Jump to content

10 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Beta Tester
22 posts
220 battles

It seems silly that a BB would drop a broadside onto a CV or DD and get so little damage. Penetration is too general and the damage needs to be proportional not only to the shell size/type but to the target type as well. So yes a BB "overpens" a DD so only would receive 6% of the shells damage but then say it calculates Shell class (403mm BB) vs target (DD) and then quadruples that so the hit does one quarter damage. it can't be a hard fix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[GR-V]
[GR-V]
Beta Tester
2 posts
7,321 battles

why on earth should a ap do full damage to a dd as far is going through from 1 side to the other just 2 holes use he u get penetration and critical...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
177 posts
1,543 battles

 

can say look at history has been over the decades examples of this happening there are 2 sides to your suggestion  I think you need to swap to he 10km and under and ap for more than 10km will help you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
164 posts
3,421 battles

from 1 side to the other just 2 holes

yeah but those are some pretty big holes to be honest.. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
147 posts
3,474 battles

But you need to put a lot of holes in a ship, especially a warship to sink it. :)

 

Here a quote from the Battle of Samar, where a IJN force consisting of battleships and Cruisers took on Destroyer, Destroyer Escorts, and light carriers:

 

 Their lack of armor tended to aid clean penetration of armor piercing rounds before Japanese gunners switched to high-explosive shells, which caused much more extensive damage.

Amazing thing is that the USN managed a tactical victory out of that uneven fight.

 

Or in other circumstances, there are cases when bombs just went through a whole ship before exploding. The problem there is when it exploded under the keel the resulting damage was also quite extensive but not as critical as if it exploded inside.

 

Here one case of the Fritz X, a 1300kg bomb with 320kg warhead:

 

 The Royal Navy's light cruiser HMS Uganda was hit by a Fritz-X off Salerno at 1440 on 13 September. The Fritz X passed through seven decks and straight through her keel, exploding underwater just under the keel. The concussive shock of the Fritz X's underwater detonation close to Uganda's hull extinguished all her boiler fires, and resulted in sixteen men being killed, with Uganda taking on 1,300 tons of water. The Uganda was towed to Malta for repairs.

 

And if your bomb is big enough you can even overpenetrate a Battleship, happened with a Tallboy (5 ton bomb ,with 2,5tons warhead)against the Tirpitz

 

 The Tallboy penetrated the ship, exited the keel, and exploded in the bottom of the fjord. 800 to 1,000 t (790 to 980 long tons; 880 to 1,100 short tons) of water flooded the bow and caused a serious increase in trim forward. The ship was rendered unseaworthy and was limited to 8 to 10 kn (15 to 19 km/h; 9.2 to 11.5 mph). Concussive shock caused severe damage to fire-control equipment. The damage persuaded the naval command to repair the ship for use only as a floating gun battery. Repair work was estimated to take nine months, but patching of the holes could be effected within a few weeks, allowing Tirpitz to be moved further south to Tromsø. On 15 October, the ship made the 200 nmi (370 km; 230 mi) trip to Tromsø under her own power, the last voyage of her career

 

In both bombcases the damage was mostly due to the shock of the explosion beneath the ship. But both ships did not sink from it.

As an AP round that overpenetrates would probably explode on the side the additional damage would be minimal and "only" leave 2 holes. 

 

So technically it is quite fine that big guns do only minimal damage with AP shells to lightly armored ships.

In WOWS the guns of the Warspite are quite a good example, shoot at a destroyer or light cruiser AP and you will only get maybe 2k damage from a good hit, shoot HE and the damage might be about the same but you will do quite a lot of module damage and start a fire.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,088 posts
2,085 battles

Yep, at WoT the damage from AP comes from the penetration and resulting shrapnell inside the tank, but ships are way to large for such small holes to matter. BB AP rounds are equiped with a small explosive charge, if this charge detonates inside a ship the damage is horrible, but if the projectile exits the ship and then explodes you can "ignore" the resulting holes.

 

Well, compared to the size of the ship, the crew behind these holes would still be toast, but what are 5 crewman compared to 1.000 and more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SINC]
Beta Tester
85 posts
4,005 battles

today i noticed the "best" overpen syndrome i have ever seen-my fuso at various ranges overpenetrated pensacolas and carolinas so hard, it did absolutely no damage (overall about 50 shots did no damage). shouldn't a ship that had its hull overpenetrated vertically take on water? shouldn't the entire bridge superstructure simply collapse from being overpenetrated by about 10 shells? i destroyed 3 primary guns on carolina without inflicting any damage (carolina eventually resorted to ramming people). what about vertical overpenetration of cvs, which are basically waffles of metal layers that each should have a chance to activate the detonator of the AP?

as of now i am greatly discouraged from using APs, as i cannot reliably do damage, crits or other things i can with HEs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
147 posts
3,474 battles

today i noticed the "best" overpen syndrome i have ever seen-my fuso at various ranges overpenetrated pensacolas and carolinas so hard, it did absolutely no damage (overall about 50 shots did no damage). shouldn't a ship that had its hull overpenetrated vertically take on water? shouldn't the entire bridge superstructure simply collapse from being overpenetrated by about 10 shells? i destroyed 3 primary guns on carolina without inflicting any damage (carolina eventually resorted to ramming people). what about vertical overpenetration of cvs, which are basically waffles of metal layers that each should have a chance to activate the detonator of the AP?

as of now i am greatly discouraged from using APs, as i cannot reliably do damage, crits or other things i can with HEs

 

Well you would need a much more detailed damage model for that, then what is now in the game.

But warships are very resilient, and with a good damage control party even major floodings will not stop a ship from fighting. With all the bulkheads warships have, a shell or torpedo hole is often just in 1 area and even if you take on water there it is not really a problem, there are enough battlereports of ships taking on tons of water and still fighting on.

Sure if you riddle the superstructure with shells it might collapse in parts, but all you loose is most of your comgear and radar antenas. Probably the rangefinder for the firedirector, but again nothing really serious stopping you from fighting. You might kill the senior bridge crew if they did not move away fast enough, but steering and all that is housed inside the citadel so the ship would be maneuverable. Loosing the firedirector would force the guns to acquire the firing solutions on their own, which is manageable, you loose probably rate of fire and accuracy.

 

But would be nice to have the damaged modeled and not these static changes just depending on the HP lost.

 

As a rule of thumb if you overpenetrate switch to HE for the next salvo, and shoot not at the superstructure with AP.

With the current patch unless you can reliably penetrate the citadel you are better off firing HE anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,088 posts
2,085 battles

"Switch to HE" is not that much of a viable option if you have to wait ~20s to see if your projectiles did damage and then another 30s for a reload.

 

 

Propably the biggest reason why even BB spamm HE like crazy. It may not be perfect when fighting other BB, but moduledamage and fire is still a nice source for damage and you dont have to live with "Overpenetration" on Ships with "only" 250mm of Armor.

Edited by Wischmob_von_Eimer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
37 posts
1,095 battles

So  you are telling me that  a big [edited]shell like the 356 or 403mm  that hits a destroyer, penetreate's him and exits the other side wile traversing the interior of the ship dose absolutely no dmg?...seriously?...then why doesn't  a shell that hits a ship at long range, so it hits frome the top and exits the bottom of the ship, cause flooding?...ok lets try to put something in RL...a dd pops up frome the corner of an island at close range to a BB...the BB shots a salvo and hits the DD 5 times ...will that DD steal be in perfect condition to continue the fight?...well the game thinks the DD will sail away with minimum dmg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×