make Karma useful, suggestions please

[Tafano]

Any suggestion? Right now is an useless joke: being reported for play slow ship in ranked, or reported by enemy that i kill.

This can be potentially an interesting parameter, why introduce it and leave it in this state? Any suggestion?

[lovelacebeer]

Honestly I believe karma is designed to act as a vent for people when they are annoyed, it is designed to avoid too many post battle arguements in chat which then might result in lots of reports to WG when then have to moderate. 

 

Whilst I completely understand the frustration of being reported when it seems unreasonable, I think we all know the feeling of being reported for having a great game but someone doesn't appreciate being killed just because they played badly.

 

So it's best not to really worry about karma it's not worth anything so getting reported doesn't really matter.

[Tafano]

39 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

 

So it's best not to really worry about karma it's not worth anything so getting reported doesn't really matter.

 

Yes is a wasted opportunity in this situation: how to improve the system?

 

[DanSilverwing]

Ahem

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/220365-wg-remove-karma-its-just-useless/?do=findComment&comment=5093123

Quote

...after being reported for the nth time by someone with a 45-48% WR, I did think of how a workable Karma scheme might work: Zero-sum.

• Every day you collect 1 Karma point for your first battle (you have to be active for this to work without it being abused)
• You can report somebody by spending 1 Karma point (decreases both your own and their Karma totals)
• You can compliment somebody by spending 1 karma point (increases their Karma but decreases your own)
• You cannot report or compliment somebody if you have no Karma points.
• Report and compliments are only limited by your Karma total, not per diem.
• At the end of the month there is a notional "reward" for however many Karma points you have left, e.g. Type 1 camos you keep or sell. Karma points are then reset to zero.

So the misanthropic players can continue to be spiteful; the philanthropic players can be charitable; and in the middle you can simply pretend the scheme doesn't exist to keep your own Karma untouched, and at the end of each month it doesn't matter too much either way. If the rewards are notional there isn't much scope for abusing it. 

Although I should disclose that my first idea was to start everybody off each month with a set amount of Karma points, like 20, to last the month. But then if you aren't active you'll just accumulate the end-of-month rewards, however notional, and that's clearly not good either. 

[Verblonde]

7 minutes ago, Tafano said:

how to improve the system?

I'm not sure it needs to be: if karma actually did anything meaningful, it would get abused. I think @lovelacebeer covers it off well - although it's irritating to be reported for no good reason, I suspect it's mostly working as intended^TM

 

Edit: I would like the number of available compliments to increase though; *might* (says he with delusional optimism) marginally increase the positivity about the place...?

[Unknown_Lifeform]

Making karma more meaningful won't solve the issue of people reporting for petty reasons, I'd predict quite the opposite. Rather than the current karma system I'd like to see the ability to commend one player (friendly or enemy) after each game. This commendation would give them a modest bonus (extra container with how good the contents are being related to the number of commendations?).

[Tafano]

2 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

You can compliment somebody by spending 1 karma point (increases their Karma but decreases your own)

 

I can't agree: why punish this action? 

[DanSilverwing]

2 minutes ago, Tafano said:

I can't agree: why punish this action? 

It's philanthropy: you're transferring your own Karma to somebody else.

 

Either Karma has value, in which case no actions should be 'free', or Karma is worthless, in which case why have this discussion?

[Animalul2012]

How about rewarding players with higher RNG on getting super containers? Maybe better rewards from them,increase chances of getting a premium ship/doubloons/premium time from a super container/christmas boxes? 

Anyway I think people would start abusing this:they already report you for getting a 200k damage game+4 achievements, or other people would do it because....they want to share they re misery.

Maybe discounted prices on upgrades/ships(tech tree ones), coupons become available faster(if that can be possible).

[Floofz]

The problem is that people are very eager to downvote players when they feel like they havent played how they think they should or gotten killed by someone in a way they feel is "cheating". But its much rarer that people commend eachother when playing well.

I sometimes lose karma for simply losing a game even thou Ive done well in the battle. But even if I hardcore carry games with 500-1000 base xp more than the second guy its not always I get complimented.

And then you have the streamers or other famous players who gets complimented for just being there which ends up with thousands of karma points.

 

I think a good system would be to force each player in the game to pick one player they think was the best after each game. And after you get a certain amount of points you get a container, doesnt need to be a super container it could be anything. Or some other reward for that matter.

[Hanse77SWE]

Keep the "Misbehavior in chatt"-report but remove all negative Karma. Make it so only compliments can be given. At the end of the month, give out rewards based on how many. The more compliments, the better rewards. Let the top 10% or so get a "Karma-flag" with a small bonus for a month or something like that.

 

Enhance the positive and remove the negative.

[jss78]

I think overall you just shouldn't worry about karma.

 

That said, if you're perma-stuck at zero karma, I'm convinced you're doing something wrong. I have a strong positive karma and that's DESPITE playing CV's and occasionally getting salty in chat.

 

If the overarching picture was one of petty reports, this wouldn't be possible.

[Purnylla]

15 hours ago, jss78 said:

I think overall you just shouldn't worry about karma.

So they could as well make karma a hidden thing. No need to show it to the player if it's meaningless.

 

15 hours ago, jss78 said:

That said, if you're perma-stuck at zero karma, I'm convinced you're doing something wrong. I have a strong positive karma and that's DESPITE playing CV's and occasionally getting salty in chat.

I used to have positive karma, until I started playing CV. 

 

15 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Keep the "Misbehavior in chatt"-report but remove all negative Karma.

Misbehavior should cost you karma, isn't that the whole point with karma? The only thing that shouldn't be costing you karma is "playing badly", as karma shouldn't be about someone's skill level. 

[Hanse77SWE]

17 minutes ago, Purnylla said:

Misbehavior should cost you karma, isn't that the whole point with karma? The only thing that shouldn't be costing you karma is "playing badly", as karma shouldn't be about someone's skill level. 

But losing Karma isn't a "cost". You don't lose anything.

[Tafano]

I think Karma should help to improve the general good behaviour in chat.

So make it useful is something important for the game's health.

It should premiate good manners and good players, and incourage all to be positive and helpful.

 

 

[lossi_2018]

I like it. Lately I've been getting Karma points so after years at 0 (zero) I finally enjoy the ability to report lots of atrocities etc, or upvote the good people steaming around. I like this feature the most. It is harmless, provides comfort and you can get minimal satisfaction for no expense at all :)

[cracktrackflak]

IMHO karma is bad for the game because of the negative feeling it engenders.

 

I routinely lose karma points for being a top scorer in a winning team; each time it happens I feel less inclined to contribute to a team, support the wider community, or waste time on a game that facilitates such toxicity.

 

Malicious reporting probably outweighs positive reporting by a huge margin. You see entire teams with zero karma which, since negative karma is not used, presumably means many of these would be in deficit.

 

Positive karma is largely a farce, as clan mates spam each other with compliments.

 

 

[Jethro_Grey]

Hm. 

 

Add automated karma based on specific factors for each class. 

 

DDs that accumulate spotting damage and caps get rewarded with karma while DDs that suicide lose karma. 

 

BBs that do most of their damage in ranges in excess of 12km and have less then 3million potential damage lose karma. 

 

CVs can only lose karma in tanked and randoms. ^^

 

At the end of each patch cycle, hand out rewards based on karma accumulated or lost, then reset the karma counter. 

 

10+ karma could give those Asian lantern camos.

<10 karma Dragon signals 

Up to -10 negative karma removes the player from the random queue for 10 battles. 

 

> -10 negative karma sells all the BBs/ CVs/ DD  the player has and each time , doubles the XP required to grind them out again. 

 

 

To avoid abuse, reports by other players does not affect the karma accumulated. 

 

Taa daaaa! Problem solved! You’re welcome. 

[Zip__]

How about just having karma to compliment players, and have a separate feature for reporting players that doesn’t affect your karma rating.

[Skyllon]

21 hours ago, Tafano said:

(...) Any suggestion? (...)

Sure. Make maximum number of actions larger and scale it.

 

Current max report number in inappriopriate considering state of the game.

I need something to more effectively vent my frustration.

[GarrusBrutus]

Funfacts:

- Most players have 0 karma.

- Almost all players who have a below 50% WR have zero karma.

- Almost all players who are above 60% WR have about 1 karma per 10-20 games played (depending on toxicity of specific player).

Whenever I see screenshots from Matchmakingmonitor on various discords this gets confirmed.

[suppenkaschperl]

2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

- Almost all players who are above 60% WR have about 1 karma per 10-20 games played (depending on toxicity of specific player).

more like 100-200. I even know more players with 60%+ wr with 0 karma and they are not using the chat very often...

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

22 hours ago, DanSilverwing said:

Ahem

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/220365-wg-remove-karma-its-just-useless/?do=findComment&amp;comment=5093123

Although I should disclose that my first idea was to start everybody off each month with a set amount of Karma points, like 20, to last the month. But then if you aren't active you'll just accumulate the end-of-month rewards, however notional, and that's clearly not good either. 

The best way to get a lot karma would be to do nothing... ^^

[JohnMac79]

Just remove the karma system, it is broken and not fit for purpose.

[GarrusBrutus]

44 minutes ago, suppenkaschperl said:

more like 100-200. I even know more players with 60%+ wr with 0 karma and they are not using the chat very often...

CV players perhaps?