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GargencUA

Premium ships and Special Ships !!

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Hi everybody 

 

I have a few questions :fish_book:

 

1- What are the privileges of special and premium ships ? only credit and xp ? if not what is the strength rate

 

2- How can we learn the credit and xp income in detail between the two ? 

    (for example : premium ships = %20 extra credi and xp --- special ships = %5 extra credi and xp... )

 

all these need details :cap_money:

 

(I have been following for a long time, it is interesting that WG does not make a special article about this subject..  Or did I not see ? )

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I had no idea there was a distinction in gold ships. I thought people just called them differently to sound smart or something. Then this month I learned the truth due to the debacle with Moskva.

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The premium has baked in 1.5x the credit income of it's techtree counterparts. Only Missouri has 2x. The amount of Exp is on the camo.

Both special and premium ships share the ability to move captains with no cost. The special ones have better after battle service cost than the premiums - but this is a feature in their camo. 

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Basically, premiums earn more credits directly while freemiums have lower repair costs.

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1 hour ago, GargencUA said:

What are the privileges of special and premium ships ? only credit and xp ? if not what is the strength rate

 

How can we learn the credit and xp income in detail between the two ? 

 

Besides what @MacArthur92 said, premiums and semi-premiums get reduced service costs; this makes a significant difference to profitability, especially at higher tiers.

 

If you want to get a sense of this, the economy page of the wiki is worth a look (the relevant table is about 3/4 of the way down): https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy

 

Besides what you get from the cammo, xp bonuses are - I believe - sekrit, although the Sims is notorious for having a ludicrous base xp boost, assuming it hasn't been quietly fixed and I missed it.

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2 hours ago, GargencUA said:

Hi everybody 

 

I have a few questions :fish_book:

 

1- What are the privileges of special and premium ships ? only credit and xp ? if not what is the strength rate

 

2- How can we learn the credit and xp income in detail between the two ? 

    (for example : premium ships = %20 extra credi and xp --- special ships = %5 extra credi and xp... )

 

all these need details :cap_money:

 

(I have been following for a long time, it is interesting that WG does not make a special article about this subject..  Or did I not see ? )

Premium ships like Warspite, Atago, Alaska or Tirpitz, with gold icon with gold laurel, have improved credit coefficient as well come with permanent camouflage, that gives some economical benefits, usually additional exp. They also can equip any captain from the same nation without need for retraining

 

Special ships like Yoshino, Stalingrad, Stalingrad, Hayate, with silver icon and gold laurel, do NOT have improved credit coefficient. They do come with powerful permanent camouflage (the same as on other T10 ships), which effectively improves their money printing by virtue of being very cheap to run. And like premium ships, they can use captains from same nation without retraining.

 

And WG in general isn't very keen on sharing technical details, probably have something to do with their approach of "only numbers customer needs to know is their credit card credential"

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thanks for the answers :fish_cute_2: 

as I understand it,

the special ships are only at tier 10, premium ships t9 and lower parts

If t9 premium ships have more income than t10 special ships

 

apparently premium ships have 50% (missouri %100) credit income (excluding camouflage)
special ships do not have credit income but camouflage also has 20% income

but,

T9 premium ships have 20% cost reduction, t10 special ships have 50% cost reduction

There seems to be 30% extra income even though it seems to be equality

 

I think we can come to this conclusion :Smile_trollface: 

 

(Every ship has a hidden credit modifier. and we need to learn that===> WG theory vol.1)

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Another difference is , that premium ships cannot be nerfed, since those are sold for real money too, usually. Premiums can be adjusted negatively only when its a global change, which affects all ships, silver and gold together.

 

Special ships can be nerfed individually, just like the silver ones.

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8 minutes ago, K82J said:

Special ships can be nerfed individually, just like the silver ones.

Which is yet to happen. So far, most offending case, Smolensk, was simply removed from sale while Stalingrad reigns as russian bias supreme.

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The 5 benefits of Premium Ships.

1) Increased credit earning coefficient. (although the exact amount is upto debate)

2) The ability to use any Captain of the ship's nation without requiring retraining or suffering any penalty. Including if the Captain is partially through retraining.

3) Reduced post battle Service Cost after Tier 5. (See https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy#Service_Cost)

4) Come with Permanent Camo as default (which is mostly but not always the same as the permanent camo you could buy for tech tree ships at that tier).

5) Always elite, for anyone who cares about converting Xp into free XP.


Special ships *tend* to have all except the the increased earning coefficient, although technically some also don't come with permanent camo (like submarines or earlier versions of the ARP ships which initially couldn't mount any camo but have finally transitioned to proper premium ships.)

There has never been a tier 10 (or tier 1!) premium ship to my knowledge.
 

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41 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Which is yet to happen. So far, most offending case, Smolensk, was simply removed from sale

 

So i guess armor nerf on Smolensk didnt happen?:cap_hmm:

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6 hours ago, K82J said:

Another difference is , that premium ships cannot be nerfed, since those are sold for real money too, usually. Premiums can be adjusted negatively only when its a global change, which affects all ships, silver and gold together.

 

Special ships can be nerfed individually, just like the silver ones.

Ships like Georgia, Friesland, Alaska and some others are considered special ships but they are also sold directly in the premium shop.

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6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

So i guess armor nerf on Smolensk didnt happen?:cap_hmm:

Ye, but it wasn't a direct nerf, but a global nerf (or buff depending on some ships) due to the IFHE reeework.

So yeah poorlensk never got spanked, but shoved outside to shipfu heaven instead.

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6 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

So i guess armor nerf on Smolensk didnt happen?:cap_hmm:

They have said  that 'special' ships can be rebalanced.

However, with the Smolensk they called it a global nerf. They classed Smolensk along with Colbert as 'super light cruisers and changed their armour profile accordingly.

 

Premiums have never been exempt from global nerfs.

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Smolensk had her plate thinned, however that is only part of the issue with that ship

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1 hour ago, CptBarney said:

Ye, but it wasn't a direct nerf, but a global nerf (or buff depending on some ships) due to the IFHE reeework.

So yeah poorlensk never got spanked, but shoved outside to shipfu heaven instead.

 

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

They have said  that 'special' ships can be rebalanced.

However, with the Smolensk they called it a global nerf. They classed Smolensk along with Colbert as 'super light cruisers and changed their armour profile accordingly.

 

Premiums have never been exempt from global nerfs.

 

624165572_WG_SPB_WoWs_Infographic_table_

 

So a nerf only hitting 2 freemiums is a "global" nerf? Not to mention, all other Cruisers got actually buffed.

No, that was not a global nerf - that was a nerf to Colbert and Smolensk directly. No silver ship was nerfed the same way they were. Infact, no other ship was nerfed at all.

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2 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Ships like Georgia, Friesland, Alaska and some others are considered special ships but they are also sold directly in the premium shop.

 

I don think they are.

Premium ships are Yellow symbol with a yellow rim - special ships are white symbol with yellow rim.

 

image.png.e63437a17365ce769e0ad899619f3e0e.png

Special ships - all TX

 

image.png.fdadf11ca10941c99737fb2bde348430.png

Premium ships - all others

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10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I don think they are.

Premium ships are Yellow symbol with a yellow rim - special ships are white symbol with yellow rim.

 

Special ships - all TX

 

Premium ships - all others

I also think the above is correct. 

 

I believe there underlying purpose here is, the T10 "special" ships were only ever exchanged for resources, not sold for money. Therefore they're not exempt from nerfs if they're needed. 

 

Note that that this is very important for WG, because T10 is the flagship competitive environment for this game, hence it needs to be free for balancing. So it's a compromise which retains T10 as a viable competitive environment, while giving us attractive T10 ships to grind for, which come with all the premium ship benefits relevant for the average player.

 

While many T9's like Alaska, Musashi, Jean Bart etc. are/were exchanged for resources, they were also sold for money. Hence they're "premiums" and will be removed from sales rather than tuned for balance.

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23 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

624165572_WG_SPB_WoWs_Infographic_table_

 

So a nerf only hitting 2 freemiums is a "global" nerf? Not to mention, all other Cruisers got actually buffed.

No, that was not a global nerf - that was a nerf to Colbert and Smolensk directly. No silver ship was nerfed the same way they were. Infact, no other ship was nerfed at all.

Brits didn't and yes it its a global nerf, since the changes werent directly solely at smolensk. I didn't see a PT thread saying Smolensk deck armour changed from 30mm to 16mm.

So the point still stands, weegee doesn't directly nerf premiums or single them out on their own (without changes to other ships at the sametime) to nerf them, otherwise there would of been other changes to smolensk than the IFHE changes which also nerfed some cruisers in terms of fire chance and nerfed some BB's who will get penned more frequently reducing their overall survivability.

 

Also you can buy georgia and the others directly from the premium shop.

prems.thumb.png.6c7f71caaad4740f5a8fd3ff6a4dbe41.png

 

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5 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

since the changes werent directly solely at smolensk.

 

The nerf was directly targeted towards special ships Smolensk and Colbert. Not one other ship was nerfed the same way, thus its not a global nerf.

You think, WG could get away by nerfing 2 Premium ships that way? Lets say, GC and Georgia both get their Dispersion nerfed. Would you say "ok, its a global nerf, they can do it"? Hell no, there would be a HUGE outcry (rightfully so) since its not a global nerf.

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40 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

624165572_WG_SPB_WoWs_Infographic_table_

 

So a nerf only hitting 2 freemiums is a "global" nerf? Not to mention, all other Cruisers got actually buffed.

No, that was not a global nerf - that was a nerf to Colbert and Smolensk directly. No silver ship was nerfed the same way they were. Infact, no other ship was nerfed at all.

How many cruisers with guns of less than 150mm were affected by this?

Wargaming effectively invented a new class and standard plating for those classes. So yes, it was a global nerf, all super light cruisers were affected.

 

I would hate prefered they just rebalanced Smolensk as Colbert is now definitely the weaker cousin.

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7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

The nerf was directly targeted towards special ships Smolensk and Colbert. Not one other ship was nerfed the same way, thus its not a global nerf.

You think, WG could get away by nerfing 2 Premium ships that way? Lets say, GC and Georgia both get their Dispersion nerfed. Would you say "ok, its a global nerf, they can do it"? Hell no, there would be a HUGE outcry (rightfully so) since its not a global nerf.

Ok fair enough. Although if weegee did nerf premiums to bring them into line with other ships i wouldn't have a problem with that.

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6 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

How many cruisers with guns of less than 150mm were affected by this?

Wargaming effectively invented a new class and standard plating for those classes. So yes, it was a global nerf, all super light cruisers were affected.

 

I would hate prefered they just rebalanced Smolensk as Colbert is now definitely the weaker cousin.

 

 

image.thumb.png.0c34a47fa5a37a68b43f9f118f5c9f21.png

 

So why didnt they buff Atlanta? Certainly falls into the same category. And on T4 you have Svietlana with 130mm guns running around with 20/25mm central plating (which actually is interesting, since it should be 16mm? according to the list)

 

As i wrote to @CptBarney , you are giving WG freedom to nerf any ships they want like that. Just make something up which conveniently targets the ship you want to nerf.

 

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

 

image.thumb.png.0c34a47fa5a37a68b43f9f118f5c9f21.png

 

So why didnt they buff Atlanta? Certainly falls into the same category. And on T4 you have Svietlana with 130mm guns running around with 20/25mm central plating (which actually is interesting, since it should be 16mm? according to the list)

 

As i wrote to @CptBarney , you are giving WG freedom to nerf any ships they want like that. Just make something up which conveniently targets the ship you want to nerf.

 

Platings are different depending on tier as they always have been. I am also surprised Atlanta and flint were not mentioned on the table but as it specifically mentions 139-189mm armed cruisers, it is clear they were excluded. It could be because they already had ‘super light’ cruiser armour.

 

As to your second point. Aren’t you saying that Wargaming just did a targeted nerf to special ships? Why would that give Wargaming any less freedom?

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35 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Platings are different depending on tier as they always have been. I am also surprised Atlanta and flint were not mentioned on the table but as it specifically mentions 139-189mm armed cruisers, it is clear they were excluded. It could be because they already had ‘super light’ cruiser armour. 

 

I think there is enough evidence, that this is completely made up (super light Cruisers) even if WG would see it the same way.

Is Minotaur in the same group? But it has 152mm guns, yet its armor indicates it would be. However, Fiji is in the same branch with the same guns, but actually has 19mm central armor :Smile_amazed: But British CLs were exlcuded from all changes.

There is no clear line indicating, what a Super-CL would be. Smolensk/Colbert and Mino/Neptune yes, all others arent, but its not tied to maingun caliber. Atlanta/Flint should be aswell, but they arent, same with Svietlana and Krasny Krim, which actually have thicker plating than all of the others with similar guns (except the british).

Ontop of that, they never used a word like Super light Cruiser.

 

They stated they reserve the right to nerf special ships - and so they did. Why call it a global nerf? A "global nerf", that only hit 2 special ships ... If you call that a global nerf, then they basicly could nerf any premium ship, as long as they make some stuff up which fits that ship + any other.

 

44 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

As to your second point. Aren’t you saying that Wargaming just did a targeted nerf to special ships? Why would that give Wargaming any less freedom? 

If WG says, they reserve the right to nerf special ships - im fine with it. If WG says, they wont nerf premium ships but then nerf them anyway, its not fine. If they start making up things to nerf premium ships to make it look like a global nerf , it would also not be ok.

The best thing would be, to not release premiums which clearly arent balanced to not have that mess, but thats not what they want at all. They want "OP" premiums, to shovel them into XMas boxes for extra :cap_money:

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