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Yusuf_Ismail

HE is OP

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Beta Tester
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607 battles

I was cruising along in my new mexico brawling with another new mexico na di was getting more shots on target than him but only doing 3-7k dmg and he was using HE and doing 10-15k dmg with less shells hitting.

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[HAERT]
[HAERT]
Quality Poster
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Just had a game where my New Mexico was tag teamed by a Fuso and an Omaha at close range. The Fuso landed 32 hits and did 30031 damage with AP, the Omaha landed 62 shells and did 27312 damage with HE. As one of my suggestions here, the amount of damage HE can do to a battleship or a heavy cruiser should be reduced drastically. Both are basically floating armoured boxes. Everything inside is protected from HE and, up to a point, from torpedoes. Everything outside of that box is basically expendable. Because the damage model is basically: x hitpoints, so y hits for z damage sink your ship, it doesn't matter what type of ammo you use. Right now, it seems as if we would be better off focusing on cruisers first. Maybe we should all just switch to HE. Which is absurd. You need AP in a naval battle against armoured warships for a reason.

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Beta Tester
385 posts
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I just had a game where I got set on fire around 5-6 times. Hardly anyone seems to use AP anymore.

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Beta Tester
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I was with my Nagato (tier 7 BB) a few matches ago, full health and I met an Omaha (tier 5 cruiser) and he almost killed me and not even at max range that he could kite me, it was at about 8-11 km, .... I didn't have a chance, between my OPs (over-penetrations), his crits in my modules and the fires, I almost died, good thing the game ended before that.

 

Anyway,

One more reason that HE is the way to go these days is because the OP (over-penetration) is off the charts now. I shoot with my BB with AP at the sides of a cruiser from all shorts of distances and I do 6-7 outta 10 hits OPs with min. dmg, 1-2 hits with average to small-ish dmg and only 1 good shot (I'm not talking about citadels). The AP needs to be more reliable, like in World of Tanks. If I hit, I get some "bounce" chance, ok, but I know I would do some short of decent average dmg most of the times. Now it's like "wtf"....

 

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[R7S]
[R7S]
Beta Tester
175 posts
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Well <8" AP has a good shot at bouncing now where HE spam can just critical and set fires like crazy... so yeah.

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Weekend Tester
48 posts
40 battles

I got oneshooted with my Cruisern soooo [edited]often cause ap from BBs so nerf AP BBs shells?

 

Now Cruiser cant at least hurt a BBs when they have to fight them ...

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Beta Tester
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I got oneshooted with my Cruisern soooo [edited]often cause ap from BBs so nerf AP BBs shells?

 

Now Cruiser cant at least hurt a BBs when they have to fight them ...

 

I had no problems killing enemy BB in my Cleveland, Pensacola or New Orleans pre 0.3.1 and never got killed with one salvo. Could it be that you try to out BB the BB by going within brawling distance?

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[BLUMR]
Beta Tester
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I was with my Nagato (tier 7 BB) a few matches ago, full health and I met an Omaha (tier 5 cruiser) and he almost killed me and not even at max range that he could kite me, it was at about 8-11 km, .... I didn't have a chance, between my OPs (over-penetrations), his crits in my modules and the fires, I almost died, good thing the game ended before that.

 

Anyway,

One more reason that HE is the way to go these days is because the OP (over-penetration) is off the charts now. I shoot with my BB with AP at the sides of a cruiser from all shorts of distances and I do 6-7 outta 10 hits OPs with min. dmg, 1-2 hits with average to small-ish dmg and only 1 good shot (I'm not talking about citadels). The AP needs to be more reliable, like in World of Tanks. If I hit, I get some "bounce" chance, ok, but I know I would do some short of decent average dmg most of the times. Now it's like "wtf"....

 

 

What exactly prevented you from switching to HE?

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[SINC]
Beta Tester
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What exactly prevented you from switching to HE?

 

about 30 seconds and hope that a direct hit to the citadel would activate the AP

cruisers on HEs can effortlessly take down any bb in less than a minute. heck, i spammed HEs from my cleveland on yamato so much, i could smell the butthurt of its captain from my room-he was constantly on level 3 fire, had two of his main guns constantly critted, and i was destroying his secondaries with every volley-he had NO way of fighting back. i still feel dirty and guilty about it. so yes, i am all in for nerfing the insane damage of the HEs

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Beta Tester
147 posts
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This buff has gone a bit too well for HE.

Before 3.1. it was mostly useless, now its the ammo of choice for smaller guns, as the potential damage is nearly the same as AP with the added bonus of fire.

 

Yesterday I did 56k HE damage with my Omaha with an added 12k fire damage, sinking 2 cruisers and one battleship.

And that was not a unique case, 20-40k He damage plus additional fire in every game.

I was constantly 1. or 2. in XP on my teams (something I hardly ever managed before the patch)

 

As much fun it is to see the enemies burning and crits popping up, this is a bit too much right now.

Edited by Boomer7

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[REKT]
Beta Tester
318 posts
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Maybe i suck but i never seem to "easy kill a bb" with my cruisers?

Yes sometimes i get some nice hits, but in a real 1vs1 i 8 out of 10 times will lose from s BB if the player is good.

Also, look at the massive BB ques, if Cruisers where all that strong, wouldn't more play them?

Yes HE is to strong, but that goes for everyone not just for CA vs BB

 

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Beta Tester
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Maybe i suck but i never seem to "easy kill a bb" with my cruisers?

Yes sometimes i get some nice hits, but in a real 1vs1 i 8 out of 10 times will lose from s BB if the player is good.

Also, look at the massive BB ques, if Cruisers where all that strong, wouldn't more play them?

Yes HE is to strong, but that goes for everyone not just for CA vs BB

 

Might be because of teh cruisers you play, I see you have most of your games in high tier IJN cruisers.

The HE spam only really works with cruisers who have tons of quickfiring guns.

Also it is easier in low to mid tier. Try running a St. Louis, Omaha or Cleveland with HE and see how you constantly set Battleships on fire and take out their guns, steering,....

In the time it takes the Battleship to get off one salvo you have poured already 3 into him. Lets assume 10 shots per salvo not too unusual, so that 30 shots, with probably 10-20 hitting, with the now higher firechances that are probably 2-3 fire plus additional crits.

If you catch the Battleship out of position its often not even fair before it can swing its guns around it it often a burning wreck.

 

Even the lowly Destroyer guns now set Battleship regularly on fire.

 

The real problem now is the increased damage of the HE shells. On the 6" guns HE damage is now maximum 2000 per shell while AP is 3000. To the 2000 you can add firedamage as well. Firing on an armored target the AP for me do around 1k damage per hit, before the patch HE did maybe a few hundred, now most HE hits do between 1000-2000 damage.

 

So as I said under 8" I do not really bother shooting AP anymore

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Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Were in Beta and supposed to test, so I am playing some HE only games atm.

And to be honest, HE only is not that good. Its only usable against BBs where your HE is not very good.

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[FAIL]
Beta Tester
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I just had a game where I got set on fire around 5-6 times. Hardly anyone seems to use AP anymore.

 

for many smaller calibre guns HE does more damage and doesn't have the risk of bouncing plus it has a decent chance of causing a running DOT effect, so the real question is why would you not use HE ?

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Beta Tester
375 posts
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3.1.1 will fix the HE issue:

 

You assume. WG haven't specified how and when HE shells ignored armour, and based on their wording it would imply that the current system is working largely as intended. If you know something more than this, please speak, but otherwise let's not assume that this problem will go away in the next patch.

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Beta Tester
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In my opinion the game is out of balance right now to put it mildly. He is OP (my opinion)  as I mostly use he on destroy and cruisers. How can a BB burn to death? I mean can a steal plate burn?....or can He pen the armor of a BB and detonate something inside?..i can't understand how can a destroyer lite a BB up and in 1 minute take 25% maybe more of its hp off with a smaller gun that the BB secondaries, or how can I do 2k-3k-5k dmg with HE against BB and then do 500-1k ...2k max on a destroyer?

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Weekend Tester
131 posts
3,088 battles

Assuming WN mean in 'some conditions' is when you fire HE at a target, yes it might be fixed downloading patch now will try it with an afternoon and evening of HE spam sandwhiches while my wife is out at a Party good times :D

 

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[-RFA-]
Alpha Tester
237 posts
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In my opinion the game is out of balance right now to put it mildly. He is OP (my opinion)  as I mostly use he on destroy and cruisers. How can a BB burn to death? I mean can a steal plate burn?....or can He pen the armor of a BB and detonate something inside?..i can't understand how can a destroyer lite a BB up and in 1 minute take 25% maybe more of its hp off with a smaller gun that the BB secondaries, or how can I do 2k-3k-5k dmg with HE against BB and then do 500-1k ...2k max on a destroyer?

 

beats me... but given that on multipel points during both world wars, that was what happend!

Alright, ships are not made only of steal plate, on many a ship, the deck is covered in wood, and there are a number of thing that can burn on a ship, so really it is fine a ship can "burn to death"!

 

There is perhaps a bit of a problem with HE from BB's against DD's, is it something that needs to be fixed... That I think is debatable... DD's have it hard enough as it is, and quit often gets oneshotted... But on the other hand HE shot seams to be rather RNG, sometimes you one shot a DD (either in a Cruiser og BB) other times one hardly do dmg when hitting... All in all it is most likely that the HE shots hits something that is not the actual hull of the DD, and thuse a large part of the force is wasted... Not sure, but the ribon of hitting a ship, should by now, be known by everyone that it is not the same as hitting and dealling dmg

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Weekend Tester
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so far with over 50 hits given by my yubari of each type  first 50 counted (to varied targets as its in game)

 

He average damage per hit 425  burning dmg average per he hit 287

Ap average damage per hit 365 including 6 citadels so thats about 10% citadel rate.

 

No citadels with HE though was getting about 10% before patch with He as well maybee thats what is 'fixed'  

 

Ap remains underperforming on this and He remains over or on a par with Ap prior to patch imho

 

 

 

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Beta Tester
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I just had a fight with my Baltimore.

 

I spot another Baltimore behind an island, he was too busy fighting some other ships on his other side, so I figure, I'd go out to his side and get an easy kill. And so I do, I go out of the corner of the island, at 8km from the enemy Baltimore, I fire my (pre-loaded) AP (cuz I knew I'd had his sides) and bam, citadel, I take his health down from 50% to 30%. "Easy kill", I think to myself and proceed to close in. Needless to say, from there on, from 8km till 3,5 km that I reached him, not only I didn't have any other citadel hits firing at his sides all this time (so ok, no citadels, bad RNG, no probs), but I did not even have a penetration! (only those of min. dmg) - 3 to 4 full volleys with all my guns to his side, if I sneezed I'd fill the enemy captain with my saliva but no, no pens. He even had the time to turn around and engage me, while firing HE, and I was in deep trouble!, Last shot was at 2,5 km, and if it didn't pen I'd just ram the b*stard*....lol

 

Anyway, seriously, something waaaayyyyy wrong with the pen of AP...... imo, ok, if enemy ship is far away or you don't fire at the sides, no prob, load HE, better safe than sorry, better smaller but sure dmg than no dmg at all, but firing at the sides? at medium to close range? at same class ship?

 

edit: 2 out of 2 times that I meet a Cleveland with my Baltimore, I load AP to take advantage of my better guns and armor Vs his HE spam, 2 outta 2 times I "over-pen"? I do min dmg? w/e.... and 2 outta 2 times he takes out one of my 3 main guns with his HE spam. Needless to say, I fear more enemy fast firing HE spammers than other ships.... Cleveland is my nr one nemesis........tragic? lol

Edited by Stugga

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Beta Tester
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Well, now even BB spam HE only...

 

Dont know if IJN BB have such ridiculous low AP penetration but given that I had no problems in my Amagi it is kind of shocking to see everything from Kongo to Amagi going for HE spam. And you know what? They actually do reasonable ammounts of damage, something that should not be possible, but they do. 

 

You need at least some Skill to get good hits with AP, all you have to do with HE is hit the enemy ship and watch it burn, if you are lucky you can cause multiple fires with one salvo, resulting in up to ~-1500 HP/s with 5 fires. But the worst part is, the fire, you can repair, but most the times they destroy (not damage) your guns, making you unable to use them for the rest of your match. Had to finish one game in my New Mexico with just one working gun left.

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Beta Tester
266 posts
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I just now had one of those matches. Me, 75% HP Baltimore Vs 50% HP cleveland. I met him around a corner between the islands at 5km mind you! Me, AP, him HE. I was shooting at his sides while he was shooting at my bow. Needless to say, not even one citadel or "good pen". All absorbed by his armor(?) or over-pen? Those min. dmg hits. Needless to say, maybe my secondary guns got him or something but hey, I had 3x fires on me the whole battle, I burned down from 75% HP to 0.....

 

And I wonder, what short of tier upgrades is that? Why on earth should we ever look forward to captain any ship beyond tier 5-6?

My tier 9 got pawned by a tier 6. It's like having your t-54 tank getting pawned by an easy 8 in world of tanks, while t-54 shooting at the sides of easy 8 while easy 8 shooting at an angled front of t-54!!!. In what kinda world this could be happening????

 

In world of tanks, you in tier 6-7 meeting a tier 9-10, you'd think "oh man, this gonna be tough" or you would just turn around and run. Here? - No prob, engines full ahead! - Ofc, this is not world of tanks and maybe devs would want more "balance" between the tiers, but now it feels very negative. I grinded my [edited]to get my tier 9 and it doesn't feel like tier 9. It feels.... "one of the same, a little better here a little worse there".

Edited by Stugga

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Beta Tester
95 posts
4,111 battles

I just now had one of those matches. Me, 75% HP Baltimore Vs 50% HP cleveland. I met him around a corner between the islands at 5km mind you! Me, AP, him HE. I was shooting at his sides while he was shooting at my bow. Needless to say, not even one citadel or "good pen". All absorbed by his armor(?) or over-pen? Those min. dmg hits. Needless to say, maybe my secondary guns got him or something but hey, I had 3x fires on me the whole battle, I burned down from 75% HP to 0.....

Baltimore eats Clevelands for breakfast, then asks for seconds with some Mogamis. Either angling of armor, or badly aimed shots.

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