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Hammirabi

Balance?

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I'm starting to wonder more and more what is happening to the balance in this game. There are fewer and fewer battles which are fun and engaging. In 80% of the games, half of one team gets deleted quite early, and the rest of the battle is about dragging out the result that everybody knows about anyhow.

 

This imbalance appears to contribute to players playing more and more defensively, so that they don't get deleted early. In more than half the games I'm playing, people flee their spawn right at the beginning. And then the majority camps behind rocks, waiting for the time to pass by and a lucky shot. And it feels that, because of this, the outcome of random battles is more and more determined by luck than by anything else.

 

Not sure what's wrong, but I hope it will be fixed.

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1 minute ago, Hammirabi said:

Not sure what's wrong, but I hope it will be fixed.

The only ones that can "fix" this are we the players.

 

If more players hide/camp then that puts more pressure on those that doesn't and they can't carry it and die and then the campers die, alone.

 

When will players realize that this isn't CS:GO or PUBG and hiding/taking cover won't help either you or your team in the long run. Plus, it's a boring way to play. In WoWs you have to be active and take risks if you want to win. Playing safe = not pulling your weight.

 

This is the kind of game that relies on the players to make it fun. A single player game has a plot that move the action forward. Here, it's us the players that have to make that "plot" for ourselves. We have to ask "What kind of game do we want?" and then act accordingly. If we want a active game, then we must play in an active way.

 

Sure, WG has made some dubious decisions in the past but we can't put all the blame on them. We are a part of this game too.

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Usually all depends on who has less potatoes as those will die quickly or they will camp and run away useless. Then either it will be quick and obvious from the beginning or it will take a few minutes longer when seemingly nice battle between equal teams will suddenly turn into landslide in 8-10th not in 3-5th minute. Depends how long it will take for one or even both flanks to collapse.

I am afraid it is now beyond repair and even I dare to say that developer likes this situation as people will burn faster with lesser rewards through resources like flags and camos and those have a potential to bring in revenue.

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25 minutes ago, Hammirabi said:

I'm starting to wonder more and more what is happening to the balance in this game. There are fewer and fewer battles which are fun and engaging. In 80% of the games, half of one team gets deleted quite early, and the rest of the battle is about dragging out the result that everybody knows about anyhow.

 

This imbalance appears to contribute to players playing more and more defensively, so that they don't get deleted early. In more than half the games I'm playing, people flee their spawn right at the beginning. And then the majority camps behind rocks, waiting for the time to pass by and a lucky shot. And it feels that, because of this, the outcome of random battles is more and more determined by luck than by anything else.

 

Not sure what's wrong, but I hope it will be fixed.

Reminds me of the last Narai OP I did 2 days ago, both NPC (our and enemy) started reversing at the beginning of the OP ... looks like not only human players are affected by this meta shift ...

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24 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

The only ones that can "fix" this are we the players.

 

If more players hide/camp then that puts more pressure on those that doesn't and they can't carry it and die and then the campers die, alone.

I know what you're saying. And I'm not sure that this is it. I just lost the 8th game in a row today. This time, we had the usual DD loaded but not playing at the start, who after 3 mins decided to suicide. Our Ibuki then killed our second DD, and from then the game went down the drain with no caps. If it was the players, potatoes should be distributed evenly amongst the teams. But it appears that they are much more often aggregated in one team.

 

25 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

I am afraid it is now beyond repair and even I dare to say that developer likes this situation as people will burn faster with lesser rewards through resources like flags and camos and those have a potential to bring in revenue.

Well, only speaking for myself, of course, but I'm not tempted to spend any money on a game that is no fun anymore. And I don't have any facts, but I don't think that there is a load of new players coming in that will compensate for those that might be leaving.

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17 minutes ago, Hammirabi said:

I know what you're saying. And I'm not sure that this is it. I just lost the 8th game in a row today. This time, we had the usual DD loaded but not playing at the start, who after 3 mins decided to suicide. Our Ibuki then killed our second DD, and from then the game went down the drain with no caps. If it was the players, potatoes should be distributed evenly amongst the teams. But it appears that they are much more often aggregated in one team.

 

Well, only speaking for myself, of course, but I'm not tempted to spend any money on a game that is no fun anymore. And I don't have any facts, but I don't think that there is a load of new players coming in that will compensate for those that might be leaving.

There are and those are main scam targets:cap_haloween:.

I doubt if I will put any more of my money ever in this game, I have flags, camos, premiums, lots of TX ships, elite xp to retrain captain etc, new players are caught into this grind, grind , grind fast to ultimate gameplay -TX mentality and will spend money to speed up things as it's hard to do it without resources like premiums, flags, option to retrain captains, credits etc without premium time at least for a new starter without skill and experience.

Especially in a age of an instant gratification, with people having more cash then time, they will pay rather then play.

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18 minutes ago, Hammirabi said:

I know what you're saying. And I'm not sure that this is it. I just lost the 8th game in a row today. This time, we had the usual DD loaded but not playing at the start, who after 3 mins decided to suicide. Our Ibuki then killed our second DD, and from then the game went down the drain with no caps. If it was the players, potatoes should be distributed evenly amongst the teams. But it appears that they are much more often aggregated in one team.

Then comes the next question: Who is a potatoe? Who decides that? How do we know what a player's gonna do the next game? If you have one bad game, does that mean that you are listed as "potatoe" in the next or should your "potatoe-status" reflect your overall results and in that case should  bad stats in CV decide if you are a "potatoe" when you play your DDs? And it's just not that! If there is a unicum on the team, how do we "fix" so that unicum won't spawn agains "potatoes" and kill them all? How do we "rig" the set up so that everything is balanced when every action taken after the game starts is beyond the control of WG? What happens in the game is controlled by us the players and no one else.

 

Both your examples show player behavior and why do we expect WG to "do something about that"? And ask yourself this: What did I do to help my team? That DD that "suicided", how much help did he get from the team? Perhaps he got tired of waiting for his team to move up and do something that he just said "F' it!" and went for it. I've seen too many games where everybody just hangs back waiting for someone else to "do something". Often ending up with the chatt screaming at the DDs for not risking thier lives so others can stay safe. If "someone" should do something, why not you? If everybody had that mind set then this problem wouldn't exist. Everyone would be active and the game would be sooo much more fun.

 

I have some "ground rules" when I play like:

* When in doubt, attack!

* It's better to act than to react.

* It's the guy up front that makes the decisions, if I'm not up front then my job is to help him.

* It doesn't matter if you live or die. All that matters is the results you get.

* "You shouldn't worry about your flank, it's the enemy that should worry about his." (George S. Patton)

 

I stopped playing randoms a long time ago because it's the players that cant handle the game, not the other way around. Players have ruined the game just a much as the developers. We can't blame the manufacturer when the customers use the product the "wrong" way.

 

We should stop getting worked up about what WG "should" do and start looking at what WE can do. If enough players do it, then that will be the norm and the meta, but someone has to start and take the lead. Why not you?

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WG can't fix no logic players that "have no time to see how to play their ships" cause they want to get their daily container for coal to buy their coal ship and also to play it bad cause another coal ship is released.... Snowball effect. 

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wg could stop some of the camping by removing some of the pointy things in the water , some maps there are far to many pointy things , another way could be in beta only had the map a few times are you sitting down the had  NO POINTY THINGS , this was really good as no one could camp and the team split in 2 and hugged the borders.

 

another one now is have it skill based and not mm ,but then half the good players would become tomatoes so cant see that happening , even though the game is skill based , if you put players in skill brackets then you have more balanced games.

 

another one is get good players and wg staff and the cc, to all make clans and everyone has to join a clan ,it then help the game be far more productive ,and new players could learn from the outset by expericenced players . like eve university in eve online , then you have better player retention , more happy players who would have more fun and more fun means more cash for wg .

 

 

wish you all well

 

bob

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hanse77SWE said:

I have some "ground rules" when I play like:

* When in doubt, attack!

* It's better to act than to react.

* It's the guy up front that makes the decisions, if I'm not up front then my job is to help him.

* It doesn't matter if you live or die. All that matters is the results you get.

* "You shouldn't worry about your flank, it's the enemy that should worry about his." (George S. Patton)

 

I stopped playing randoms a long time ago because it's the players that cant handle the game, not the other way around. Players have ruined the game just a much as the developers. We can't blame the manufacturer when the customers use the product the "wrong" way.

 

We should stop getting worked up about what WG "should" do and start looking at what WE can do. If enough players do it, then that will be the norm and the meta, but someone has to start and take the lead. Why not you?

When I read your ground rules, I thought that I'd like to play randoms with people like you (with the only point I'm missing would be "play to your ship's strenghts"). Then I read that you've quit playing randoms, and I figured that this may contribute to my experience, if a lot of these players think the same way.

 

Still, it was different in "earlier days" (am playing since 2011, iirc). If many better players turn their back on randoms frustratedly, there must be something in the game that has triggered this. I still am playing randoms, and I try to give hints to my team in the chat (politely, not in rants - which becomes increasingly difficult). But I'm pretty sure that individual actions won't change the player base.

 

Tweaking the XP system might help, though. That AFK-then-suicide Shima still came in with ok 559 XP for 2 mins of gameplay. FDG sailing the map border and sniping throughout the game also was rewarded with almost 500. And XP is something everybody sees and feels - so that might be an angle!

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i would put it down to how over time offence has increased in effectiveness and defence has become less and less use. now a days armour on a BB and yes this is a bit hyberbolic but its also true in some fights is actually just a negative it makes you slow and as its made of gas soaked rags and bolsa wood it burns as well as anything.

 

poke your nose out and nowadays there is a bunch of ships with the range to hit you , the accuracy on thier guns to land those hits and high fire chance /unique pen rules and you just get blapped or at least the error you need to make in order to have it happen is jut so small its just not worth taking the risk

 

theres also the issue of getting yourself into position to overpen the citadel scoring a few k damage when you could of sat 25 km spammed HE from safety and done more damage, yes because im bad well so are most players apparently

 

then the game only rewards you for using your team as a shield it doesnt reward you for shielding your team

 

add it all up and its no great mystery why gampelay is getting soo boring and worse and worse as you go up the tiers.

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3 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

We can't blame the manufacturer when the customers use the product the "wrong" way.

True, but then if a use of a product is quite sophisticated and manufacturer does not provide any, or even worse, it does provide misleading (some tips and class descriptions) instructions then IRL lawyers would make company go boom in a no time.:cap_haloween:

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5 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Usually all depends on who has less potatoes as those will die quickly or they will camp and run away useless. Then either it will be quick and obvious from the beginning or it will take a few minutes longer when seemingly nice battle between equal teams will suddenly turn into landslide in 8-10th not in 3-5th minute. Depends how long it will take for one or even both flanks to collapse.

I am afraid it is now beyond repair and even I dare to say that developer likes this situation as people will burn faster with lesser rewards through resources like flags and camos and those have a potential to bring in revenue.

 

Thats the point

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12 minutes ago, BielayaSmert said:

 

Thats the point

Tin foil on (or really with all MM patents WG has?):

Now, the next logic step would be assumption that they will rig MM to assembly those games with unequal by skill teams at the same time setting for individual players serial lost or serial won quick games, killing two birds with one stone. First archiving higher chances of short games, second by serial loses or wins people will be subjected to changing psychological conditions of satisfaction and frustrations with a hope that one of those two will finally work and make them spend money.

That is assuming that they have enought of a good players to put them in one team, something clearly recently being in a shortage.:cap_haloween:

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Dumbing down norespawn game > influx of less invested players > more roflstomps

This meta and gameplay is WG's own making.

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3 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Dumbing down norespawn game

If War Thunder is any indication, adding respawns would only lead to nice and cozy spawnkilling because teams fold as usual:cap_popcorn:

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14 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

True, but then if a use of a product is quite sophisticated and manufacturer does not provide any, or even worse, it does provide misleading (some tips and class descriptions) instructions then IRL lawyers would make company go boom in a no time.:cap_haloween:

A part of the game is figure out how to play it, especially when we play agains other people. Many of us have succeeded. Why do some fail?

1 hour ago, Hammirabi said:

with the only point I'm missing would be "play to your ship's strenghts"

I rather have the rule to adapt to the situation, no matter if it suits my ship or not.

2 hours ago, Hammirabi said:

Still, it was different in "earlier days" (am playing since 2011, iirc). If many better players turn their back on randoms frustratedly, there must be something in the game that has triggered this. I still am playing randoms, and I try to give hints to my team in the chat (politely, not in rants - which becomes increasingly difficult). But I'm pretty sure that individual actions won't change the player base.

The game went live in 2015. The problem is part the lack of a propper tutorial but also a huge influx of players with no prior knowledge of naval hisory of warfare at all for that matter. When the game was new most of us who played were either very dedicated gamers or history nerds. We understood how ships and battles work and implemented that to the game.

Any lagre group consists of induviduals and if enough understand and change then we can have an influence on others. Sadly, the number of pure "potatoes" are huge but it's better to try than give up and if I'm not ready to work for a change, then why should anyone else? Same as in the game, right?

2 hours ago, Hammirabi said:

Tweaking the XP system might help, though. That AFK-then-suicide Shima still came in with ok 559 XP for 2 mins of gameplay. FDG sailing the map border and sniping throughout the game also was rewarded with almost 500. And XP is something everybody sees and feels - so that might be an angle!

I see this all the time. I die after 2-3 minutes but still end up top 3 in the list. Then the question's rather: "If they got that much XP, how bad were the rest of the team?" Obviously they did something right otherwise they woudn't have gotten that much.

 

There are some things in the game that gives XP:

 

* Winning

* Doing damage

* Capping

* Spotting

* Tanking

 

Staying alive doesn't. They guy who dies after five minutes but kills 2 DD's in that time have done more than the guy sitting behind an Island taking the last five kills. The first guys actions is the reason the scond guys could get those five kills. How do we set up a XP-system that keeps track of that? Who decides what? And on top of that, many players don't care about how much they earn, it's all about the experiense of the match. They won't even notice if they earn less.

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2 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Tin foil on (or really with all MM patents WG has?):

Now, the next logic step would be assumption that they will rig MM to assembly those games with unequal by skill teams at the same time setting for individual players serial lost or serial won quick games, killing two birds with one stone. First archiving higher chances of short games, second by serial loses or wins people will be subjected to changing psychological conditions of satisfaction and frustrations with a hope that one of those two will finally work and make them spend money.

That is assuming that they have enought of a good players to put them in one team, something clearly recently being in a shortage.:cap_haloween:

 

... and please dont forget the speshul RNG

 

Like every company dedicated to multiplayer online games, WG knows that more frustration = more $$$. They have our data and they have all the power to make they want to do.

 

And if someone says something awkward...

Step 1 - Ignore them

Step 2 - Send fanboys to deny it to the absurd: Confirmation bias, RNG, tinfoil, git gud...

Step 3 - Gulag/Ban

 

Soviet style

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8 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

The only ones that can "fix" this are we the players.

 

8 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Reminds me of the last Narai OP

Whats wrong with this game are the players, like so many in Narai.

Why does 3 ships go after the transports? When one competent DD is enough?

Screw the Missiouri, Im heading towards the KING-CV via route where I cant shoot anything.

BBs camping and sniping outside the Harbor area.

 

Why do so many abandon the Primary Mission of escorting the own transport ships to harbor for 1 star secondary objectives (seen this on many operations).

People dont have no clue how to play certain ships or even ship types. This is made worse by giving a ton of booster camos and flags, so they will never learn on high tier games, cause they get one-shotted in the beginning or they hide the entire match.

And always, when they potato their ship beneath the waves its always "shitty team!".

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