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MrSpaniard

Indepth questions about WG automated system, their workings and etc.

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Dear fellow captains,

 

I've been playing WoWS casually for about 1,5 years now, and started whaling and playing religiously for about 9 months now.

Watch the forums a lot but haven't posted anything so far as I did not feel qualified to give my 2 cents on topics thus far and I usually enjoy playing the game and use the forums more for ship and technical information :)

It's my most favorite game by a long stretch, therefore I'm taking the time to type this topic and look for answers.

 

I have experienced something objectively trivial yesterday, that bothers me a lot personally (I overthink things too much, it's a problem)

I received a chatban, this has not happened to me before and is the first time I receive a suspension of any sort. (I've been made pink status once because my internet router decided to fail on me, felt bad, but teammates could not know what was going on on my end, so no hard feelings there).

 

Played for the whole evening, logged back in the next day and saw a message pop up.

The suspension message read: "You have been suspended from sending chat messaged until 20.06.2020 09:24. Reason: Insults, personal attacks, abuse or harassment or typing in such a way to bypass the censor filter. (R)."

The message popped up on 17-06-2020 when I logged in around say 17:00. I last played the night before 16-06-2020 around 12:00-ish.

So this is a chatban for 3 days.

I have suspision on where this is coming from, but I am not sure, and there is quite some things I want to say about that.

 

A few question about this so far:

1) What does (R) mean? I read on another forum post that (R) means it is a ban that has been assigned by a human. But I have also seen that people get automated chatbans with the (R) identifier, so I'm looking for concise information on what this means.
2) If (R) is an identifier for a type of suspension or ban, is there a list of these identifiers and what they mean? Might be interesting to derive more information from the suspension message this way.
3) Judging by the time of the suspension activation (09:24) I believe this is a manual ban (as in administered by a WG employee). Am I correct in assuming this, or do the automated systems something have a delay for giving a suspension?

 

I think I know where this ban is coming from.

There was a match the night before (not the last match I played that night) where a teammate was extremely toxic in chat and constantly berating me for everything I died, calling me names, harassing me in particular and sometimes my division mates for not following his (In our opinion extremely poor) tactical advice. Me and my division mates did not respond to his harassment in hopes of him giving up spamming chat with his abuse.

Unfortunately he did not stop and continued throughout the whole match.

Other teammates (not from my division) started requesting him to stop his harassment and stop spamming chat.
Near the end of the match I responded to him, explaining I could not get near an Halland close enough to get a shot of when flying my Saipan, as the Halland already shredded 1,5 of my squads without me being able to get a single shot of.

It did not matter, he kept harassing me and the rest of the team until the end. (Positive side here is we won the match :) so that's nice).

 

So naturally I want to appeal this decision and preferably get some form of confirmation what the exact reason is (on record) that warranted my suspension.

So on the forums I see a lot of people telling others to submit a ticket to WG if you want to appeal a suspension you can do so from the website.

I navigated to the website, used the choice menu to get to the correct part of the website to report an appeal and submitted a ticket with my request and questions.

Within 1 hour I get an automated response, along with the closure of my ticket, that goes like this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Exact copy of Automated Player Support response has been removed due to rule:
 

Do not create topics/posts to share private conversations

  • Exchanges with our Customer Support Services and through private messages should remain private

 

*  The information from the automated message said the following things in general:

- You have been suspended because of the rules

- The sanction is applied by our semi-automated system

- We will review your report in the next few days, but the ticket will be closed and there will be no response.

- If this answer did not address your question, create a new ticket with the correct department.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This was a very disappointing response to my appeal ticket and feels like an extra kick to the groin after being punished for being harassed.

 

Okay, so this means that nobody will take a look at my request, until maybe after a few days (after the ban has been lifted), but I should not expect any form of answer since this is an automated message.

Along with the message that if this does not answer my question, I should raise the question to the correct department.

Joke here is, this was the correct department according to the menu's on the website... so... what?

 

Then I dig a little deeper and find this:

https://eu.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/10245/#section_0


On this page, it basically says that using the correct department according to WG (Player Support) is also the department that according to WG will not handle any appeals to suspensions...

 

So the questions I have in regards to the rest of this story are:

3) Is it normal to get suspended, if you are the person that was targeted by harassment? 

4) Am I correct in assuming the person harassing me has gone so far as to manually report me to WG, and thus the ban was permitted?

5) Did WG also ban the person reporting me? As he was the main instigator during the entire match and acted very toxic.

6) Why do people on the forum tell others to just appeal, if the website of WG says they will not handle appeals?

7) Is the situation I depict in question 6 not a perfect way for disturbed people to go out of their way to annoy others and get them suspended without good reason?

8) If someone sends in a manual report for another player, and attaches proof that shows their toxic conduct during that same match, does WG also issue punishment on that player, or do they only handle the request in favor of the requester?

9) Is there any real working way to appeal? And if so, does someone care to elaborate on how to correctly and effectively use this method.

 

Extra questions:

10) I'm afraid because I cannot use the chat system, and I cannot properly respond to people in chat, that I will get reported by disturbed players again.

Think of situation like when people use chat to try and communicate near the end of the match and get angry because you do not respond. They don't know that I have a chat suspension and might get angry with me and report me.

I have had that happen before without a ban, just because I did not see a chat reply because the battling was too intense at a certain moment, and someone gave me -2 karma because I did not respond.

Is this a genuine fear, or am I overthinking too much? How is other players experience with this? How much did a chat ban impact you, or cause you to get extra bans.

11) I've heard that when you get reported you get put on a watchlist. Is this true? And if so, what does this mean exactly.

12) Does this ban make my account more vulnerable to additional bans and possible get me suspended from the entire game more easily?

 

 

The reason for this long post is because I overthink things a lot, I admit that. 

I take issue with injustice very strongly (as is evident above xD, I'm sorry).

This system seems very easily usable for malicious intent by disturbed players to me, and offers no way I can see right now to defend oneself against it.

 

I hope I did not offend anyone with this post, that is absolutely not my intend, and also the reason I do not post the username of the harasser here.

I'm looking for answer to this because this made me feel really bad about playing this game and the appeal process so far has been very disappointing to me personally.

 

I haven't been able to play the game with enjoyment since, to be honest :(

  • Cool 2

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2 minutes ago, MrSpaniard said:

A few question about this so far:

1) What does (R) mean? I read on another forum post that (R) means it is a ban that has been assigned by a human. But I have also seen that people get automated chatbans with the (R) identifier, so I'm looking for concise information on what this means.
2) If (R) is an identifier for a type of suspension or ban, is there a list of these identifiers and what they mean? Might be interesting to derive more information from the suspension message this way.

  1. No idea. Everything over one day is a manual ban
  2. There are no identifiers

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[R-M]
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Since Thanatoy so rudely locked th other thread I will just repost what I said there because I'm honestly fuckin tired of these chat bans :

 

I got chatbanned twice during the previous ranked and the one before even tho I delibaretly avoid any kind of insult. This season I didn't get banned yet, suprisingly. But I know why: because people abuse the system knowing full well how to get you banned.

 

I have 3 games with the same ... "person" that was trying to convince my team and the opposing team across several unfortunate matches where I encountered him again to get me banned. What did I do? I pointed out how he threw away our win ( he smoked up as a dd in front of a bb while as a cruiser was behind an island with low hp. I had the chance to take out the enemy but he refused to spot even tho I was begging him. Instead he sat there, failed his torps and died, to no ones surprise. Well apparently he did feel like the idiot he was afterwards so he started harrassing me heavily, both ingame and in chat. He even told the enemy I was cheating and they ought to all report me ( or at last check the chat abuse box) because I knew how ti hit people in smoke after losing vision....

 

This crap is getting out of hand. Calling out stupid mistakes that cost me my effort and time can't, and shouldn't be enough reason to take a very much needed function of the game away, especially during ranked.

 

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Sorry everybody, I accidentally clicked submit to soon with my keyboard when the question topic was not complete.

I just edited it with the additional information and questions.

Thanks for the responses so far :) even the funny ones! :) haha

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22 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

"Error 404" :Smile-_tongue:

I'm not going to lie, I really like your answer xD hahahaha

+1

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1 minute ago, PeteEarthling said:

I suppose posting support logs here is not the brightest idea, because afaik it violates the forum rules.

That seems a little harsh I would say, this is an automated response and no names or anything where included except my own.

Are you sure this could cause trouble?

In that case I will delete it, but it helps explain the rest of my question.

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[THESO]
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4 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

I suppose posting support logs here is not the brightest idea, because afaik it violates the forum rules.

What rule specifically are you referring to?

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Just now, MrSpaniard said:

That seems a little harsh I would say, this is an automated response and no names or anything where included except my own.

Are you sure this could cause trouble?

In that case I will delete it, but it helps explain the rest of my question.

I have seen this multiple times, so I would advise to remove the support correspondence. Those who have had similar issues probably know the default text anyway.

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2 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

What rule specifically are you referring to?

Forum rules: "Do not create topics/posts to share private conversations. Exchanges with our Customer Support Services and through private messages should remain private."

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4 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

I have seen this multiple times, so I would advise to remove the support correspondence. Those who have had similar issues probably know the default text anyway.

Thanks for the headsup, I did not view this as a rulebreak, but better safe than sorry.

It would be extremely salty if this information in my topic would get me suspended from the forum as well xD

 

I redacted it and replaced with some general points from the response (not direct copies) because the general points from the response are important.

I hope this will fly according to the rules.

I do not intend to break them.

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36 minutes ago, MrSpaniard said:

So the questions I have in regards to the rest of this story are:

3) Is it normal to get suspended, if you are the person that was targeted by harassment? 

4) Am I correct in assuming the person harassing me has gone so far as to manually report me to WG, and thus the ban was permitted?

5) Did WG also ban the person reporting me? As he was the main instigator during the entire match and acted very toxic.

6) Why do people on the forum tell others to just appeal, if the website of WG says they will not handle appeals?

7) Is the situation I depict in question 6 not a perfect way for disturbed people to go out of their way to annoy others and get them suspended without good reason?

8) If someone sends in a manual report for another player, and attaches proof that shows their toxic conduct during that same match, does WG also issue punishment on that player, or do they only handle the request in favor of the requester?

9) Is there any real working way to appeal? And if so, does someone care to elaborate on how to correctly and effectively use this method.

  1.  
  2.  
  3. Only when you behave wrongly
  4. Nobody knows
  5. WG will not tell you
  6. There are ways around that, like contacting WG staff directly, but that might overwork them when everyone does it
  7. no
  8. WG will not tell us
  9. see 6, but it is unlikely that it will work. Of dozens cases brought to public on the forum, only one got a ban by mistake, since he used a homonym and the WG employee understood the negative meaning

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[CN_]
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Usually a 3 day chat ban is at least manually approved.

Chatbans always have a delay, both automated ones and manual ones. Manual ones might have a longer delay than automated ones, you usually get an automated chat ban within 24 hours after the rule violation (there are exceptions and it might take 25-26 hours but I think you get the basic idea :) ).

 

Vor 40 Minuten, MrSpaniard sagte:

3) Is it normal to get suspended, if you are the person that was targeted by harassment? 

4) Am I correct in assuming the person harassing me has gone so far as to manually report me to WG, and thus the ban was permitted?

5) Did WG also ban the person reporting me? As he was the main instigator during the entire match and acted very toxic.

6) Why do people on the forum tell others to just appeal, if the website of WG says they will not handle appeals?

7) Is the situation I depict in question 6 not a perfect way for disturbed people to go out of their way to annoy others and get them suspended without good reason?

8) If someone sends in a manual report for another player, and attaches proof that shows their toxic conduct during that same match, does WG also issue punishment on that player, or do they only handle the request in favor of the requester?

9) Is there any real working way to appeal? And if so, does someone care to elaborate on how to correctly and effectively use this method.

3) Being insulted is no reason to violate the rules yourself. It's the same as in the forum: Just report people who insult you, if you do the same, you will suffer the same consequences.

4) Not necessarily. Might have been someone else in that game or the system detected something and flagged it for manual approval. Just because longer chatbans are not automated does not mean that there is no automated detection.

5) WG does not share information about sanctions of other players.

6) Because it's the only way except for sending a PM to someone from WG staff in the forum.

 

8) I'm not sure but I think if you do something like that you can suffer consequences as well. A rule violation is still a rule violations.

 

9) If you really think a chatban was unjustified, send a PM to someone from WG, for example @Tanatoy and ask what you did. If you still think you are innocent, you could maybe discuss it with them.

 

 

Thread closed because noone except WG can tell you more than I did in this post and I don't think this will lead to a constructive discussion.

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