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YabbaCoe

0.9.5 - Changes in Soviet Cruiser Branch

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I've played both WOT and WOWS since betas or earlier and rarely come to forums to complain, and have to say this tech tree change is really frustrating.

 

Wargaming has an established history of replacing tanks and boats with their new variant when the tree is changed, as well as allowing us to keep the original. This happened in the Russian heavy tank line, this happened in the US cruiser line, this happened in the Japanese DD line, just to name a few. 

Coming back after a few weeks off excited for this update to find that that i need to repurchase the T9 cruiser and start the grind to the new T10 is a kick in the nuts from Wargaming. Forcing us to re-buy a ship most have bought, finished and sold, just so we can now re-buy it, regrind it, and again sell it not only wastes our time it costs us silver, not to mention that the T9 is not a ship many may particularly with to regrind.  Expecting the entire player base of effected players to be responsible to come to forums to find some backward exploit method of selling ships before patchday hits to recover some costs is ridiculous, if this was the case why not mention this in the announcement video or just automatically do this for the player base. 
 

Granted the T10 that was originally kept we still have, but the explanation "you keep the T10 you earned, now grind this new one because its fair" only works well if this was the first time this type of change has happened, it does not work after so many previous times it was handled by providing us with the changed vehicles as well as keep the old.

This situation wargaming is basically saying "we were generous to you all these times before, we will not be this time" which is not a very reassuring or positive attitude for the player base to experience.   

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15 minutes ago, belsibub said:

Isn't the Moskva supposed to be a premium?

It is showing under special filter in my port,is this right & does it make a difference?

Hi Captain, 

The Moskva is now labeled as a "Special Ship" which means that its post-battle service cost is now reduced to a half, from 180'000 credits to 90'000 and that Commanders from other ships of the same nation can be assigned to her without any penalties or retraining requirements. 😊

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3 minutes ago, scutty_ said:

But I did have the tech tree T10 Russian ship yesterday. In every other tech tree split/change in the past I would now have the T10 equivalent - why is this one so different?

It is a new ship. New ships have to be researched.

Gifting too many of them would be against the economic model of the game.

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

It is a new ship. New ships have to be researched.

Gifting too many of them would be against the economic model of the game.

Really - did it break the economic model with the US cruisers? Or the Jap DDs? There have been splits before and they showed us how WG could deal with it and not piss everyone off.

 

 

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1 minute ago, scutty_ said:

Really - did it break the economic model with the US cruisers? Or the Jap DDs? There have been splits before and they showed us how WG could deal with it and not piss everyone off.

These splits involved more ships and they did not gift Tier X ships.

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13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

These splits involved more ships and they did not gift Tier X ships.

No, but they did gift lower tier ships like the Kirov replacement. Which didn't happen either, this time.

The number of ships replaced is irrelevant when the whole procedure is changed.

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Před 30 minutami scutty_ řekl/a:

But I did have the tech tree T10 Russian ship yesterday. In every other tech tree split/change in the past I would now have the T10 equivalent - why is this one so different?

 

Premiums are not tech tree ships - you have to work to get tech tree ships - not just open your wallet. 

 

I'm confused why everyone doesn't feel ripped off by this change of policy from WG.

You didn't need to open your wallet, you basically got a ship, that is worth 244 000 Coal and Coal is not really easy to gather, apart from credit, for example.

There is definitely not a rip off, that your ship got better and another way to obtain another tier X appeared. We didn't take anything from you...

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Před 7 minutami Egoleter řekl/a:

No, but they did gift lower tier ships like the Kirov replacement. Which didn't happen either, this time.

The number of ships replaced is irrelevant when the whole procedure is changed.

When some changes in tech tree lines happened, it doesn't automatically mean, that it will happen the same next time.

Also before the changes affected only tech tree ships. But now you basically got two "special" ships out of tech tree ships, so you got more valuable ships out of that. So you can see, that this time the change is different...

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6 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

When some changes in tech tree lines happened, it doesn't automatically mean, that it will happen the same next time.

Also before the changes affected only tech tree ships. But now you basically got two "special" ships out of tech tree ships, so you got more valuable ships out of that. So you can see, that this time the change is different...

It is different on paper only. You decided to turn those tech tree ships into special ships.

The effect for the player remains the same. This time you removed tech tree ships without replacing them and without compensating for premium camos.

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Právě teď Egoleter řekl/a:

It is different on paper only. You decided to turn those tech tree ships into special ships. The effect for the player remains the same.

why? Now on both ships you can place any of your captains without the need to retrain them, also their battle maintenance is cut in half and they both do have a permacamo...

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21 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

why? Now on both ships you can place any of your captains without the need to retrain them, also their battle maintenance is cut in half and they both do have a permacamo...

Ok... let me show you your past principles of ship replacement.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/american-cruisers/

 

Quote

 

Principles of Ship Replacement

The general principle is "players will not lose anything".

  • A ship that has been replaced will remain available to the player (in their Port if she was purchased, and in the researched state if she was researched).
  • The replacement ship will be added to the player's account together with a ship slot (if the replaced ship has been purchased) or will become researched (if the replaced ship has been researched).
  • Replacement of modules will be carried out by means of adding similar modules for the new ship to the player's account, or by reimbursement of their cost in XP (added to the new ship) and credits.
  • For the replaced ship, her Commander's specialization will be changed to the ship of the corresponding tier in the standard branch. A new Commander with bonus XP will be recruited for the replacement ship.
  • If a permanent camouflage was purchased and mounted on the replaced ship, it will remain mounted on this ship and a new permanent camouflage (for the added ship) will be added to the player's account.

 

Do you see those prinicples somehow make a difference between special, premium, or silver ships? I do not.

If they are actual priniples they should not apply to only a single patch or two.

 

So why did you make the difference now and where did the "players will not lose anything" general principal go?

The players do have a loss that you do not acknowledge. They had an economically viable T-X silver ship before. They no longer have it now. If they want an economically viable silver ship again, you expect them to pay again for something they formerly already had and that you took away.

 

Yes, you have the right to change your ways. Of course. The issue is that you changed them drastically without telling your players why? You come from the top and decide that those prinicples no longer apply for some obscure reason. You tell us this split is different, when the difference is a technicality only. One tiny change and the whole priciples you set up are thrown out of the window and into the garbage bin and the players of course do not understand why. This might be another communication issue but to the players it looks like an attempted chashgrab and a letdown.

 

Those principles above are Wargamings promise to the players. It's you who posted them. At no point did you declare them invalid but now we know that they no longer apply. Wargaming changed. Not for the better. And it saddens me.

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On 6/9/2020 at 5:07 PM, YabbaCoe said:

 

  • Cruiser flag_Russia_6ce701e1c2f2ac3909a68a0a7b23standard_874a3bdc3134b8da4fd6f52186f1b2bX Alexander Nevsky can be obtained only after she has been researched and purchased in the Tech Tree.

 

 

Principles of Ship Replacement

The general principle is "players will not lose anything".

  • A ship that has been replaced will remain available to the player (in their Port if she was purchased, and in the researched state if she was researched).
  • The replacement ship will be added to the player's account together with a ship slot (if the replaced ship has been purchased) or will become researched (if the replaced ship has been researched).
  • Replacement of modules will be carried out by means of adding similar modules for the new ship to the player's account, or by reimbursement of their cost in XP (added to the new ship) and credits.
  • For the replaced ship, her Commander's specialization will be changed to the ship of the corresponding tier in the standard branch. A new Commander with bonus XP will be recruited for the replacement ship.
  • If a permanent camouflage was purchased and mounted on the replaced ship, it will remain mounted on this ship and a new permanent camouflage (for the added ship) will be added to the player's account.

 

WTF??? Wasn't it  been announced many times via community contributors that those who own Moskva will receive Nevsky and keep Moskva as a special ship (as a concept of "players will not lose anything")? Hasn't it been always done like this when tech tree branches were changed, like US CAs and IJN DDs were?

 

Well done, another soviet-made scam, I'm not willing to grind another 240k XP on Donskoy ONCE AGAIN. Leaving this bullshayt soviet excuse for a game, this time for good. Good I didn't bought premium time subscription I initially planned, you won't see a broken penny from me anymore, let this soviet game die!!! So long, soviets!!!

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2 minutes ago, Todeskult said:

 

WTF??? Wasn't it  been announced many times via community contributors that those who own Moskva will receive Nevsky and keep Moskva as a special ship (as a concept of "not loosing the in-game content")?

No...

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Před 6 minutami Egoleter řekl/a:

Ok... let me show you your past principles of ship replacement.

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/american-cruisers/

 

Do you see those prinicples somehow make a difference between special, premium, or silver ships? I do not.

If they are actual priniples they should not apply to only a single patch or two.

 

So why did you make the difference now and where did the "players will not lose anything" general principal go?

The players do have a loss that you do not acknowledge. They had an economically viable T-X silver ship before. They no longer have it now. If they want an economically viable silver ship again, you expect them to pay again for something they formerly already had and that you took away.

 

Yes, you have the right to change your ways. Of course. The issue is that you changed them drastically without telling your players why? You come from the top and decide that those prinicples no longer apply for some obscure reason. You tell us this split is different, when the difference is a technicality only. One tiny change and the whole priciples you set up are thrown out of the window and into the garbage bin and the players of course do not understand why. This might be another communication issue but to the players it looks like an attempted chashgrab and a letdown.

 

Those principles above are Wargamings promise to the players. It's you who posted them. At no point did you declare them invalid but now we know that they no longer apply. Wargaming changed. Not for the better. And it saddens me.

So those principles were for American Cruisers split. Those are not guidelines for any Ship replacement. But still we can say, that the main principle stays the same: Players will not lose anything.

 

And even now, players haven't lost anything. Their ship, that used to be a TX silver ship got even better, so their gained from this. Why those players were playing Moskva, for economics values? If yes, now they will profit much more. For its gameplay, well this stayed the same.

 

Still as I mentioned this changes in tech tree are different than the ones happened before.

 

Před 11 minutami Todeskult řekl/a:

 

WTF??? Wasn't it  been announced many times via community contributors that those who own Moskva will receive Nevsky and keep Moskva as a special ship (as a concept of "not loosing the in-game content")? Hasn't been always done like this when tech tree branches were changed?

 

Well done, another soviet-made scam. Leaving this bullshayt soviet excuse for a game, this time for good. So long, soviets!!!

If any of CC told you that, he was mistaken, because this was never said or announced by us.

Also, when was the last time we turned any tech tree ship into a premium/special?

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Just now, YabbaCoe said:

So those principles were for American Cruisers split.

They are either principles or a one time ruleset. They can not be both.

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I just realised it's not a Tier10/game economy thing - I don't even have the T5 ship anymore and have to reasearch that ship too!!!!?? Despite having the T6 alreay - WTAF.

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3 minutes ago, scutty_ said:

I just realised it's not a Tier10/game economy thing - I don't even have the T5 ship anymore and have to reasearch that ship too!!!!?? Despite having the T6 alreay - WTAF.

You still have the Kirov in port. You newer researched the Kotovsky before...

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Před 5 minutami Egoleter řekl/a:

They are either principles or a one time ruleset. They can not be both.

so in your example, it was one time ruleset.. simply the article you mentioned was talking about how replacement of US cruisers will happen. There is not a mention, that those rules applies generally for any upcoming changes in tech tree.

 

Před 7 minutami scutty_ řekl/a:

I just realised it's not a Tier10/game economy thing - I don't even have the T5 ship anymore and have to reasearch that ship too!!!!?? Despite having the T6 alreay - WTAF.

We explained this in articles, that the same rules applies for Moskva and also for Kirov. For example: I had Chapayev from previous arcs, so I finished Moskva and in meantime I played Bogatyr and Svietlana to have the Kirov too. After that I just reseted the line, as I knew I will be grinding this line towards tier X again.

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11 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

So those principles were for American Cruisers split. Those are not guidelines for any Ship replacement. But still we can say, that the main principle stays the same: Players will not lose anything.

 

And even now, players haven't lost anything. Their ship, that used to be a TX silver ship got even better, so their gained from this. Why those players were playing Moskva, for economics values? If yes, now they will profit much more. For its gameplay, well this stayed the same.

 

Still as I mentioned this changes in tech tree are different than the ones happened before.

 

If any of CC told you that, he was mistaken, because this was never said or announced by us.

Also, when was the last time we turned any tech tree ship into a premium/special?

 

Pffff, you still won't get my money, bye!!!

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1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

so in your example, it was one time ruleset..

Then please don't call such things principles again in the future. The statement as such was clear and made no mention of it being valid for the US-cruiser split only. And it set a precedence when it was applied to the next split as well.

 

Anyway... like I said: I am not really effected by this.

That you deny the loss, that you don't even really understand how your players feel about it, all this is a lack of empathy by Wargaming for their players. That was very different in the past. Before the move to Prague.

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Yay I got my premium Kirov got 3 million credits for the :etc_swear: thing. Mikoyan's already added to the credit fund. Thank's WG

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8 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

And even now, players haven't lost anything.

 

Oh really? I have lost 240k XP to grind through this "lost" hours of gameplay as now I'm somehow forced to grind... again... the same shayt tier IX. But I won't, have enough of this and the way you designed it. So once again: wave goodbye to my money (and I spent a lot of them throughout few years), I hope many will do the same, as all we know: "spreadsheets will pay your salaries".

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12 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

why? Now on both ships you can place any of your captains without the need to retrain them, also their battle maintenance is cut in half and they both do have a permacamo...

Every Premium or special Ship has a permacamo per definitionem. Its not like in WoT...

So you moved the permacamo (bought for economic reasons for a silver T10) to a Special Ship which already has a permacamo. 

If you expect that I "replace" the permacamo on the new T10 (or buy any other permacamo now or even advise other players to do so), you are mistaken. 

Therefore, WoWs missed the sale of another Ochakov (why should I  need the permacamo for Newsky), as well as starter package for Shipyard or any investment in rng boxes for new lines.

 

It's a mystery for me, why you pissed a large part of the paying customers... Eastern economics, mayhaps. Worked als well for the SU... :fish_palm:

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On 6/11/2020 at 2:30 PM, YabbaCoe said:

And even now, players haven't lost anything. Their ship, that used to be a TX silver ship got even better, so their gained from this. Why those players were playing Moskva, for economics values? If yes, now they will profit much more. For its gameplay, well this stayed the same.


Haven't lost anything huh? Just 5000 doubloons since the Moskva now comes with premium camo for free.
Imagine being the idiot that used doubloons to buy free exp in order to buy the Moskva. Yeah you're looking at him.

(I got my Moskva long before all this was announced)

 

Next time I'd like to get kissed before i get f****d.

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Dear Wargaming...

 

Please refund me my gold for the camouflage on the Moskva, or remove the Moskva from the game entirely. Then you can give us players the Al. Nevsky fully decked out and with the camouflage etc we had on the Moskva. I have no intention of buying tier 4 and 9 ship just to regrind a ship just cause you felt the need to change something...

 

You put in the Moskva as a Tier 10 ship, purchased a camouflage for it, was it 5000 gold, this is now utterly worthless.... Please refund the money spent or move the changes to the new ship so i can actually have a complete russian cruiser line again.

 

Why do you always have to make up shitty ways of pissing off you paying customers. Please move all the modules, captain and camouflage from my Moskva and move it to the new Al. Newsky and delete the Moskva from my harbor, and see if anyone will ever buy that thing for coal or whatver little scheme you have to rip of player base next time.....

 

 

Csc75

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