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Pappus

Cleveland - Help AP deals no damage

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I don't want to shoot HE anymore, but I can't get AP to work against BBs. They show me their broadside e.g. the fuso and I shoot at him hitting 8x for a grand total of 500 damage. Where am I supposed to aim? Especially in sub 10km ranges I don't deal any damage to them anymore should I try not to hit the deck and try to hit the side or what exactly am I supposed to hit there?

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[LUZ]
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You don't, AP is now broken. In order to reliably pen, you have to hit citadel. Anything else and it will bounce. HE is the only reliable source of damage now.

 

I'm scoring ricochets and bounces even on DD's, with a fully upgraded Cleveland... WTF. :amazed:

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Beta Tester
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The only citadels I get are against other cruisers so does BB really mean going for HE? Because I battled a fuso hitting 90x HE and it didn't even cut him in half.

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Weekend Tester
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I don't want to shoot HE anymore, but I can't get AP to work against BBs. They show me their broadside e.g. the fuso and I shoot at him hitting 8x for a grand total of 500 damage. Where am I supposed to aim? Especially in sub 10km ranges I don't deal any damage to them anymore should I try not to hit the deck and try to hit the side or what exactly am I supposed to hit there?

 

152 mm AP fire against hundreds of millimeters of steel, and you surprised you do not do damage?

Shoot HE god damnit

 

This was the beef of the BB drivers that Clevelands could eat them with AP

 

 

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Beta Tester
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50x He didn't even do 5k damage so I am not too sure right now what the point is. Should I just not fight BBs? I am a genuine cruiser beginner so I don't know what to do with the cleve.

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[LUZ]
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152 mm AP fire against hundreds of millimeters of steel, and you surprised you do not do damage?

Shoot HE god damnit

 

This was the beef of the BB drivers that Clevelands could eat them with AP

 

 

 

It's understandable that BB's can't be penetrated with something like this, but... how the heck I bounced few 152mm AP shells from tinfoil armor?

 

By the way, cruisers specialise in dealing critical and fire damage against BB's, thanks to sheer rate of fire and shell volume. You don't deal much direct damage, but wear them down over time.

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Weekend Tester
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View PostPappus, on 18 May 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

50x He didn't even do 5k damage so I am not too sure right now what the point is. Should I just not fight BBs? I am a genuine cruiser beginner so I don't know what to do with the cleve.

 

It's a light cruiser, If you can, you avoid BBs If you cannot stay as far as possible from them and pepper them with HE.

It's a world of battleships right now

 

View PostRybak1999, on 18 May 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

 

It's understandable that BB's can't be penetrated with something like this, but... how the heck I bounced few 152mm AP shells from tinfoil armor?

 

When you bounce you do zero damage, when you hit citadel you do your max shell damage, in between those two you do regular damage 


 
Edited by BigBadVuk

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Alpha Tester
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When you shoot HEs don't aim for the belt armor - aim for the superstructure. There you deal the damage and start fires.

And it's more then logical if those small fast firing guns can't penetrate BBs armor, it's supposed to be so.

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[LUZ]
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When you bounce you do zero damage, when you hit citadel you do your max shell damage, in between those two you do regular damage 

 

Nope, my argument is still valid. You just explained the mechanics of damage. I still have no idea how 152mm AP shell can bounce from Minekaze, for example.

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[T-N-T]
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Weekend Tester, Players, In AlfaTesters
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I don't want to shoot HE anymore, but I can't get AP to work against BBs. They show me their broadside e.g. the fuso and I shoot at him hitting 8x for a grand total of 500 damage. Where am I supposed to aim? Especially in sub 10km ranges I don't deal any damage to them anymore should I try not to hit the deck and try to hit the side or what exactly am I supposed to hit there?

 

You can not penetrate BB main armor with 155 AP shell so you should use the HE shells for highly armored targets as BBs.

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Beta Tester
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When you bounce you do zero damage, when you hit citadel you do your max shell damage, in between those two you do regular damage 

 

I didn't see any regular damage at all. Flat out nothing and as fire doesn't wear them out nearly fast enough I guess I will resort to running away for now.

 

Edit: To clarify I did good damage above 10km compared to HE spam. like a solid hit would deal 2k but that is when the arc of the shells was higher

Edited by Pappus

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Beta Tester
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Cleveland only has 6" guns what are you expecting? The heavy cruiser 8 " have a bit more of a punch.

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Weekend Tester
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Nope, my argument is still valid. You just explained the mechanics of damage. I still have no idea how 152mm AP shell can bounce from Minekaze, for example.

 

extreme angles, If you hit armor at degrees exceeding 70-80° then you bounce 

 

btw I though you refer to minimal damages based on your first comment 

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Beta Tester
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I wasn't expecting anything I was just wondering if my aiming was bad and me dealing little damage to BBs was my fault. If it isn't possible then I understand and shoot HE although it has so little effect. Also the fire chance is a flat out lie. I have 4 main batteries that are listed as 12% fire chance that would mean that I am to expect a fire every second full salvo when reality is more like 4-5 salvos per fire. Is there something I can do to increase my chances at lighting up my targets?

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Weekend Tester
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I failed to penetrate his broadside, from 3km. I've heard the "ding" sound.

 

deck armor maybe?

Or just did not hit anything important enough to do damage

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Alpha Tester
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I didn't see any regular damage at all. Flat out nothing and as fire doesn't wear them out nearly fast enough I guess I will resort to running away for now.

In case you don't know BB is your counter class and supposed to kill you easily. If you are used to the old OP Cleavland spamming AP and penetrating everything it's another matter. Now you can be just as annoying spamming HE when aiming for the superstructure and not the belt.

 

I failed to penetrate his broadside, from 3km. I've heard the "ding" sound.

either bounce or overpenetration, it's not rare wirh DDs, that's why it's always HE vs them.

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Beta Tester
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In case you don't know BB is your counter class and supposed to kill you easily. If you are used to the old OP Cleavland spamming AP and penetrating everything it's another matter. Now you can be just as annoying spamming HE when aiming for the superstructure and not the belt.

 

either bounce or overpenetration, it's not rare wirh DDs, that's why it's always HE vs them.

 

The belt is the outside of the ship right so if I want more fire and "crits" I am to get the HE explode "on deck"?

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Beta Tester
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Nope, my argument is still valid. You just explained the mechanics of damage. I still have no idea how 152mm AP shell can bounce from Minekaze, for example.

 

You probably over penetrate it, over penetration doesn`t do damage often too.

Bassically Cruisers kill DD`s with HE and other cruisers with AP`s as for BB`s you are not supposed to be able to kill them, they are the counter to cruisers.....

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[FIFO]
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I wasn't expecting anything I was just wondering if my aiming was bad and me dealing little damage to BBs was my fault. If it isn't possible then I understand and shoot HE although it has so little effect. Also the fire chance is a flat out lie. I have 4 main batteries that are listed as 12% fire chance that would mean that I am to expect a fire every second full salvo when reality is more like 4-5 salvos per fire. Is there something I can do to increase my chances at lighting up my targets?

 

whoo stop right there...did we just have someone complain that the fire chances are not high enough?!

 

first to answer your question, fire chances are lower when you hit the hull, and the enemy BB can have the damage control equipment (that reduces fire chance by 5%) and if he has a high skill captain, he can use fire prevention as well (an additional -7% fire chance). in order to start fires hit the superstructure or deck (basically anything above the hull) and hope the enemy captain doesn't have the fire prevention skill.

 

also don't expect to burn down a BB at a amazing rate, while your shells will do about 700 dmg when you hit the superstructure, the fire (level 1) will only deal a few hunderd damage per tick...you will have to start multiple fires in quick succession to get massive fire damage on the target. the first fire will likely be insta doused, and getting a triple fire going requires roughly 30 shells with the 12% fire chance (and the assumption that they have the damage control equipment)

 

okay...pre-patch, you needed 40+ hits on average to get a fire...it was bugged and fire of HE shells was practically useless. now we have people complain about HE fires on these forums non-stop. some suggesting stuff like "maximum fire damage tresholds" or "adding additional fire dousing options". 

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[RONIN]
[RONIN]
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I wasn't expecting anything I was just wondering if my aiming was bad and me dealing little damage to BBs was my fault. If it isn't possible then I understand and shoot HE although it has so little effect. Also the fire chance is a flat out lie. I have 4 main batteries that are listed as 12% fire chance that would mean that I am to expect a fire every second full salvo when reality is more like 4-5 salvos per fire. Is there something I can do to increase my chances at lighting up my targets?

Bear in mind if he's got the firefighting equipment, your chance of fire drops to 7%. You can take the pyromania skill to add +7% to your chance.

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Beta Tester
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The upgraded Cleveland with the AA ability is the Best Ship to support against Aircrafts. Making Carrier attacks on BB´s on your side useless. Play it just as supporter and stay back. You got a nice Range - higher than your spotting range. Just support with some HE shells and try to survive. Stop capping from enemies, hold Destroyers on range to your BBs and so on.

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[REKT]
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If i am not wrong you can use ap shells outside of the armorbelt so shoot stern and bow. I noticed that you do more damagd there then on the belt. But you won't citadel them.

In my cruisers i try ap at range for plunging fire but often switch to HE. But vs a Kongo and the new tier 9 ijn BB you can use AP with good effect.

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[NG-]
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The upgraded Cleveland with the AA ability is the Best Ship to support against Aircrafts. Making Carrier attacks on BB´s on your side useless. Play it just as supporter and stay back. You got a nice Range - higher than your spotting range. Just support with some HE shells and try to survive. Stop capping from enemies, hold Destroyers on range to your BBs and so on.

You must be a BB player? Do you know how little XP you get from "just supporting the BBs? Unless the enemy is stupid they will never even be within engagementrange for your guns when you have a battleship close to you.. 

 

Cruiser playstyle for me is using the sheer amount of firepower to piss targets off with fires, torps and whatever I can throw at them. If a DD tries to get you, you should wreck it. But I will never "hang out" with BBs engaging people from 15-20km as that makes me nothing else than the BB meatshield 

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Beta Tester
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23 ap hits for a total of 8k damage including citadel hits

93 HE hits for a total of  29k damage. 311 average damage per HE hit

Set a total of 3 fires for 11k damage so maybe you see what I am referring to when I mean problems. Especially I tried hitting the superstructure with HE and I couldn't notice any different in fire rates.

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