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ErteRthefirst

American VS Japanese carriers.

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I got back to WoW a couple days ago and I am planning on going down one of the three CV trees. From what I have seen so far I like the Japanese and the American carriers the most. I am leaning towards the Japanese tree more mostly   because of their AP bombs and their torpedo's. However I have heard mixed messages about the Japanese AP bombs. On one hand I have seen them citadel ships for pretty insane damage but I have also heard that they require quite some skill to get good results with and have quite the tendency to over pen and do very little. So for someone who is completely new to the class should I go for the Americans or the Japanese?

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Wait a bit and go for the upcoming German CV line. Assuming WG keeps its powercreep habit they should be quite good. But it's German, so who knows, maybe they will be the worst!

on a more serious note, I've heard American ones are more casual-friendly but I'm no expert. To make good use of japanese AP bombs you must know which ships to target with and also aim for the right spot. They require practice.

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Okay thanks for the response. Also why would they give the germans their own CV line? Because apart from the USN the RN and IJN no country really had enough carriers to justify a adding them to that country's tech tree.

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19 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

I got back to WoW a couple days ago and I am planning on going down one of the three CV trees. From what I have seen so far I like the Japanese and the American carriers the most. I am leaning towards the Japanese tree more mostly   because of their AP bombs and their torpedo's. However I have heard mixed messages about the Japanese AP bombs. On one hand I have seen them citadel ships for pretty insane damage but I have also heard that they require quite some skill to get good results with and have quite the tendency to over pen and do very little. So for someone who is completely new to the class should I go for the Americans or the Japanese?

Dis still hurts even after so long :/

 

On a lighter note, I love them both. The only con the AP booms have is they have dependence on rng and desync, both being a very cruel randomizer on your hits/scores. They can make yr day wit a 3xcit miracle or just dud you in the worst possible moment. Hence most normal captains opt to use moar torps. Also you can't hit dds wit them for meaningful dmg but I have scored hits on subs due to superb rng (it is so rare I stopped playing and run out screaming. The neighbors called de police, so have it at the back of yr mind haha ) 

 

USA are all rounders. They can kill anything.

 

I prefer IJN. Hosho is a beast, Ryu is brilliant, Shokaku can do the job and Haku you either love it or hate it, it depends on whether you are driving it or not at the time :D

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3 hours ago, ErteRthefirst said:

So for someone who is completely new to the class should I go for the Americans or the Japanese?

Full disclosure: I'm rubbish in CVs and mainly play them in Ops or Coop, but I do have - I think - almost everything up to T8 (no Indomitable though).

 

I would suggest playing both IJN and US; there are a couple of reasons for this:

  • More practice at T4; although this sucks for your targets, it's a good way to get the hang of the basics of how the things play - both lines.
  • Ops at T6; this is the point where you (IMO) start to get a sense of the 'character' of the various lines. Play both T6 options and you'll be able to learn them both thoroughly, and make a more informed decision regarding which line to push on with.
  • CVs at higher tiers have a very significant impact on the game; you'll probably get flamed a lot if you are not - in people's view - sufficiently practiced. Whilst this shouldn't be a factor, you'll probably have a nicer time if you get plenty of practice at the lower tiers first; the 'which CVs' decision making being easier is then just a bonus.

 

(Edited for stupid double-negative.)

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18 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

I am planning on going down one of the three CV trees

Please don't. We already have more than enough game ruining cancer flying around.

Can't you just play a proper ship? Literally any other class?

 

19 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

they require quite some skill

Oh please. Line up with the ship lengthwise. Drop when the ellipse gets small. Much skill, such wow.

 

20 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

and have quite the tendency to over pen and do very little.

Just like any other AP shell in the game. Then again, apart from DDs there probably won't be much you'll be overpening, unless the shell lands on bow / stern

 

 

9 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

Assuming WG keeps its powercreep habit they should be quite good.

9 minutes ago, elblancogringo said:

German

That's a funny fight waiting to happen. Will the new CVs keep their broken god-tier unbalanced status, or will we finally get CVs with actual counters because they're german?

 

4 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

Also why would they give the germans their own CV line?

*khm* Look at the russian tech tree. As long as those fantasy ships are there the only answer to "why would the give nation X ship(s) Y" is "why not"

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4 minutes ago, ErteRthefirst said:

Also why would they give the germans their own CV line? Because apart from the USN the RN and IJN no country really had enough carriers to justify a adding them to that country's tech tree.

The insatiable desire for new content!

 

It could be worse: at least the Germans (mostly) built a real carrier, and - I think - started work on at least one other conversion. The KM CVs will eventually appear to be a blissful historical utopia compared to when the inevitable (over-compensating) Russian CVs turn up...

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Man come on, the german CV is well photographed and documented. While it run no missions, Tirpitz didnt run a ton either, a lot of ships already in the game run none as well and a great many of them never existed... even on paper :)

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3 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Full disclosure: I'm rubbish in CVs and mainly play them in Ops or Coop, but I do have - I think - almost everything up to T8 (no Indomitable though).

 

I would suggest playing both IJN and US; there are a couple of reasons for this:

  • More practice at T4; although this sucks for your targets, it's a good way to get the hang of the basics of how the things play - both lines.
  • Ops at T6; this is the point where you (IMO) start to get a sense of the 'character' of the various lines. Play both T6 options and you'll be able to learn them both thoroughly, and make a more informed decision regarding which line to push on with.
  • CVs at higher tiers have a very significant impact on the game; you'll probably get flamed a lot if you are not - in people's view - not sufficiently practiced. Whilst this shouldn't be a factor, you'll probably have a nicer time if you get plenty of practice at the lower tiers first; the 'which CVs' decision making being easier is then just a bonus.

Your right the best way to find out which of the two lines suits me best is to just play them both. And since its just 20k XP it shouldn't be all that hard to grind out.

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Just now, lossi_2018 said:

Man come on, the german CV is well photographed and documented. While it run no missions, Tirpitz didnt run a ton either, a lot of ships already in the game run none as well and a great many of them never existed... even on paper :)

Yeah your right. Considering the amount of paper ships already in the game a few more wont matter much.

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Always choose reliability and practicality over laughable notions such as skill or talent. The latter approach didnt help Japanese much against Americans historically vis-a-vis ship design and personel selection. Same applies to the game; at tier 6-8 US carriers are just better at dealing with all classes whereas Japanese specialize against battleships and clueless cruisers. Furthermore US planes are faster, more resilient and strike in squads of three instead of two. These variables and especially the variable involving the strike squad size might not seem to be important but when the time necessary for planes to fly to the target and return along with limited window of opportunity due to lethality of flak is taken into consideration, Ranger and Lexington simply come out on top. As for tier 4-6 British carriers... their area saturation bombs are fatal against any destroyer regardless of how much it tries to evade. I hate destroyers with a passion so Furious and Ark Royal were and still are my favourite tier 6 CVs. 

 

Long story short; pick US carriers.

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2 hours ago, ErteRthefirst said:

I got back to WoW a couple days ago and I am planning on going down one of the three CV trees. From what I have seen so far I like the Japanese and the American carriers the most. I am leaning towards the Japanese tree more mostly   because of their AP bombs and their torpedo's. However I have heard mixed messages about the Japanese AP bombs. On one hand I have seen them citadel ships for pretty insane damage but I have also heard that they require quite some skill to get good results with and have quite the tendency to over pen and do very little. So for someone who is completely new to the class should I go for the Americans or the Japanese?

Considering I've just got my first techtree tier X a few days ago, which happens to be the Audacious, I wonder why you're ruling out the British carriers? The planes might be slow, but they have good health pool. Oh and those carpet bombers are pretty nice. Even when a destroyer is laying in smoke in the cap, I just need one of my many bombs to hit to reset their cap timer. :P

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Generally speaking IJN CVs require more skill to use effectively but will also be more effective in return unless in very specific circumstances.

USN CVs are more beginner friendly while being only a bit behind IJN CVs at top level effectiveness.

 

RN CVs do not exist.

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12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

RN CVs do not exist.

...okay, I'll bite.

 

Wut? :Smile_amazed:

I'm no CV expert, but I do seem to recall having the Hermes and the Ark Royal in my port. And whatever else they may be, they are Royal Navy...? 

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1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

I'm no CV expert, but I do seem to recall having the Hermes and the Ark Royal in my port. And whatever else they may be, they are of the Royal Navy...? 

 

They. Do. Not. Exist.

(Aside from Ark Royal which is a great CV for her tier and Audacious which is decent enough.)

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

They. Do. Not. Exist.

Ah. Of course.

 

My condolences. I... I spoke without thinking. I am so sorry. The pain must be very great.

 

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2 hours ago, ErteRthefirst said:

I got back to WoW a couple days ago and I am planning on going down one of the three CV trees. From what I have seen so far I like the Japanese and the American carriers the most. I am leaning towards the Japanese tree more mostly   because of their AP bombs and their torpedo's. However I have heard mixed messages about the Japanese AP bombs. On one hand I have seen them citadel ships for pretty insane damage but I have also heard that they require quite some skill to get good results with and have quite the tendency to over pen and do very little. So for someone who is completely new to the class should I go for the Americans or the Japanese?

You could go for any non-CV class.

No need to add toxicity to the game by playing that :etc_swear::etc_swear: class.

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47 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

They. Do. Not. Exist.

(Aside from Ark Royal which is a great CV for her tier and Audacious which is decent enough.)

HMS Hermes circ. 1931

1024px-HMS_Hermes_(95)_off_Yantai_China_

 

Fun story about the Hermes. They were actually two of them kinda here is the info from wiki

 

Two HMS Hermes

220px-DecoyHermes.jpg
 
Aerial view of SS Mamari III disguised as Hermes with a false flight deck and island.

The merchant ship SS Mamari III was converted to resemble Hermes as a decoy ship to confuse the Axis and was redesignated as Fleet Tender C. On 4 June 1941, when she was sailing down the east coast of England to Chatham Dockyard in Kent to be converted back into a cargo ship, the decoy Hermes hit a submerged wreck off Norfolk during a German aerial attack. Before she could be refloated, she was crippled by German E-boats and abandoned in place.

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The Japanese seems to hold all the cards in regards to aircraft speed and torpedo damage which is a serious advantage for a CV obviously and it's not like their attack aircraft and bombers lag all that far behind. The bread and butter of a CV so far as I can tell, after you have done your spotting and DD attacking duties, is hammering slower ships hard with torpedoes and the Japanese aircraft just get to a target faster and back home faster while hitting harder than any other nation, at least from my experience, I haven't played the tier10 ones.

 

On big maps, that speed advantage is obviously going to accumulate with each sortie and become a factor across the course of a battle as you get up the map faster and then those aircraft return faster meaning you hit the targets sooner and your squadron numbers will be replenished sooner(assuming they don't all get knock out) which means you are in a position to strike again sooner than any other nations CV offerings. Having the most powerful torps on top of the speed advantage all the more reason. Just to top it off I think they also have the best camo rating which for scouting runs and sneaking up on already spotted ships by a teammate, makes them survive longer when spotting ships since they don't get shot at as fast and also surprise an enemy target a bit later when attacking with torps which of course gives that target a little less time to react to an aircraft which has better camo and also is coming at them faster than any other aircraft. It just all adds up to the Japanese being the most powerful combination of attributes.

 

On the downside you would, imho, at the very least want to have 10 pointer commander for Sight Stabilization skill because the Japanese have the slowest aiming torps of all and ironically some of the Japanese strengths actually also their weakness. Their fastest aircraft speed combined with their fastest torpedo speed AND slowest aiming means you actually don't have a whole lot of space to play around with during attack runs and very little margin for error and so this makes them the most demanding and skilled CV nation to play. You often simply can't attack and have to turn down targets because their's not enough bank your aircraft hard and get a satisfactory aiming pull on your torps, all while your aircraft are dropping like flies to flak, AA and fighters plus they are the weakest aircraft of all nations so missing targets, overrunning and miscalculating attacks are heavily punished and you really need to be getting damage for every effort made since it's most likely going to be heavy losses for the effort. By comparison, the British CV's are the most comfortable to play and while technically the weakest nation, their aircraft can turn more like a helicopter, aims ultra fast, keeps a tight aim even while changing lead or adjusting angles mid-attack and drop torps with very little room needed at all, practically being able to hit targets close to a redline from the redline side itself lol. 

 

The U.S. CV's? Yaaaaaaaa I don't really like em tbh. Fair enough I never bought the T8 yet and most likely won't BUT, my experience with them is that their aircraft are decent, nice bombers but their torpedo bombers which technically aim fast have are really sensitive to any mid-attack run adjustments which makes their aim lines spread really easily at the slightest adjustment in heading and most unlikable of all for me personally is that their torpedo spread is very wide and so any reasonably agile ship can pretty comfortably evade at least one torpedo and this also throws me off too as I am trying to compensate for which torpedo I feel is most likely to end up being dodged and it all goes a but arse-shaped and becomes a more BB focused affair in order to maximize damage potential but this is maybe just me. 

 

So far as the CV's themselves go, as in the ship itself. The Japanese are the weakest built ships with the poorest AA but again they have the best camo which helps a bit and of course the ships ability to fight isn't really ever a thing anyway so whatever about that. The U.S. seem to be pretty solid ships while the British are bristling with the strongest AA offerings of all(I think) and so when it comes to a CV vs CV fight the British carriers are pretty formidable at removing enemy aircraft ASAP. 

 

So ya basically in short Japan lol.

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1 minute ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Fair enough I never bought the T8 yet

Lexi is very sweet and those TTs omg :Smile_smile:

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3 hours ago, Purnylla said:

Considering I've just got my first techtree tier X a few days ago, which happens to be the Audacious, I wonder why you're ruling out the British carriers? The planes might be slow, but they have good health pool. Oh and those carpet bombers are pretty nice. Even when a destroyer is laying in smoke in the cap, I just need one of my many bombs to hit to reset their cap timer. :P

Mostly because I heard that they were the weakest of the three nations. But considering it isn't much trouble at all to grind out the first tier IV carrier. And to be fair I like the look of the hermes the most of all 3 starting carriers. I am probably going to unlock all 3 starting carriers play around with them for a bit to see which one suits me best and then decide which tree I will focus on. I also want to thank sir sinkalot for his big post that helps out a lot. Then to the people that say the CVs are cancer all I can say is that I am not going down that tree because of their design. I am just a big fan of WW2 naval combat and CVs in particular. And WoW is one of the few games that gives you the ability to command one of those ships thus I decided to start grinding them out.

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I remember I really disliked the Hermes. Couldn't do well in it. Perhaps it was because I was relatively new to playing CV back then, perhaps the ship is just not my thing. The tier VI Furious was considerably more enjoyable than the tier IV Hermes, so judging the line based upon the tier IV might not be the best.

 

Also I have clanmates claiming the British CV are very good. They also say the US CV are the worst. But I guess everybody has their opinions.

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16 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Oh please. Line up with the ship lengthwise. Drop when the ellipse gets small. Much skill, such wow.

But in true playerbase fashion, some manage to still fail at it. Or drop DDs with them.

14 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

They. Do. Not. Exist.

(Aside from Ark Royal which is a great CV for her tier and Audacious which is decent enough.)

Audacious is actually decent? Maybe I should actually grind the last few exp on my Implacable for it then.

15 hours ago, Purnylla said:

Considering I've just got my first techtree tier X a few days ago, which happens to be the Audacious, I wonder why you're ruling out the British carriers? The planes might be slow, but they have good health pool. Oh and those carpet bombers are pretty nice. Even when a destroyer is laying in smoke in the cap, I just need one of my many bombs to hit to reset their cap timer. :P

Planes are slow, hp pool is large but offset by worst regen times. If you take for example Lexington, planes are slightly less beefy, but even if a couple die (which inevitably will happen if you aren't just attacking ships with literally no AA), the Lexington can sustain losses. An Implacable cannot. Which makes stuff like fighter planes an even worse threat to their performance than for any other CV line. And sure, carpet bombers might hit a DD in smoke with one bomb, but that's totally RNG based and you might as well miss a DD that is out of the smoke. Obviously if you are actually trying to kill the DD, not just reset caps, the bombers are woefully inadequate compared to actual HE dive bombers. Thankfully the rocket planes are decent vs DDs, so the real issue with the carpet bombers then is, that their pen is poor, the rocket pen is poor, making the TBs the most reliable damage dealers and in their role overtaxed for slowly regenerating planes (not to mention that they aren't even really better than the others) and you are left with farming DoT damage. RN CVs are CVs, but they are as a tech tree line the worst of the bunch with the lowest impact on game outcome.

1 hour ago, Purnylla said:

Also I have clanmates claiming the British CV are very good. They also say the US CV are the worst. But I guess everybody has their opinions.

US line has the advantage that as long as you have planes, you can literally hurt anything. With high pen rockets and high pen HE bombs as well as decent torps, USN can easily cycle through plane types and never run out of planes.

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1 hour ago, Purnylla said:

I remember I really disliked the Hermes. Couldn't do well in it. Perhaps it was because I was relatively new to playing CV back then, perhaps the ship is just not my thing. The tier VI Furious was considerably more enjoyable than the tier IV Hermes, so judging the line based upon the tier IV might not be the best.

 

Also I have clanmates claiming the British CV are very good. They also say the US CV are the worst. But I guess everybody has their opinions.

Primary issue with Brit CVs is they are entirely balanced by RNGesus whims. Fully aimed rocket strike on DD? 3 rockets (our of 36) on target. Panic mid turn rocket splat on the same DD later? 10 hits.

Tier 10, Audacious, while no longer is handicapped in squadron size or replacement times, have severe lack of anti cruiser tools - rockets have only 27mm pen while bombs can reliably miss a continent, let alone cruiser.

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I haven't really grinded the other carrier lines yet, so I have little to compare the British CV line with. At the moment I'm happy with my Audacious. I do plan to work my way up towards the other carrier lines in future though. :) 

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