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You sold me permanent camo for a tech tree ship for 5,000 gold. You now tell us that you are converting this ship to a "coal ship" and that those of us who bought gold and used it to but permanent camo can go to hell, you don't care. Not a new attitude from you Wargaming, but the clearest indication of it so far and the one that for me ends any chance of me parting with real money ever again. 

 

I have spent over €5K with you over the last 5-6 years and in the last year especially (it was creeping in before that, hence in the last year my spend has been WAY smaller than in previous years) all you have done is give me reasons not to trust you, not to do business with you again and spat in my face as a paying customer.

 

If you decide to replace a ship on the tech tree, your customers who bought a permanent asset for a ship in that position in that tech tree should get the premium camo transferred. Anything less than that is theft and an abuse of your terms and conditions.

 

If you can afford to lose my business and those of others who have acquired in game assets, then good for you, but I suspect the day will come when someone treats their customers with a little more respect and you will have lost out.

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The amount of people defending this decision is staggering. Suddenly dubs for demounting assets not to lose them (LM module, or sell them half price), cost of perma camo (which you get back so no problem? r u kidding me?) worth nothing. Getting a profit (of 2mil or 5mil creds -digital money vs real money) makes the whole ordeal just fine. Okay they are not totally terrible cuz they give you something back. You now just have to re unlock the line (to participate in RB) and re buy (regrind) a t10 ship. Note, it won't have a perma camo nor it will have an LM module. Both will be available at later date behind a pay wall. Wut the flying fook kind of logic is dis? :O

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Welcome to WoWS, where the DEVs play you while you play the game. 

 

And you you can bet your ***, they have more fun then you ever will. 

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Bethesta: Look we abused our players so much they created a hate-parody website of out new game. ITS FREE PR AND THEY STILL PLAY IT.


WG: Free bad PR and profitable costumer exploitation? Hold my beer! :cap_money::cap_money::cap_money:

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47 minutes ago, Charger76 said:

If you decide to replace a ship on the tech tree, your customers who bought a permanent asset for a ship in that position in that tech tree should get the premium camo transferred. Anything less than that is theft and an abuse of your terms and conditions.

Not that I agree with WeeGee's way of going about this, but to play devils advocate here:

 

You already had your benefits from the perma camo. Unless you bought it like a day before the line split was anounced, you already have gotten your money's worth out of the perma camo and you will continue to do so. For you nothing changes. You will still reap the benefits that a perma camo gives. Only those who didn't buy a perma camo will from now on be able to enjoy its benefits. Even though this may seem unfair to players who paid dubloons for it in the past. But what if your perma camo was transferred to petropavlovsk? Well, then those players who buy Petros perma camo will be upset. "why do I have to pay 5000 dubloons while this guy got the rewards on moskva AND now on petro?" and players will say "if I had known that perma camos would be transfered I would have bought it.". 

 

To make you feel better: I bought perma camos for my favorite ships at the time, Yueyang, Khabarovsk and Henri 4....... Shortly after my purchases each one was nerf hammered to oblivion. Talking about doubloons "well" spend. Yikes. 

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9 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

You already had your benefits from the perma camo.

Did I buy 5,000 doubloons worth of permanent camo for a defined number of games? No. 

 

The benefits I bought were to have permanent camo on a T10 Soviet Cruiser at the top of the tech tree. Something I largely bought for preparing to fight in clan battles then did not fight in any.

 

The only way that WG can steal something they previously sold to you for real money is by relying upon extremely questionable terms & conditions that are likely not going to survive a court review. In fact, if I ever get rich I will happily spend money to have such T&C's examined in court as being in breach of all EU consumer protections.

 

So whilst WG are pointing at their T&C, it should be reminded to them that these are likely in breach of consumer law. Whilst obviously in game things like ships, camo, etc. cannot be real assets given that if the game servers go down, there is no game, these T&C represent a legal workaround to defend against that issue. What WG have done is rudely abuse that "give and take" understanding to screw a few extra pennies out of customers. 

 

In any event, to rely upon such appalling rules when it costs WG nothing to behave in a normal manner (i.e what they sell to you you get to retain) just goes to show their complete disdain for long term customers.

 

It would be a very interesting study indeed to see where they make their money. €1K a year from me, but I'd bet I am an outlier and most are buying early packages to join then walking away within a year, hence WG's total contempt for long term customers - they make very little money from long term customers apart from a few whales like me.

 

I'll pay for what I would like to play with, but as now, I won't pay to be treated with contempt.

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7 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Not that I agree with WeeGee's way of going about this, but to play devils advocate here:

 

You already had your benefits from the perma camo. Unless you bought it like a day before the line split was anounced, you already have gotten your money's worth out of the perma camo and you will continue to do so. For you nothing changes. You will still reap the benefits that a perma camo gives. Only those who didn't buy a perma camo will from now on be able to enjoy its benefits. Even though this may seem unfair to players who paid dubloons for it in the past. But what if your perma camo was transferred to petropavlovsk? Well, then those players who buy Petros perma camo will be upset. "why do I have to pay 5000 dubloons while this guy got the rewards on moskva AND now on petro?" and players will say "if I had known that perma camos would be transfered I would have bought it.". 

 

To make you feel better: I bought perma camos for my favorite ships at the time, Yueyang, Khabarovsk and Henri 4....... Shortly after my purchases each one was nerf hammered to oblivion. Talking about doubloons "well" spend. Yikes. 

So the smartest thing to do from now on is, not to buy any premium cammo anymore, but just wait until they move a ship and you get it for free...….:cap_old:

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1 minute ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

So the smartest thing to do from now on is, not to buy any premium cammo anymore, but just wait until they move a ship and you get it for free...….:cap_old:

Or better yet, just stop paying for anything bar, MAYBE, a year of premium if you don't have enough premium ships to get away with never paying again.

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Of course, this is further dirt in the wound: I bought both the Ochakov and Bagration to ensure I could complete the Soviet Cruiser missions and get the permanent camo for the new T10 ship (assuming WRONGLY that WG would be honourable enough to transfer the permanent camo to the ship that replaced it over the Donskoi) only to find that WG is absolutely determined to make a joke of the whole thing buy giving me 5 Soviet cruiser tokens for 99% of the creates that I opened.

 

So, having spent €81 and played through all of the missions, had all three ships for 4 weeks for all 4 of the repeat missions, I am still 295 tokens short of the number needed to get the T10 permanent camo.

 

A Double "F£$K you" to a customer who parts with hard-earned cash for WG contempt.

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thats why i dont see the reason to pay any dubloons in any t10 ship camos. its wasted and it will be wasted in future. You agree the ROC? you rely on their desicions and they allways will say you not forced to pay for everything..there mamy other stuff that is free to play.

 

23 minutes ago, Charger76 said:

So, having spent €81 and played through all of the missions, had all three ships for 4 weeks for all 4 of the repeat missions, I am still 295 tokens short of the number needed to get the T10 permanent camo.

dude it is a gamble and it will be a gamble in future...you cant go in a casino loose 100€ and they crying arround that you won nothing....what do you expect.. its wargaming and if you here for 5 years like you say you should know better after the last years and events...and if you pay 81€ for the shortcut how do you expect that you reach the tier 10 camo, next time you should think twice save the 81€ and after you grinded the tier 10 you can do the same mistake again and buy the camo for 5000 dublons.

 

Just imagine that WG decides to close the service to end of the year bcuz less players playing the game or any other reason. Everything you payed for is gone forever and this scenario is possible in every online service.

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1 minute ago, Schtroebchen said:

thats why i dont see the reason to pay any dubloons in any t10 ship camos. its wasted and it will be wasted in future. You agree the ROC? you rely on their desicions and they allways will say you not forced to pay for everything..there mamy other stuff that is free to play.

 

dude it is a gamble and it will be a gamble in future...you cant go in a casino loose 100€ and they crying arround that you won nothing....what do you expect.. its wargaming and if you here for 5 years like you say you should know better after the last years and events...and if you pay 81€ for the shortcut how do you expect that you reach the tier 10 camo, next time you should think twice save the 81€ and after you grinded the tier 10 you can do the same mistake again and buy the camo for 5000 dublons.

No, not really. In the past with these challenges, you would get the full prize if you bought in early. That has changed, likely around the Puerto Rico era.

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opening containers WILL ALLWAYS be a gamble...if you got the full price in past you dont have a guarantee the you will get it in the future, and the only way to avoid this is not to pay a dime in anything that can be achived free2play

 

look i bought the bagration and reached the rigacamo...sure i would like to have the pertocamo too and even if i can afford it moneywise i dont throw my money to WG only bcuz i would like to have it. Iam happy with the rigacamo..its not the "mainprize" its something between and i dont expect anything then iam not disapointed if i dont reach what i would like to reach...its a gamble...its sad but it is well hidden gamble

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3 minutes ago, Schtroebchen said:

opening containers WILL ALLWAYS be a gamble...if you got the full price in past you dont have a guarantee the you will get it in the future, and the only way to avoid this is not to pay a dime in anything that can be achived free2play

 

Not always. It used to be "Buy all the bundles and you get all the rewards". Nowadays it's "Buy all the bundles and you MIGHT get all the rewards".

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2 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Not always. It used to be "Buy all the bundles and you get all the rewards". Nowadays it's "Buy all the bundles and you MIGHT get all the rewards".

mhm so if there are 5 options what you can get out of CONTAINERS its not a gamble what you get? You buy the bundle for a shortcut the new line...is there any guarantee in the bundle that says you get all rewards? no? Hm

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4 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Not always. It used to be "Buy all the bundles and you get all the rewards". Nowadays it's "Buy all the bundles and you MIGHT get all the rewards".

Yes, agreed, a very significant difference that basically says "buy the bundles and then buy a load of gold for lottery play" and you MIGHT get the rewards.

 

Which, translated into common tongue means "don't give WG a penny, you'll only regret it".

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Just now, Schtroebchen said:

 

mhm so if there are 5 options what you can get out of CONTAINERS its not a gamble what you get? You buy the bundle for a shortcut the new line...is there any guarantee in the bundle that says you get all rewards? no? Hm

In theory, no. You can get far more than 5 tokens per container. Over however many containers, that should balance out, but when 95% contain 5 tokens, that is not balanced.

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you still can reach the pertocamo...just throw 500dubloons to open the random packs...but think twice that could be gamble 100x500dubloons = 50k.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Charger76 said:

In theory, no. You can get far more than 5 tokens per container. Over however many containers, that should balance out, but when 95% contain 5 tokens, that is not balanced.

yeah and the world is a disk why should they do that and give 95% all rewards, so the new content will achived even if its not released. excuse me but thats bullshite

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7 minutes ago, Schtroebchen said:

yeah and the world is a disk why should they do that and give 95% all rewards, so the new content will achived even if its not released. excuse me but thats bullshite

You really just disagree for the sake of it don't you?

 

Lets say there were 50 crates to be earned in all. If the average value in a crate were to be 15 tokens, (i.e, the average apparent reward reading the text given that the possibilities were 5, 10, 15 , 25 and 300) that's 750 tokens versus the reality which was 250.

 

Thats enough to get the first two rewards. Not a huge reward, but if you point were reasonable, a reasonable reward for a "free" player to achieve and a decent incentive to take part in the missions.

 

Now if you bought the ships, you'd get as follows:

210 + 210 + 105 = 525 tokens. 

X4 = 2100.

 

2,100 + 750 = 2,850.

 

Total number needed to unlock everything = 2,850.

 

Ergo, it was entirely reasonable to think that if I bought the ships at the outset I would unlock all of the rewards in the event.

 

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2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Not that I agree with WeeGee's way of going about this, but to play devils advocate here:

 

You already had your benefits from the perma camo. Unless you bought it like a day before the line split was anounced, you already have gotten your money's worth out of the perma camo and you will continue to do so. For you nothing changes. You will still reap the benefits that a perma camo gives. Only those who didn't buy a perma camo will from now on be able to enjoy its benefits. Even though this may seem unfair to players who paid dubloons for it in the past. But what if your perma camo was transferred to petropavlovsk? Well, then those players who buy Petros perma camo will be upset. "why do I have to pay 5000 dubloons while this guy got the rewards on moskva AND now on petro?" and players will say "if I had known that perma camos would be transfered I would have bought it.". 

 

To make you feel better: I bought perma camos for my favorite ships at the time, Yueyang, Khabarovsk and Henri 4....... Shortly after my purchases each one was nerf hammered to oblivion. Talking about doubloons "well" spend. Yikes. 

And that's exactly why I say  that WeeGee f-* this up. In soo many ways, that's actually hard to number. There were a good number ways each one better then this botched up solution.

 And I mind you I will get the Moskva without paying for the perma camo. Yep.

 

Edit : Btw WeeGee's argument that people already got benefits from the camo is the same argument that WeeGee should give us all free weekend passes, coz he made already enough money out of the game.

  It is exactly the same and equally absurd:)

 

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3 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

The amount of people defending this decision is staggering.

I have to admit to being rather surprised at this myself.

 

The permaflage bit of all this is - IMO - the only really pi$$-poor part of the whole business (the credit differential between those who have Moskva in port and those who don't is a Richard move too, but I don't view that as serious as, for most people, it doesn't involve actual money); it also doesn't make any sense to me from a business perspective:

  • The cost to WG of providing existing Moskva cammo owners with something along the lines of a permaflage for the replacement silver T10 would be chicken feed (give people the freebie from the current event - no extra dev costs).
  • A lot of folk who have the cammo are going to think poorly of WG after this (always a bad thing; new customers generally cost more to obtain than keeping old ones around and spending).
  • The chances of people buying permaflage after this will be lower, even amongst those who aren't directly impacted (me, for example), as they now see that permaflage is no longer 'perma' (well, as much as anything in a game with a finite lifespan can be).
  • Recall the mantra of an angry person telling ten people, and a happy one only four (or whatever the real numbers actually are) - WG have managed to generate rather more of the former over this than the latter, I suspect.
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3 hours ago, lossi_2018 said:

The amount of people defending this decision is staggering.

I think people want their "free" fremium and kinda scared that WeeGee will have a change of heart.

WeeGee wanted to do some good, but they wanted to really carefully calculate how much good they will be doing.

The pitifulnes of their thinking is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Every time I'm gonna remember this event I'm gonna laugh my as* off as how.... yeah, they were.

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25 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I have to admit to being rather surprised at this myself.

 

11 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

I think people want their "free" fremium and kinda scared that WeeGee will have a change of heart.

I don't have either. Dis doesn't affect me currently. But since I do have perma for other ships I love to play, and intent on buying a couple of more I couldn't just stand silent for this. They are right. They also paid for it and feel hurt. I would, in their position. 

 

The second Adrew said is perhaps the answer. I understand they wanted to give but once again they appear overthinking stuff trying to get something from people that obviously spend real money in game instead of pleasing them. It is good for all other players sure. But forcing something is not good practice. You make a change that is nice and proper and move on. It shouldn't affect older players.

 

I also noticed a bit of, idk how to characterize it... indifference? from parts of the community towards the inability of players to pay money (dubs) in order to save some of their stuff. Someone that doesn't have a lot of dubs might even be reluctant to part with 100. Maybe he has only 2k or 5k ready to buy something else. Even that smol amount is an inconvenience for him/her or even a problem. But giving 1 (one) day of free de mounting of modules wasn't for them. It is nothing. No big deal, everyone would have been happy. But they didn't do it that way.

 

It's not a big deal (the creds) but it is the principle that hurts trust.

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2 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

So the smartest thing to do from now on is, not to buy any premium cammo anymore, but just wait until they move a ship and you get it for free...….:cap_old:

1 ship. They did this for 1 ship. And now everyone is acting like WG is doing this on a regular base. Not to defend WG, but :

3 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Not that I agree with WeeGee's way of going about this, but to play devils advocate here:

 

You already had your benefits from the perma camo. Unless you bought it like a day before the line split was anounced, you already have gotten your money's worth out of the perma camo and you will continue to do so. For you nothing changes. You will still reap the benefits that a perma camo gives. Only those who didn't buy a perma camo will from now on be able to enjoy its benefits. Even though this may seem unfair to players who paid dubloons for it in the past. But what if your perma camo was transferred to petropavlovsk? Well, then those players who buy Petros perma camo will be upset. "why do I have to pay 5000 dubloons while this guy got the rewards on moskva AND now on petro?" and players will say "if I had known that perma camos would be transfered I would have bought it.". 

 

To make you feel better: I bought perma camos for my favorite ships at the time, Yueyang, Khabarovsk and Henri 4....... Shortly after my purchases each one was nerf hammered to oblivion. Talking about doubloons "well" spend. Yikes. 

^ this guy got the right of it. Most, if not all, of the camo owners have bought it way back and have reaped the benefits of it for some time now. And you will do so in the future. The only thing that changes is that other people that didn't have those benefits, have them now. You on the other hand have everything they have plus all the benefits plus what you have earned up till now. So WG haven't takenn anything away from you, they added something for others.  And you all just are jealous that other people got something and you don't, while if they made the change without you knowing, no one of you would feel the worse about it that other people got the camo for free. 

 

Again, not defending WG here as I am an advocate that people who bought the moskva camo should get the camo for the replacement. But [edited] about this doesn't make WG look bad, but makes all of you come over as sour, bitter, jealous people that can't stand if someone else gets something while you don't. Again, WG isn't detracting something from your account. They are adding to someone elses. If does not affect your economics while playing, it just makes you sour that now others can get the same economics that you have reaped for a while now,  while they haven't paid anything for it. Being bitter about some else's good fortune without it affecting your own is called jealousy. And that is all there is to it.

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3 hours ago, Charger76 said:

You sold me permanent camo for a tech tree ship for 5,000 gold. You now tell us that you are converting this ship to a "coal ship" and that those of us who bought gold and used it to but permanent camo can go to hell, you don't care. Not a new attitude from you Wargaming, but the clearest indication of it so far and the one that for me ends any chance of me parting with real money ever again. 

 

I have spent over €5K with you over the last 5-6 years and in the last year especially (it was creeping in before that, hence in the last year my spend has been WAY smaller than in previous years) all you have done is give me reasons not to trust you, not to do business with you again and spat in my face as a paying customer.

 

If you decide to replace a ship on the tech tree, your customers who bought a permanent asset for a ship in that position in that tech tree should get the premium camo transferred. Anything less than that is theft and an abuse of your terms and conditions.

 

If you can afford to lose my business and those of others who have acquired in game assets, then good for you, but I suspect the day will come when someone treats their customers with a little more respect and you will have lost out.

 

Yeah Outrageus.

A Few Weeks Ago Creative Assembly did the same to me.

Giving out Shogun 2 for Free even tough I paid 60 Euro for it back in the Day.

These Unbeleivable Evil People. How Dare they give others something for Free that I paid for.

 

 

Sigh....

 

Sorry Guys. But Seriously. This is getting Boring.

You are losing NOTHING.

Your just Angry that Wargaming Dares giving other People something for Free that you have Bought before. Thats all there is. And Sorry. But this Entitled Attitude is just Annoying at this Point.

 

When you got Moskwa it didnt Say "Purchase Soviet Tech Tree Slot 10 Ship"  it said "Purchase Moskwa"

This Pitiful Attempt at somehow making it Sound like you would be robbed of something is making no Sense whatsoever.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

I think people want their "free" fremium and kinda scared that WeeGee will have a change of heart.

WeeGee wanted to do some good, but they wanted to really carefully calculate how much good they will be doing.

The pitifulnes of their thinking is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Every time I'm gonna remember this event I'm gonna laugh my as* off as how.... yeah, they were.

 

I actually Doubt WG wanted to do anything good there.

They simply changed something that nobody in his Sane Mind would expect to be Contested.

 

They effectively moved a Ship to a different Position and made it Harder to get in the Future.

And since the Ship in Future will Include a Perma Camo in the Price they decided to just Gift a Perma Camo to Everyone who doesnt have one.

Their Only Mistake was that they Underestimated just how Selfish and Jelous People can get when others get something for Free that they have Paid for.

 

I got a Graf Spee. And Guess what. In the Event of Odin Now. I will only get a few Credits and a useless Camo for it from the Event instead of getting a Premium Ship.

But do you see me Complain about not getting Doubloons ? Nope.

Instead I went ahead telling my Friends to get an easy Graf Spee for Free if they got some Time.

 

Would Doubloons be Nice ? Yes of course. I would love getting Doubloons. Especially because a T6 Ship wont give me any noteworthy Credits in the First Place.

But I can be Happy that others get something for Free. So instead of being Jelous that others get something for Free that I have Paid Money for. I just say alright. Lucky Ba****** and Smile it off.

Yet People here are going round trying to be a Lawjer using Chewbacka Tactic claiming. Oh no no. I never wanted Moskva or Camo for Moskva. I just wanted a T10 Soviet Cruiser and a Premium Camo for it regardless of what Ship it is.

 

And Sorry. But I dont Buy it. I just see a Bunch of Jelous People complaining at this Affront to their Royal Entitlement because WG dares giving others something for Free that they already got and thus dont get.

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