. This would mean that any new player would at least have someone who they can ask questions and get some initial guidance from.

 

- Tooltips. Look, we need more of them and with more details. I just spent the last 10 minutes trying to find where exactly it is explained that HE will do 33% of its dmg on a pen. The only place I found that is the wiki. Which I might not even know it exists because while there is a link to it from the main site, there is not link to it from the game!

 

- More tutorials and the tutorials need to be more in-depth. Stuff like smoke firing penalties, view ranges, minimap settings etc. should be explained in more detail. I should also have an option of "going back to school" at any point in the game and to learn more about the game mechanics. 

 

 

Some great examples of usage of tutorials and in-game help:

Civilization's civilopedia. Essentially an encyclopedia of all game-related topics with a handy search function. 

Total War Attila's wiki/encyclopedia. Same principle but it can be accessed and looks the same from both in game as well as a stand alone web link and every time you right click any unit/building in game the corresponding article is pulled up.

America's Army 3 basic training. Around 45 minutes of what it says on the tin: basic training. But at the end of it you pretty much knew everything you needed to in order to be a green recruit. The fact that it's basic doesn't stop it from being very in-depth.

 

Also, in some cases we already have resources for these things. We have videos and articles, they are just hard to find. At the very least having more prominent links would be very good.

 

I want to put some pressure on WG to do something about this as well as ask the community to move toward a more constructive approach to player skill rather than complaining about other players. We need solutions, not complaints.

 

 

This whole thing was inspired by recently watching a stream from one of my favourite WoT streamers trying his hand again at WoWs. I think watching a highly competitive and experienced WoT player go through trying to figure out the game is incredibly valuable as a source of information on what can be improved. Not only because you see how the streamer is reacting but also their audience. It's essentially qualitative market research playing out live in front of you. It is also very entertaining.

I will link just that stream here for reference.

 

I will add any other ideas to this post (and credit their authors). I really want as much constructive feedback and discussion as possible here. Please don't drop by just to make snarky remarks - if you have nothing constructive to say, move on.

 

Edit: I forgot to say that I realise that most things take time and money so I am not expecting miracles.

[_HomTanks_]

On behalf of improving the gameplay quality, I volunteer helping newcomers, could be asking questions or divisioning up with me (I won’t mind although i am solo player). 

[Panocek]

Idea is sound. Issue is, most players don't care.

[MZL_Makrele]

Everything you say is totally true and I strongly support it. Coming here from the Railway Simulation - over there are good examples for helpful tutorials too. In Train Sim World for example there is a ca. 5 minute tutorial on how to handle a new locomotive or train consist. Same for a new route (which is the equivalent of a map here).

 

Vor 36 Minuten, _Teob_ sagte:

 

- A buddy system. Experienced players volunteer and are automatically added as a friend to new players at random. This would mean that any new player would at least have someone who they can ask questions and get some initial guidance from.

 

Even as some of the more experienced mates often have a go at me when I dare to open my mouth here and even if my stats give room for shaming (I do not feel ashamed about them) I still could and would help trying to be a buddy for absolute beginners, so here is a volunteer for this.

 

Cheers

Norbert

[Camperdown]

I would be willing to help as a buddy.

[Allied_Winter]

Welp ... usually I'd be the guy to chime in saying that it probably is a futile task. Given that most of us know by now WG's stance on that matter. Sadly.

 

BUT, nonetheless, let's try our best to pressurize the vessel.

 

I throw in my hat and offer to:

 

- Help out in divisions. Although this one begs the question how this can happen with something similar already in place: The recruiting station? An integration could be possible? Viable?

 

- Tutorials: Especially since WG has already the operations logic in place, expanding that into different training operations is - on paper - not that hard. I guess the most difficult part is to agree on a structure on how these tutorials should look. Here I'd refer to e.g. Gran Turismo 4. You have a certain task to master (beat a time through this sector in GT4, beat a certain amount of potential damage in X minutes in Warships). The bigger the number, the harder it'd be to achieve, the better the rewards could be. And I'd gladly offer to WG that I write these kind of storyboards for such tutorials. 

 

Imho those tutorials should be heavily hinted at but NOT mandatory. As others pointed out already: Not everybody wants to learn. But, yes, we should make it easier (more accessible) to those that want to.

 

Maybe WG can chime in and share their "expectations" on how many players would take up such an offer (if it existed). @MrConway @Crysantos any info? Suggestions?

[_Teob_]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Idea is sound. Issue is, most players don't care.

 

Well I expect most people who chime in all those "players are bad" threads to show up here and offer their support and feedback. You know the saying "put your money where your mouth is", right? 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, _Teob_ said:

 

Well I expect most people who chime in all those "players are bad" threads to show up here and offer their support and feedback. You know the saying "put your money where your mouth is", right? 

My anecdotal experience with "helping" players comes from ancient times when I actually played WoT. Volunteered to teach new players in clan, explaining game mechanics, playing divisions/platoons with them and occasional training room. Whole concept of teaching lasted two weeks tops, with most "interested" decided to "just play tanks for fun" after few days.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

I am currently working on a WoWS pocketguide and most information I get comes from the How it Works series, which are really great, but as you said when you need a tiny bit of information it is a real pain to find. 
This is also why I am working on a pocketguide with sources attached to them lulz.

 

Buddy system would be really nice.

[quickr]

I honestly think no matter how much stuff you throw at new players, how much effort community and WG put in educating, it's all for nothing if a player doesn't want to learn and get better.

When I started playing, I had no "buddy" to hold my hand. I didn't play much divisions, I had to learn about wows wiki and wows numbers and other 3rd party websites on my own. And I did it cos I wanted it.

 

There are more than enough tutorials out there. Flamus videos are highly educational. WG has their own "how it works" series. There is Wiki. There are LWM's reviews on different premium ships with indepth details and stats. Most of us here are more than willing to answer any questions a new player might have. Sure, we might laugh a bit ("why I can't spot ships when I sit in smoke??!?!?!") but in the end that player will have his answer.

 

Point is, access of information is not the issue, it's the players that only want to pew pew for couple of games and that's it. You can't make anyone get better at something if they don't want to.

[_HomTanks_]

1 hour ago, Allied_Winter said:

- Help out in divisions. Although this one begs the question how this can happen with something similar already in place: The recruiting station? An integration could be possible? Viable?

The recruiting station is more like if people you invited keep playing games, both of you all gain access to more resources, ships, etc. without having to play together. It is more of an incentive program than an educative one i guess. There could be another station, mode or similar for newcomers and assigned volunteer tutors. It may work.

[Excavatus]

8 minutes ago, quickr said:

You can't make anyone get better at something if they don't want to.

You are absolutely right about that, 

but there are a great number of players, who does not know the basics of the game, and they lack the information of that they don't know the basics. 

These players even though they are bad, they can be just average only by being spoon fed with information and practical training. 

I guess thats what Teob is talking about. 

[_Teob_]

Yeah, like I said, I don't think there is an issue with people that just want to sail around and make stuff go "boom" now and then. But there is no reason whatsoever why information is this hard to access. 

The how it works series for example. Why don't I get a link to that when I right click on HE shells? Just as an example.

 

Also I don't think it's a good idea to expect people to persevere. You want to make it as easy as possible for them to get information and stay in the game. Every person who quits because they didn't understand why they couldn't see anything after they used their smoke is a loss for all of us who do enjoy the game and want to see it thrive.

[quickr]

9 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

But there is no reason whatsoever why information is this hard to access. 

I'm sorry, that's just something I can't agree. Information is out there and it's easy to access. It just takes a bit of effort, something average player is not willing to take.

 

 

 

 

[Allied_Winter]

2 minutes ago, quickr said:

it's easy to access. It just takes a bit of effort

Does not compute.

 

Either it's easy to access then it takes NO (or very little) effort to access OR it takes a bit of effort in which case I'd argue it's not easy to access.

 

The problem is, "easy" or "little bit" is very subjective. And here I agree with Teob, that for those who WANT to but struggle to find the information, it should made as easily available as possible. E.g. a pop up next to the Hosho, Langley or Hermes when a player first buys them that links to the most recent educational video or wiki page.

[quickr]

Whats this, mods stick together, mods strong?!

 

4 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Does not compute.

Of course I have to draw it for you as you take everything so literally. Yes, it's easy to access but it takes a bit more effort than joining a battle, firing 3 salvos, dying to torps and repeating until you have your fill of pew pew for the day.

Which part do you want me to draw for you?

 

Banana is easy to eat but it take a bit of effort. You get it?

 

[Allied_Winter]

1 minute ago, quickr said:

Yes, it's easy to access but it takes a bit more effort than joining a battle

And all I pointed out was: Hey, if you think it's easy? Good for you! More power to you. I do too! But that doesn't mean that it can't be made even easier....

 

 

Anyways, have a nice day mate.

[Saltface]

an up-vote from me!

 

I ll propose a few "small" steps and say what I think about the issue, brain droppings as the great late George Carlin would say.

 

1. Buddy System : Nope for tons of reasons. However we have an alternative which is the moderated forum. It could work as a buddy system. You have many "buddies" here. Oh Lord what am I saying? Anyway, a first point of reference for questions should be in place. Lets say a hot line for players to ask and get serious answers not speculations and "RNG is rigged and what have you"

 

2. Content: If only the Wiki could be up to date and maintained and expanded we have a good "big book" source as a starting point

 

3. Battle Review: One of the best tools to learn is to have feedback on your performance

 

4. Content by players (not CC) - with commentary of why you did what you did. Good and bad. Give us some highlights of your games with your commentary. On small little things. Like "this is how I used RPF and Hydro to hunt an enemy DD and look how it worked" - or "speed dodging with smalland" or how to torp with short ranged torpedoes or how to kill a Kamikaze etc - even an honest discussion on the review could be healthy but I doubt it will happen.

 

5. Wishful thinking : All Forum lines magically transform to nice informative text

 

6. Intro Videos on HOW to think to solve WoWs problems. Dont get me crazy here. I am not talking "right think" I am talking "strategy" and "tactics" - on the how to think issue. Most novice players dont know how to think in the game. Like...a DD in a heavy Radar Game, how do you go about it? or what is the thought process when you see the team lineups....I guess it might be too much to ask people to learn the IFHE mechanic and damage mechanics so they can figure out if IFHE is a good skill for them. I am being a bit sarcastic. But it would be a good think to create a player base that can be critical of the content the CCs develop. And not just gulp all nonsense because so and so said so. 

 

Some or even most of the above are in place. What is missing is an organized way of accessing it. And someone to do it.

 

 

 

 

[_Teob_]

1 hour ago, quickr said:

I'm sorry, that's just something I can't agree. Information is out there and it's easy to access. It just takes a bit of effort, something average player is not willing to take.

 

Look, let's say you're right and by your own definition, the average player isn't willing to make the effort. 

My question is, why not remove the effort? Or at least part of it.

Why does it need to be more difficult than it needs to?

And you could argue that all the games I mentioned above also have tons of resources outside of the game but they still chose to have that information in the game too. There must be a reason for that and I think it's because yes, people don't like making an effort. 

 

All I am saying is that the current system where the information might be available as you say, clearly isn't working for everyone. Tell me this, do you think it's more reasonable to expect the playerbase to magically change their behavior or do you think it would be better to try to make other changes to help them?

[Saltface]

@quickr @_Teob_

 

Case1: No Content (because most of the player base is unwilling to learn) - Result - No One learns not even those that want to learn.

Case2: Content (because some might want to learn) - Result - Some Learn

 

Case Comparison: Case 2 has a net benefit

 

Case Closed

[ThePurpleSmurf]

All intentions to improve the game, gaming experience and help newbies are nice and good, but fact is WG does not care a bit. Leave alone the game for a second. Just look at this forum for instance. There are sticky threads, sticky guides that explain 'new game mechanics' from back version 0.5.5 and how to play CV back from 2015 and stuff like this. Every sub-forum got these way outdated sticky information that are so obsolete that a lot of this stuff is not even part of the game anymore, yet they are sticky which suggest they are very important information. Look at the newcomer/newbie section. This is the forum where newbies go first when they seek for help. There are questions, weeks and months old, unanswered. Browsing briefly through the threads/questions reveal that 95% of them are ignored by WB staff (which include forum Mods), no reply/answer there whatsoever from WG staff. There are newbies with login problems or having problems to connect their steam account to the WG account, ignored, no reply. What kind of impression does this give a new player if his help request is ignored? If he wanna read about the game and mechanics, tips and tricks and reads sticky threads from 2015/16 about game mechanics that were removed from the game?

Perhaps WG should start to update the forums, show some willingness to help new players with questions, pin useful and important threads instead outdated trash. This is something everyone can contribute to. Ingame help is in devs hands only and we all know what that means. Just look at tiny and easy to fix things like MM screen and ship roles. There are a million little things that could be fixed so easily, because it's just some damn text, but WG does not care. It does not affect the money so it's classified as whatever, maybe next year.

[_Teob_]

3 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

All intentions to improve the game, gaming experience and help newbies are nice and good, but fact is WG does not care a bit. Leave alone the game for a second. Just look at this forum for instance. There are sticky threads, sticky guides that explain 'new game mechanics' from back version 0.5.5 and how to play CV back from 2015 and stuff like this. Every sub-forum got these way outdated sticky information that are so obsolete that a lot of this stuff is not even part of the game anymore, yet they are sticky which suggest they are very important information. Look at the newcomer/newbie section. This is the forum where newbies go first when they seek for help. There are questions, weeks and months old, unanswered. Browsing briefly through the threads/questions reveal that 95% of them are ignored by WB staff (which include forum Mods), no reply/answer there whatsoever from WG staff. There are newbies with login problems or having problems to connect their steam account to the WG account, ignored, no reply. What kind of impression does this give a new player if his help request is ignored? If he wanna read about the game and mechanics, tips and tricks and reads sticky threads from 2015/16 about game mechanics that were removed from the game?

Perhaps WG should start to update the forums, show some willingness to help new players with questions, pin useful and important threads instead outdated trash. This is something everyone can contribute to. Ingame help is in devs hands only and we all know what that means. Just look at tiny and easy to fix things like MM screen and ship roles. There are a million little things that could be fixed so easily, because it's just some damn text, but WG does not care. It does not affect the money so it's classified as whatever, maybe next year.

 

I really don't want to get into this because it's not directly related to the thread, but you make a good point so I will briefly address it.

While you are absolutely right that it's a failing that the pinned information is not up to date (it was just an oversight), the fact that questions go unanswered is easily explained by the fact that nobody has enough time to go through all the posts on the forum. I have replied there now and then but honestly the other parts of the forum and the reports take up a lot of my available time.

 

Also on the same note, and this goes for everyone, if you do see something on the forum that is outdated or wrong or anything just throw a report at us. It really really helps and we do go though all the reports. For example here, if I wasn't directly involved in this thread, I could have very well missed the perfectly valid point about the outdated information but there's no way I could have missed a report about it.

[ClappingLollies]

Let me just give you an example why what Teob says has been needed a long time. A few days ago i decided to do a few games. One of them were super close and after my 6th kill i realize that my top tier BB teammate is sitting in the A cap with full HP. Im telling him and two other T10 cruisers to go cap B and ill cap C. That was the only chance we had to win. Stop the point gain for the enemy team. But our BB mate suddenly writes in chat: "Stay in the cap". I tell him no, we need the caps. He then says: "Stay in cap for faster capture points". I then ask WTF. The two tier 10 Cruisers then goes on to listen to the guy despite my efforts to explain that its not how it works. So the game ended with me trying to cap C and B but knowing that i dont have the time. If only information about gamemechanics were easily avalible. 

[MZL_Makrele]

Vor 8 Stunden, ThePurpleSmurf sagte:

Perhaps WG should start to update the forums, show some willingness to help new players with questions, pin useful and important threads instead outdated trash.

...

There are a million little things that could be fixed so easily, because it's just some damn text, but WG does not care. It does not affect the money so it's classified as whatever, maybe next year.

A few Pfennigs on @ThePurpleSmurf:

Against the good hints from within this forum I did not stick with my TVI naval base until my learning curve is long enough for higher tiers, I managed to collect EXP and Credits to reach the TVIII Amalfi (mainly in order to see whats in the special warefare chapters with the famous names). Now, at TierVIII, Modules would come handy I thought, but which one or ones. So I went into the German Wiki hoping to find this info, but nope. So I went into this forum into the apropriate thread in order to find some hints, but nope. Instead of finding the most important info (Modules, Consumables, Captain Skills) on a new ship in the first post of that thread having the name of the ship, people were banting over several pages if this is better or that is even better or how stupid it is to suggest this and so on.

 

Finally I found the information I needed in the English Wiki. And it would be a matter of minutes to copy and paste this info as a first step to have this info in the German Wiki too.

 

Cheers

Norbert

 

By the way, that was the day I offered my help for making the German Wiki better.

[_Teob_]

We all have stories like that. 

Again, I challenge anyone to find where the dmg is explained for HE shells. I know it's 1/3 on a pen but that is not explained virtually anywhere. I only found it in one spot on the wiki. And I think it might have been explained in one of the how it works videos but I couldn't find it in a reasonable amount of time.

This could easily be fixed with simply having a tooltip with that in-game.