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Tafano

make Karma useful, suggestions please

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[CAG]
Beta Tester
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3 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Funfacts:

- Most players have 0 karma.

- Almost all players who have a below 50% WR have zero karma.

- Almost all players who are above 60% WR have about 1 karma per 10-20 games played (depending on toxicity of specific player).

Whenever I see screenshots from Matchmakingmonitor on various discords this gets confirmed.

:Smile_teethhappy: Actually matches my karma count if you count randoms only.

 

I found that my karma increased significantly after playing a few ranked seasons.

 

Even playing CV gets your karma, usually by providing fighter support over your allied ships, at least if they are aware that you did it.

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It is certainly the case the type of ship you play has an influence on how likely you are to be complimented or reported for playing well. 

 

Although the favourite example is CVs it's also true for DDs you can have a great game carry your team kicking and screaming to Victory and still get reported by the enemy, conversely I find it a lot easier to get compliments when playing BB and cruisers are not too bad. 

 

Still there are enough very good CV and DD players out there with plenty of karma so it's certainly not true to say oh I always get reported because I played That ship class. Still it would cause a lot of complaints from people of they felt karma was worth something and they were missing out for that reason. 

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[THESO]
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On 6/17/2020 at 5:54 PM, Tafano said:

Any suggestion? Right now is an useless joke: being reported for play slow ship in ranked, or reported by enemy that i kill.

This can be potentially an interesting parameter, why introduce it and leave it in this state? Any suggestion?

First of all Wargaming should separate reports and compliments.

 

It's unintuitive to equalize the motives behind a report with the motives for a compliment. The mere fact that many players don't use compliments at all while regularly reporting, suggests compliments are harder to earn and thus have a higher value than a report.

Second, I think it makes a lot of difference, what you get reported/complimented for. Not decomposing this catch-all variable karma is not helping anybody. If I get reported for unsporting behavior I should address that criticism in a much different way from being reported for afking. People should be able to see how they are seen. They should see how many compliments they get and what sort of misbehavior is criticized.

That itself does not change the meaning of karma in that it has no consequences. It allows the players to still ignore it or address possible issues.

 

Anything else, rewarding good karma with ingame benefits is imo problematic as I already see lots of bad players manipulating their karma through syncing into battles with friends and clan mates. These manipulations would render karma meaningless, if it had any real value. Even the most useless or toxic players would suddenly have +1000 karma.

 

And as a consequence, the incentive to punish others out of spite by reporting them, thus denying them the ingame rewards, would be another problem.

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The karma system should be removed and maybe WG could develop on making the report feature more useful for punishing misbehavior in chat or botting etc.  

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As others have said it's a release valve and should be left exactly as it is.

 

I remember one game where I didn't join a lemming train into obvious certain death (enemy in place and waiting with cover), with some armchair admiral screaming at everyone to join in, they all died in quick succession, and we lost, but I survived the game (think I even got some kills, don't remember now), thing is I lost 2-3 karma points that game because I didn't agree to blindly suicide.

 

People have already mentioned the problems CV players or high scorers have, people will report you for the most childish of reasons.

 

This is the problem, the people proposing sensible rational changes are just that, sensible rational people probably, the problem comes in that there are unreasonable yahoos in this game who delight in causing trouble (not a huge number but you get them, we've all come across them).

 

Any changes to the system would require moderation to really make it fair, AI isn't at the point where it can do that yet, and human moderators would be inconvenient and unworkable (plus both would be an expense and a diversion of resources for WG, I'd rather they concentrate on the game).

 

The only events that need to be investigated are obvious team kills and serious use of bad language in games, and both of those can be dealt with by sending replays to support.

 

Compliments are not a problem obviously, doubt anyone objects to them.

 

The danger is any change would create yet another number for people to obsess over, and it would be abused like the current system is,  it's really not that important.

 

 

 

 

 

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Part of the problem is people are way more likely to report than compliment I don't do myself any favours there with the odd time I lose my rag with a player and say something though.

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[RODS]
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On 6/17/2020 at 5:54 PM, Tafano said:

Any suggestion? Right now is an useless joke: being reported for play slow ship in ranked, or reported by enemy that i kill.

This can be potentially an interesting parameter, why introduce it and leave it in this state? Any suggestion?

1: Drop some flags or credits for say 10, 25, 50, 100 karma score

2: Remove the negative karma "punishment"

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[CU]
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Always the negative side being complained about - why not think about the games where you played well, maybe carried the team or at least helped them win and you get a few +1s? Your karma score matters as much as you want it to, and personally I try and be a team player and not an asshat in chat. Next milestone is 900 karma.

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[TORAZ]
Beta Tester
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If you want Karma you need to carry matches. Everything else practically doesn't matter.

How do I know this? Well...

UzXlpGO.png

 

And I'm not polite in chat (the opposite, really), play only the most toxic class and sure as :etc_swear: don't give a darn about teamplay since, you know, said class actually punishes you for doing that.

:Smile_trollface:

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[P7S]
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Karma is useful as it gives people illusion of control and illusion of being meaningful. Smart move from WG, less annoyances with tickets, etc. The effeact is same, nothing changes, players are content.

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[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

If you want Karma you need to carry matches. Everything else practically doesn't matter.

How do I know this? Well...

UzXlpGO.png

 

And I'm not polite in chat (the opposite, really), play only the most toxic class and sure as :etc_swear: don't give a darn about teamplay since, you know, said class actually punishes you for doing that.

:Smile_trollface:

 

I disagree.

I had 9 Karma.

Now I got 2 ^^

4.thumb.jpg.10aedb7be9127f573d5c6f960a4abcac.jpg

 

 

 

 

As For Suggestions.

Hmm.

I would Gladly give Karma an Actual Effect.

But then they would First need to Fix the abuse.

 

Till then its just venting for People

 

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I have a suggestion:

Remove it from the game. The only people enjoying it are the ones that obey.
 

On 6/20/2020 at 7:56 AM, Vbeest said:

Karma is useful as it gives people illusion of control and illusion of being meaningful. Smart move from WG, less annoyances with tickets, etc. The effeact is same, nothing changes, players are content.

 

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On 6/20/2020 at 11:58 PM, Sunleader said:

 

I disagree.

I had 9 Karma.

Now I got 2 ^^

4.thumb.jpg.10aedb7be9127f573d5c6f960a4abcac.jpg

 

 

 

 

As For Suggestions.

Hmm.

I would Gladly give Karma an Actual Effect.

But then they would First need to Fix the abuse.

 

Till then its just venting for People

 

getting bad karma for exploiting CV game design flaws is to be expected.

 

I don't really know how the karma system could be improved.

 

One thing for sure is the number of compliments/reports. 7 per day is too little.

They should make it 3 per battle.

 

One way to improve it could also to make only positive reports possible, because negative reports don't actually do anything besides a possible placebo effect.

 

 

 

 

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[THESO]
[THESO]
Moderator
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I've suggested this before, 

since a new topic about carma, will suggest that again.. 

 

1) make reports does not drop karma.. 

2) remove "more + karma more reports" system, 

3) let the + karma people get to accumulate, 

4) find a reward at the begining of the year (like 1 year premium or short, or a prem ship, some coal, steel etc..) 

5) at the christmas stream, gib reward to the player who collected most + karma through out the year

6) reset karma every year.. 

 

 

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[IDDQD]
Alpha Tester
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well, i would like to get more reports, since reading about automated chat bans is so much fun

yes, i am an evil person

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