The Flood of German Premium Ships Worries me.

[Sunleader]

Lately Wargaming has been Bombarding us with German Premium Ships.

Now as I like German Ships this is actually a Happy thing for me. Because I was always hoping for more German Ships. And we have not been getting any for quite a while before.

But on another Viewpoint this also Worries me.

 

 

Because right now Germany only has 1 Line for each Class. (Soon at least. When the Carriers Arrive)

And I actually Hoped that in the Future we might See Additional German Lines. Or at least Partial German Line Splits beyond T6.

But lately this is getting less and less Likely because more and more of the available Designs are getting thrown into the Game as Premium Ships.

 

For Example.

The Current München is the Early Design for the M-Project Light Cruiser.  Which I would have Placed as a T8 as a Splitoff Point from the German Cruiser Line.

Followed by the Late Design M-Project for T9 and the Mainz without the Armor Nerfs and with a Heal on T10.

 

For Example.

We now got 2 O-Class Battlecruisers and the Odin. Which could easily have been used with Odin at T8 being a Split off from Gneisenau. And then Leading to Ägir on T9 and Siegfried on T10 being Battleships instead of Supercruisers.

(The O-Class was a Battlecruiser Project after all)

 

For Example.

We now get the Z35 Destroyer which is the 5x12.8cm Gun DD. Which I would Placed at T8 with Better Smoke and more Focus on Guns. On T9 you could then have used the Z43 which a Destroyer of the same Type. And which could get some Improved Reload and Speed in the Game. With T10 being the Type 1945 Destroyer Project that was never Finished. Which was a German Destroyer which had 4x2 128mm Guns and the Standard German Torpedo Layout thus being a Perfect Choice for a German Gun DD.

 

 

 

Premiums would have been Better off being the Oddities of the German Naval Projects.

For example the 1937J Destroyer which had 5 Single Mount 15cm Guns and only 1x4 Torpedoes.

The P-Class Panzerschiff with 2x3 28cm Guns and an Impressive Secondary Suite as a Supercruiser.

The H43 with 4x2 50cm Guns

The German Flugdeckkreuzer Project which was an Aircraft Carrier that would only have Carried 2 Types of Planes but would have come with an Secondary Armament Consisting of 2x28cm Guns and alot of Smaller Guns :P

 

 

 

I wonder if we now will ever see another German Tech Tree Line given that WG is using all the Designs as Premium Ships instead.

 

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Meanwhile adding subs to random games does not worry you? ;)

 

Joke aside, WG has proven to be resourceful when adding blueprint ships to the game (hint: soviet lines), so I have faith in them, that at least they will not run out of content.

I am no naval history expert, but I would think there is still a lot of potential ships for the splits .... at least i don't think its something you would need to "worry about".

 

Now I go back to worrying how the game will break once they add subs in randoms ....

[U69_2020]

3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Meanwhile adding subs to random games does not worry you? ;)

No! 

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Meanwhile adding subs to random games does not worry you? ;)

 

Joke aside, WG has proven to be resourceful when adding blueprint ships to the game (hint: soviet lines), so I have faith in them, that at least they will not run out of content.

I am no naval history expert, but I would think there is still a lot of potential ships for the splits .... at least i don't think its something you would need to "worry about".

 

Now I go back to worrying how the game will break once they add subs in randoms ....

 

Well. I think Subs might be the Way to Break the Meta and Save the Game.

I have long been Annoyed by the Fact that the vast majority of Influence lies with CVs and DDs.

 

And here Submarines might be coming in for a Break in the Meta which will Change the Game forever.

Because Submarines will take over the Vanguard Duty of DDs. While at the same Time Submarines can Fulfill this Vanguard Duty without being Easy Targets for CVs.

 

DDs will be Forced to Play more Defensively. Something they often already have to do anyways if the Enemy has a Decent CV Player. This will of course Limit their Influence as part of that Influence is now taken over by Submarines.

Likewise as this very Influental Part of their Gameplay is taken over by Submarines. Not only will they lose that Influence. But the CVs who got most of their Influence from Killing DDs and thus Denying this Influence to the Enemy Team. Cant Kill Submarines which do this Job.

 

This way the Game might actually Turn out Massively Better Balanced with much more Spread out Influence among the Classes.

[Pekoe_Darjeeling]

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Odin at T8 being a Split off from Gneisenau. And then Leading to Ägir on T9 and Siegfried on T10 being Battleships instead of Supercruisers.

3 ships that would be fun to have as high tier line split where all added as premiums pretty much at the same time. But to be disappointed by this you first have to have expectations from wg so I can't say I'm disappointed.
 

 

9 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Meanwhile adding subs to random games does not worry you? ;)

No.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Well, I hope all your positive views on the subs come to real then.

I myself appear to be too pessimistic about them...

 

Back to topic now, we don't want a mod to close it because of sub chat.

[Sunleader]

Just now, nambr9 said:

Well, I hope all your positive views on the subs come to real then.

I myself appear to be too pessimistic about them...

 

Maybe its just that my Look on the Current Situation is too Pessimistic ^^

So to me. A New Ship Class that will Change this Meta is almost Guaranteed to be Positive ^^

[Besserwisser3000]

Vor 1 Stunde, Sunleader sagte:

 

Well. I think Subs might be the Way to Break the Meta and Save the Game.

I have long been Annoyed by the Fact that the vast majority of Influence lies with CVs and DDs.

 

And here Submarines might be coming in for a Break in the Meta which will Change the Game forever.

Because Submarines will take over the Vanguard Duty of DDs. While at the same Time Submarines can Fulfill this Vanguard Duty without being Easy Targets for CVs.

 

DDs will be Forced to Play more Defensively. Something they often already have to do anyways if the Enemy has a Decent CV Player. This will of course Limit their Influence as part of that Influence is now taken over by Submarines.

Likewise as this very Influental Part of their Gameplay is taken over by Submarines. Not only will they lose that Influence. But the CVs who got most of their Influence from Killing DDs and thus Denying this Influence to the Enemy Team. Cant Kill Submarines which do this Job.

 

This way the Game might actually Turn out Massively Better Balanced with much more Spread out Influence among the Classes.

 

Have you actually played the submarine mode?

Not only is it unfun and boring to play subs (if I want to look into darkness, I`ll turn off my light and stare at the wall), it is also unfun to play against them.

It`s a disaster brewing.

[U69_2020]

Just now, Besserwisser3000 said:

Have you actually played the submarine mode?

Not only is it unfun and boring to play subs (if I want to look into darkness, I`ll turn off my light and stare at the wall), it is also unfun to play against them.

It`s a disaster brewing.

I like it very much. I mainly concentrate on destroying subs both with my DD and my SS, and both alternatives are fun. The only thing that makes life miserable for ASW duty is the incredible negligently programmed bot AI that makes them frag you on every occasion.

[SirAmra]

9 minutes ago, U69_2020 said:

I like it very much. I mainly concentrate on destroying subs both with my DD and my SS, and both alternatives are fun. The only thing that makes life miserable for ASW duty is the incredible negligently programmed bot AI that makes them frag you on every occasion.

Yeah, just imagine u do this in randoms with your DDs. Being permaspottet by the sub and the CV. Everyone is firing just at you. Gunboat DDs and smokeless DDs will be less viable in this meta. Or we just end up with players just ignoring the ASW hunt cause they are tired of getting blapped.

CVs are still a mess, and now they focus on another class, which they have huge problems balancing.

 

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

On topic

Yes, I'd love to see more KM lines in this game. Heck, I'm rly looking forward to getting the Italian BB line too.

But it kinda looks like getting stuff moved to the RB and other stuff we don't want, are more important.

 

[Sunleader]

16 minutes ago, Besserwisser3000 said:

 

Have you actually played the submarine mode?

Not only is it unfun and boring to play subs (if I want to look into darkness, I`ll turn off my light and stare at the wall), it is also unfun to play against them.

It`s a disaster brewing.

 

Jup Played it.

And I actually Find Submarines very Exiting to Play.

 

Unlike the Cap Point Brawls between DDs which are often not Decided by the Players Brawling but by the Teams behind them. The Submarines can have a Brawl which is more Personal and less Influenced by the Surrounding Ships.

Submarines cant really Win alone against a CV. But likewise a CV cant Stop them either. And Unlike DDs they have a more Efficient Way of Dealing with Radar.

 

Subs thanks to having the Ability to move on despite being Detected also come with another Advantage. Which is that they can Flank Island Cover and Bow in BBs that just stand somewhere.

They are a True Blockade Breaker because their Torps dont leave a Gap and will adjust for smaller movements.

 

 

They got some issues of course. Like the Cheesing with 6m Depth or the Point Blank Torps. But thats minor issues that can be fixed easily.

But in Total they are Great Fun to Play for me. 

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

I think we'll see more line splits like the Soviet cruiser split - Starting only at tier 8.

 

I think the interested in lower tier ships is very low at the moment and this certainly creates a lot less work for Wargaming.

[Camperdown]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Maybe its just that my Look on the Current Situation is too Pessimistic ^^

So to me. A New Ship Class that will Change this Meta is almost Guaranteed to be Positive ^^

Be careful what you wish for. WeeGee in my experience has an almost infinite resourcefulness in making the game even worse than you ever considered possible 

[Sunleader]

12 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

Be careful what you wish for. WeeGee in my experience has an almost infinite resourcefulness in making the game even worse than you ever considered possible 

 

Possible ^^

But think of it like this.

 

If currently the Game is already Boring in my Eyes.

Then not Changing it means a 100% Chance of it Remaining Boring. There is 0% chance of it becoming Fun again.

Changing it might have an 80% Chance of it Remaining Boring or getting even more Boring. However it at least has a 20% Chance of making it Fun again :)

 

Hence. I rather take the 20% Chance than the 0% Chance.

[Ronchabale]

7 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Possible ^^

But think of it like this.

 

If currently the Game is already Boring in my Eyes.

Then not Changing it means a 100% Chance of it Remaining Boring. There is 0% chance of it becoming Fun again.

Changing it might have an 80% Chance of it Remaining Boring or getting even more Boring. However it at least has a 20% Chance of making it Fun again :)

 

Hence. I rather take the 20% Chance than the 0% Chance.

True, if they flood it with other ships there is more chance of players not using a CV or a submarine

 

Pity tho that most german ships are gimped in some way in contrast to the glorious Soviet (paper)

ships

[Panocek]

Why add ships players can get for free, when you can charge 60eur for them

[Miscommunication_dept]

My concern with subs is that they will kill destroyer play.

I’m sure we’ve all been in the position of being spotted by an enemy you cannot see while their team pummels you from afar. 
I’m worried subs will do that to destroyers.

 

If destroyer populations dwindle we’ll see more subs. Who can counter them?

Light cruisers have depth charges but how long would they survive, spotted and searching for subs rather than duking?

 

Submarines as they are currently will not change the long range HE meta that we have now and could well make it worse.

 

 

[TeaAndTorps]

We ships if the same class with different in-game characteristics – Bismarck and Tirpitz; NC, Alabama and Massachusetts; Fletcher, Black and Kidd; Belfast and Edinburgh – so I don't see why WG couldn't do a similar thing for some of the paper designs and use them for the line splits OP hopes for.

[Ronchabale]

1 hour ago, gopher31 said:

My concern with subs is that they will kill destroyer play.

I’m sure we’ve all been in the position of being spotted by an enemy you cannot see while their team pummels you from afar. 
I’m worried subs will do that to destroyers.

Yes, I agree, another task for DD:S to sort as if its isn´t enough with Radars, focus fire from CV:s spotting and rocket planes, now u are gonna outspotted with a couple of km by subs leading to even more focus fire.

 

Quote

 

If destroyer populations dwindle we’ll see more subs. Who can counter them?

Light cruisers have depth charges but how long would they survive, spotted and searching for subs rather than duking?

Yes, I played the Budyonny against subs and was pretty much perma spotted the whole game

 

Quote

Submarines as they are currently will not change the long range HE meta that we have now and could well make it worse.

 

 

Not all cruisers have depth charges (as if moving up in a cruiser and being outspotted and by like 5-6 km isnt enough)

Long range HE spam is gonna get even worse, yes

 

Only way subs could be of any use is if they spawned them close to the enemy spawn so they possibly could do some damage to the untouchable CV:s

(But I can see that getting out of hand fast with unicum sub players sinking the CV from the start making the rest of the game lopsided)

[HaachamaShipping]

Who would ever have thought that instead of line splits we get more premiums? Not like Massa/Georgia/Ohio, Warspite/Hood/Vanguard/Thunderer didn't already make the direction pretty clear.

[invicta2012]

2 hours ago, gopher31 said:

If destroyer populations dwindle we’ll see more subs. Who can counter them?

Light cruisers have depth charges but how long would they survive, spotted and searching for subs rather than duking?

This depends on whether WG adapt destroyers for an anti-submarine role. We've only seen Tier VI play so far and traditional depth charges, which clearly have drawbacks for destroyers (having to sail over the target, being spotted, etc). DDs having more advanced ASW weaponry - forward facing ASW mortars like Hedgehog, Limbo and Squid - will change the meta for submarines (it certainly did in the North Atlantic during WW2) and WG will have to decide how they balance that, both in relation to sub/DD interaction and overall MM.

[invicta2012]

2 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Who would ever have thought that instead of line splits we get more premiums? Not like Massa/Georgia/Ohio, Warspite/Hood/Vanguard/Thunderer didn't already make the direction pretty clear.

ASW focused DDs would make a great silver line, and no great shakes in terms of modelling the ships, as most of them are already in the game.  Plenty of scope for premiums too. But that would spoil WGs fun, I guess.

[Saltface]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I wonder if we now will ever see another German Tech Tree Line given that WG is using all the Designs as Premium Ships instead.

If the German market for the game is so big (as I suspect it is) it makes sense. Better sell the ships that let people grind them as silver ships (free)

 

Off Topic (lol I couldnt resist)

I think the current Sub game mode is not representative of the Sub game-play, if and when and how it will end up in the game.

This is my feeling. So, I find it very speculative to say anything at this point in time. Lets see the next iteration.

 

 

 

[Miscommunication_dept]

14 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

This depends on whether WG adapt destroyers for an anti-submarine role. We've only seen Tier VI play so far and traditional depth charges, which clearly have drawbacks for destroyers (having to sail over the target, being spotted, etc). DDs having more advanced ASW weaponry - forward facing ASW mortars like Hedgehog, Limbo and Squid - will change the meta for submarines (it certainly did in the North Atlantic during WW2) and WG will have to decide how they balance that, both in relation to sub/DD interaction and overall MM.

No matter how strong the ASW weapon is. The destroyer still has to sit in the front line,detected, with incoming fire from half the enemy fleet, for the whole  time it’s searching.

[Miscommunication_dept]

3 minutes ago, Saltface said:

If the German market for the game is so big (as I suspect it is) it makes sense. Better sell the ships that let people grind them as silver ships (free)

 

Off Topic (lol I couldnt resist)

I think the current Sub game mode is not representative of the Sub game-play, if and when and how it will end up in the game.

This is my feeling. So, I find it very speculative to say anything at this point in time. Lets see the next iteration.

 

 

 

You’re probably right about the current sub game.

I will zip up and say nothing more about it on this thread!