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xZExPISCOx

Can someone explain a few gameplay machanics?

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[VTSPT]
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Hello,

 

I have been playing for a while now and there are some gameplay mechanics that i still don't fully understand:

 

- Spotting, why when you spot a ship after a few seconds it dissipates into thin air why? You or someone spot a BB like 20km away, why doesn't it remain spotted? I understand if he goes behind an island or inside a smoke screen you can't ser it but vanishing in front of your eyes is a bit much, so you see it and then you don't, like you're hallucinating.

 

- Smoke, why ships inside a smoke screen can see other ships? I know if someone else spot an enemy ship, the teammates inside the smoke can also see them. How this is even logic? The ships inside the smoke magically see the other ships, i always thought smoke was used like a diversion to escape from difficult situations apparently not, it's only used to spam HE shells.

 

- Desync, this is a game played at most by 24 players, why is desync so bad sometimes, i have hit citadels without any shells hitting (visually) the enemy ship and sometimes hitting clear citadels and do as little as 1.2k damage sometimes no damage, in some other games it is possible to see the players ping either by bars or by colored spots, has this been discussions before? Maybe just changing the player name color, red for bad ping, yellow decent and green good or some other system that will allow us to know how to compensate the aiming lead according to the ping.

 

- Dispersion and damage, i wonder if dispersion and damage are completely RNG based, it has happened to me a few times shooting at a stranded ship full broadside at less than 15km and doing almost no damage, it can't be desync because the ship is fully stopped and not moving in any direction, i was fighting a Nagato in a Sinop, the guy got stuck in an island and i managed to be at a 90 degree angle related to his broadside, shot the 2 bow turrets and it was a beautiful compact salvo, all 6 shells hit him where the citadel shoud be and then boom 1.2k damage, it is the first time i said out loud "this game is trash", just a few games before i had hit 3 citadels on the same salvo to a Nagato but playing the Izmail and he was moving, if it was not 40k damage it was close. 

Dispersion at close range seems to be a bit much, failing to hit a single shell aiming at a cruiser kamikazing you full bow is not uncommon, then at the last moment they turn and torp you. What's the point of aiming then?

 

That is all for now, have a good day

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[MIAU]
[MIAU]
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May I suggest to you the "How it Works" video series for this game?

They will explain a lot to you. If after that you still have questions, feel free to ask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2edhDQ7F3CI&list=PLVmXzlhZvJVSo3LA0O0ccjHRxxv-Qzchb

 

Desync is activly being worked on. If you have extreme cases, please contact support with a WGCheck result and the replay of the match it occured in.

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[BAD-F]
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1. There is such a thing as bloom. When you shoot your main guns your concealment gets much worse. It last 20 seconds if you are within Line of Sight of other vessel. So BBs will normally been seen for 20 seconds after each shot. As they have 30 seconds reload, they will disappear for another 10 seconds.

2. Ships see all that is in they render range if it is seen by anyone teammate. It is just like that. It is concept of this game. It does not matter if you are hidden behind island or inside of smoke you all share vision. It is computer game, logic has nothing to do here.

3. That is up to individual. It was talked and noted by WG we do not know if and when they do something with desync. You want to run pingplotter to be sure on your end everything is fine.

4. There is such a thing as overpenetration. When shell is fast enough to enter and leave the ship before detonating. Each ship has different dispersion. Dispersion of BBs on low tiers is trash and you can hit a DD only by miracle. It is supposed to be a team game, so other DDs or cruisers should handle DD. Later you can reliably hit on low distances.

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[CATS]
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38 minutes ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:
  1. - Spotting, why when you spot a ship after a few seconds it dissipates into thin air why? You or someone spot a BB like 20km away, why doesn't it remain spotted? I understand if he goes behind an island or inside a smoke screen you can't ser it but vanishing in front of your eyes is a bit much, so you see it and then you don't, like you're hallucinating.
  2. - Smoke, why ships inside a smoke screen can see other ships? I know if someone else spot an enemy ship, the teammates inside the smoke can also see them. How this is even logic? The ships inside the smoke magically see the other ships, i always thought smoke was used like a diversion to escape from difficult situations apparently not, it's only used to spam HE shells.
  3. - Desync, this is a game played at most by 24 players, why is desync so bad sometimes, i have hit citadels without any shells hitting (visually) the enemy ship and sometimes hitting clear citadels and do as little as 1.2k damage sometimes no damage, in some other games it is possible to see the players ping either by bars or by colored spots, has this been discussions before? Maybe just changing the player name color, red for bad ping, yellow decent and green good or some other system that will allow us to know how to compensate the aiming lead according to the ping.
  4. - Dispersion and damage, i wonder if dispersion and damage are completely RNG based, it has happened to me a few times shooting at a stranded ship full broadside at less than 15km and doing almost no damage, it can't be desync because the ship is fully stopped and not moving in any direction, i was fighting a Nagato in a Sinop, the guy got stuck in an island and i managed to be at a 90 degree angle related to his broadside, shot the 2 bow turrets and it was a beautiful compact salvo, all 6 shells hit him where the citadel shoud be and then boom 1.2k damage, it is the first time i said out loud "this game is trash", just a few games before i had hit 3 citadels on the same salvo to a Nagato but playing the Izmail and he was moving, if it was not 40k damage it was close. 
  5. Dispersion at close range seems to be a bit much, failing to hit a single shell aiming at a cruiser kamikazing you full bow is not uncommon, then at the last moment they turn and torp you. What's the point of aiming then?
  1. Ships have a concealment range. When you are outside that concealment range, you cannot see a ship. When the ship shoots, the concealment range increases for 20s and you might see the ship. When it goes back to the old value, you do not see it anymore. The same applies when a friendly spots an enemy for you, that you cannot see. When the friendly gets sunk or is behind cover, he cannot spot the enemy for you and you do not see it anymore. Please read the wiki about spotting.
  2. They usually cannot see outside smoke. They need a spotter. The same applies when you see a ship behind an island. Without that mechanic ships would see much less targets and most of the battles would be blind.
  3. Desync can be a server or a player issue.
  4. Dispersion is RNG, damage is not. Damage depends on where you hit. Where you hit depends on RNG and your aim.
  5. Dispersion is relativly increased at close ranges, otherwise the game would be too deadly.
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1) This is due to how bigworld (Bugworld) works, each ship has 20secs to not fire before they go back to their base concealment, also if no ship is within their concealment value so for example say like a bb has 12km concealment and the dd was 12.5km the dd cant spot the bb but as soon as it gets to say 11.9km then miss bb is spotted forever untill she gets into cover (islands) or dd gets into cover or dies. Also because its an arcade game.

 

2) They can't unless they have radar, hydro (and hydro ranges from 4-6km so again wont spot anything far out and is used for torps). Also other ships will be spotting said ships, you need to learn to position and to look at your minimap more.

 

3) Weegee has known about this for 5 years and doesnt really care, eitherway they said it would take a lot of time and resource to fix the problem (whether thats true i don't know) but world of tanks gets the better share of the server due to it having a bigger playerbase and generating more revenue).

 

4) No they aren't but RNG does play a good role in it, sigma, max dispersion values tell you how accurate a ship will be, what the game doesnt show is the vertical and horizontal dispersions and also the other effects that are present in the game that slow down shells make the go wide etc (hurr durr would be too complex for players to put into port). Depends where the shells hit, how big they are, angle of your ship and theirs and distance as well.

 

I would watch flamu, ichase, notser, flambass, toptier, and go on the wiki.

 

Hope this helps.

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[VTSPT]
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Thank you all for the replies, i should have noted in the OP that i know how the spotting and smoke mechanics work, but why did they decided this was a good idea? 

I have never played other wargames games so maybe it's similar in the other games and that explains a lot. 

 

I understand the concealment principle but to me once you're spotted you're spotted unless you hide. Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision, the logic to me would be making the spotted ships appear on the map for everyone but only visible ingame for those who are not in the smoke.

Someone already said this is an arcade game and it enough of a reason to make the game like this.

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[VTSPT]
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Thank you all for the replies, i should have noted in the OP that i know how the spotting and smoke mechanics work, but why did they decided this was a good idea? 

I have never played other wargames games so maybe it's similar in the other games and that explains a lot. 

 

I understand the concealment principle but to me once you're spotted you're spotted unless you hide. Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision, the logic to me would be making the spotted ships appear on the map for everyone but only visible ingame for those who are not in the smoke.

Someone already said this is an arcade game and it enough of a reason to make the game like this.

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[CATS]
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11 minutes ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:

Thank you all for the replies, i should have noted in the OP that i know how the spotting and smoke mechanics work, but why did they decided this was a good idea? 

I have never played other wargames games so maybe it's similar in the other games and that explains a lot. 

 

I understand the concealment principle but to me once you're spotted you're spotted unless you hide. Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision, the logic to me would be making the spotted ships appear on the map for everyone but only visible ingame for those who are not in the smoke.

Someone already said this is an arcade game and it enough of a reason to make the game like this.

Fog of War is one of the basics of military games. The rules may differ a bit, but most military games use it.

You see stuff under certain conditions. When the conditions are not met, you do not see stuff.

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49 minutes ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:

Thank you all for the replies, i should have noted in the OP that i know how the spotting and smoke mechanics work, but why did they decided this was a good idea? 

I have never played other wargames games so maybe it's similar in the other games and that explains a lot. 

 

I understand the concealment principle but to me once you're spotted you're spotted unless you hide. Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision, the logic to me would be making the spotted ships appear on the map for everyone but only visible ingame for those who are not in the smoke.

Someone already said this is an arcade game and it enough of a reason to make the game like this.

arcade + balance + variety. To put it simply you cant have a game simulation of naval battles, because in most cases the battles were never fair, the length of engagement is way to long, the differential in ship technology and system is huge per nation, the distance of engagement + the actual hit rate would make a very slow paces and boring game

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[SM0KE]
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1 hour ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:

Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision

The way I rationalise this (FWIW) is that the things that get rendered on your main screen are not necessarily only things that - should they be present - chaps with binoculars, say, could see from the highest point of the ship.

 

Rather, I think in terms of them being stuff that the collective entity that your ship represents has a reasonably solid fix on; this can include direct visual spotting, locations communicated from other ships/planes via radio/signals, and stuff detected with means such as radar/hydro.

 

Clearly, in 'real life' a ship spotted on radar, say, doesn't magically appear out of the window, but 'the ship' collective will know where it is to within a couple of metres (or whatever the relevant precision of radar is). What we see in game is a visual representation of that which facilitates decent gameplay.

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*khm* everyone managed to miss something for #2

  • Ships have smoke firing detection range
  • The game doesn’t care if you’re inside the smoke or outside of it, what matters is just that there is some smoke between you and the ship spotting you
  • This range means that as long as they’re no further than said distance away from you that smoke effectively is “seethrough” when you fire your main guns
  • This can lead to annoying situations like a CL sitting in his own smoke stealth-firing at a CA / BB outside of the smoke, but if that CA / BB fires back he gets spotted through it

Why? Because wargaming. Also probably to avoid easy workarounds for smoke firing penalty if this wasn’t the case.

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[THESO]
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4 hours ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:

nderstand the concealment principle but to me once you're spotted you're spotted unless you hide. Same to smoke, i can't see you, you can't see me, unless you have thermal vision, the logic to me would be making the spotted ships appear on the map for everyone but only visible ingame for those who are not in the smoke.

Someone already said this is an arcade game and it enough of a reason to make the game like this.

This mechanics is in the game. Cyclones.

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9 hours ago, xJ03xR081Nx said:

Desync, this is a game played at most by 24 players

EEE what? It's about 17-30k people daily and you share the server with WoT too. 

 

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