Hamburg Dockyard: Directives Deadline Approaching!

[Peffers]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:26 PM, YabbaCoe said:

Why would you count a wage to number of hours spent playing a game (unless you are paid for playing the game)? Or you are trying to calculate the economic model of customer dilemma to either work to get money or spend free time, based on the value you theoretically would be able to get, if you decide to exchange your free time spend playing the game for hours spend working?

I expect I need to be careful having got into trouble previously for explaining business models and business terms (apparently it is political)  BUT I take it WG has never heard of the term "Opportunity Cost"?  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

 

[deathsadow]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:18 PM, Peffers said:

I expect I need to be careful having got into trouble previously for explaining business models and business terms (apparently it is political)  BUT I take it WG has never heard of the term "Opportunity Cost"?  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

 

As long as half the community is willing to throw 40-50 EUR at WG whenever they put something in the shop, it is a valid and profitable business. 

 

As for the no-refund or exchange for the Moskva 5000 doublon camo & no refund for the Graf Spee, i guess WG lost more than what they have gained with it... yeah some player will pay regardless , but they had a bad hit on their already bad reputation.

 

@YabbaCoe Is this credit refund for duplicate premiums a one time exception for the Dockyard 2.0 or is it the new WG policy on duplicate premiums ?

[YabbaCoe]

Před 8 minutami deathsadow řekl/a:

As long as half the community is willing to throw 40-50 EUR at WG whenever they put something in the shop, it is a valid and profitable business. 

 

As for the no-refund or exchange for the Moskva 5000 doublon camo & no refund for the Graf Spee, i guess WG lost more than what they have gained with it... yeah some player will pay regardless , but they had a bad hit on their already bad reputation.

 

@YabbaCoe Is this credit refund for duplicate premiums a one time exception for the Dockyard 2.0 or is it the new WG policy on duplicate premiums ?

It is exceptional way. This time it is kinda the similar way, how ARP ships were handled. Plenty of players could receive those ships for free, so when we were running ARP event last time, once players received the same ship for second time, they got credits compensation. Graf Spee has been also a reward of a marathon and plenty players got their hands on it this way, so that is why we decided to put credits compensation.

[deathsadow]

19 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

It is exceptional way. This time it is kinda the similar way, how ARP ships were handled. Plenty of players could receive those ships for free, so when we were running ARP event last time, once players received the same ship for second time, they got credits compensation. Graf Spee has been also a reward of a marathon and plenty players got their hands on it this way, so that is why we decided to put credits compensation.

 

Oksa, that sounds reasonable, as Graf Spee was a Xmas reward if im correct, maybe as a side note, coal would be a far more fitting compensation for cases like this, i bet a lot of players would gladly take the coal placeholder from the PTS over the credit compensation.

[YabbaCoe]

Před 12 minutami deathsadow řekl/a:

 

Oksa, that sounds reasonable, as Graf Spee was a Xmas reward if im correct, maybe as a side note, coal would be a far more fitting compensation for cases like this, i bet a lot of players would gladly take the coal placeholder from the PTS over the credit compensation.

I understand, but on PT this Coal placeholder was for everybody instead of Graf Spee, basically to test the crediting. Unfortunately with the compensation we are currently quite limited as it can be credits or doubloons, nothing else.

[maragotu]

I only would say that:

Not all people will realize that only can obtain Odin, by paying money for doublons or doublons.

For those who know how WG work, is not a problem. I know what I can expect, and after some years playing WG games

I think I ´m closer about MM works and so, to obtain more benefits from players. Sorry I wrote players..., I really meant clients.

And as a client you are free to buy whatever you want.

 

Thant´s only my opinion, but is a close opinion to other mates´s opinion. Remember this is only business for WG.

And with than post, I know I will suffer a horrible MM for the next days. But I do not care. I had had that in account since WG realized I would not spend money in their games.

See you in game folks

 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

I find this one quite misleading:

 

 

Turns out only direct damage by shells is counted here, NOT damage by fires.

Isn't damage caused by fires still damage caused by the main battery? The HE shells hit the ship, they set fires. No HE shells, no fire damage. Cause and effect. Ring a bell?

 

I just had a decent battle with 129k dmg and still this mission is open. Are we supposed to demount fire signals and refrain from using torpedos?

I hate these missions that demand playing the ship inefficiently. Wargaming is sabotaging battles by giving incentives to fulfil some stupid mission rather than win the game.

Just a few battles earlier I had a guy obviously stuck in the 3rd directive asking if someone would volunteer for a secondary duel, since he needed the 180 secondary battery hits to complete the mission. Guess how optimally he used his main guns.

[Egoleter]

14 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Isn't damage caused by fires still damage caused by the main battery?

Fires can also be started by secondaries. Fire has it's own category in the details tab after a battle, just like torps and floodings, bombs, rockets ... essentially every single source of damage is listed seperatly. If a mission would ask for fire damage, it would state fire damage.

 

Any damage that is not directly caused by the shells does not count. It never did. The wording on that mission is not different from those in the past that demanded the same.

 

I do not see how this is misleading.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

59 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Fires can also be started by secondaries. Fire has it's own category in the details tab after a battle, just like torps and floodings, bombs, rockets ... essentially every single source of damage is listed seperatly. If a mission would ask for fire damage, it would state fire damage.

 

Any damage that is not directly caused by the shells does not count. It never did. The wording on that mission is not different from those in the past that demanded the same.

 

I do not see how this is misleading.

 

It's not my idea, that fires set by secondaries are not registered separately from fires by main guns. If I shatter all my DD-shells on a BB and I burn it down, that damage is still caused by the shells of the main battery. It is the design of an HE-shell that it is supposed to cause fire damage. Otherwise shooting your main guns with a Friesland at a Kremlin would be pretty pointless. I just find it misleading. I didn't say it must be misleading to everybody.

 

And besides that it is a stupid mission design. The mission aims at you fighting against yourself, not the enemy. You fight against your own fires stealing damage that cannot be done be direct shell impact and you fight against your need to torpedo a target that is in torpedo range. What is the purpose of a mission that goes against the instinct of winning a battle?

[Egoleter]

1 hour ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

It's not my idea, that fires set by secondaries are not registered separately from fires by main guns. If I shatter all my DD-shells on a BB and I burn it down, that damage is still caused by the shells of the main battery. It is the design of an HE-shell that it is supposed to cause fire damage. Otherwise shooting your main guns with a Friesland at a Kremlin would be pretty pointless. I just find it misleading. I didn't say it must be misleading to everybody.

The damage of your shells is dealt by your shells. Fire damage is a secondary source of fire (not to be confused with secondory guns).

Your shells might cause the fire, but the fire causes the damage.

 

Direct cause and chain of causation are not the same. Else you could just as well argue that all damage is done by the mine that was digging up the iron, yet the mine never dealt any damage.

The chain would look like this: The fire damage is caused by the fire, the fire is caused by the granade, the gun fired the granade, the gun is mounted on the ship, the ships was build at the shipyard, the shipyard got its steel from the steelmill, the steelmill got its iron from the mine. Doesn't make any sense to say it's all the same and that the mine sank the ship, or does it?

[HMS_Kilinowski]

2 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

The damage of your shells is dealt by your shells. Fire damage is a secondary source of fire (not to be confused with secondory guns).

Your shells might cause the fire, but the fire causes the damage.

 

Direct cause and chain of causation are not the same. Else you could just as well argue that all damage is done by the mine that was digging up the iron, yet the mine never dealt any damage.

The chain would look like this: The fire damage is caused by the fire, the fire is caused by the granate, the gun fired the granate, the gun is mounted on the ship, the ships was build at the shipyard, the shipyard got its steel from the steelmill, the steelmill got its iron from the mine. Doesn't make any sense to say it's all the same and that the mine sank the ship, or does it?

If the mission said "Cause 70k damage with the ship made from steel from the iron from the mine" okay, whatever floats your boat. It still would be clear what to do.

If I would follow your logic, then I could argue that damage done by AP-shells is not done by the shell, just as fire damage is not done by HE. Instead the damage done by the AP is done by the hole created by the shells, that causes the ships systems to fail and the ship to take water. So then suddenly the direct damage doesn't count towards the mission. What's the point and why are you so eager to advocate that wording? I said I find it misleading. You can disagree but it's not going to change the fact I find it misleading and there is no superior logic in your interpretation of the wording.

[WWDragon]

It does say main battery, of course those directories are simply horse manure.

[Toivia]

Always seemed quite straightforward.

Now whether the actual requirement is a good idea is another question. Personally I don't quite like even class limitations on missions, even less so specific nation requirements or particular ships at worst.

 

Regardless though, the first 3 directives seemed to have enough missions to complete the directive just by mindless grind, not needing any particular battle results.

[The_White_Baron]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:41 AM, radius77 said:

What is your concern ?

 

165k dmg in a DD ?  C'mon, be serious. There is Shima, Kleber, Daing, Harugumo - all capable of doing it in a couple of tries.

 

2600 base exp isn't a wonder either. It's just a very good game, +200k dmg and a win. Des Moines, Salem, Smolensk, Thunderer, no problem.

 

I don't have any of those ships as I wasn't aware it was 'own all tiers of all nations' to get through the damned directives.

[The_White_Baron]

On 6/10/2020 at 4:21 PM, Hanse77SWE said:

All events are time-gated.

And they shouldn't be, as not everyone does this as a full-time job. 

[Hanse77SWE]

1 hour ago, The_White_Baron said:

And they shouldn't be, as not everyone does this as a full-time job. 

If events didn't have a timegate then we should have around 60 events active in the game right now, including five christmas-events. All things must come to an end, nothing lasts forever and it doesn't take 40 hours/week to do an event.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

14 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

If events didn't have a timegate then we should have around 60 events active in the game right now, including five christmas-events. All things must come to an end, nothing lasts forever and it doesn't take 40 hours/week to do an event.

 

For me and probably a lot of other players time gates only serve to stop us from completing the entire event in just one day or two. 

 

Especially with the covid restricted society we now find ourselves in which seems to be delicately poised to get better or worse.

[Hanse77SWE]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

For me and probably a lot of other players time gates only serve to stop us from completing the entire event in just one day or two. 

 

Especially with the covid restricted society we now find ourselves in which seems to be delicately poised to get better or worse.

Yeah, the new directive came yesterday and I got halfway (in co-op) in less than four hours. Then I felt "Wait, got to have something to do tomorrow."

[Sir_Sinksalot]

6 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Yeah, the new directive came yesterday and I got halfway (in co-op) in less than four hours. Then I felt "Wait, got to have something to do tomorrow."

It's true though, and I've also found myself enjoying these mixed bags of directive requirements. It's made me play ships, classes and tiers(both higher and also lower) that I would normally not bother with and tbh many of these ships have been great fun and I haven't found it grindy at all, at least not most of them. 

[Hanse77SWE]

43 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

It's true though, and I've also found myself enjoying these mixed bags of directive requirements. It's made me play ships, classes and tiers(both higher and also lower) that I would normally not bother with and tbh many of these ships have been great fun and I haven't found it grindy at all, at least not most of them. 

This is starting to get on my nerves, but this to shall pass. (This SS was taken yesterday.)

[Sir_Sinksalot]

31 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

This is starting to get on my nerves, but this to shall pass. (This SS was taken yesterday.)

 

Ouch, ya I actually ignored that path because it looked a bit too annoying, even with a 16 gun Lyon. Instead I went with the French Aigle for the DD torpedo dmg(basically just yolo and shotgun a BB or two lol), this also covered the "cap 5 times" mission, the spotting assist damage mission, the "be top 2 on team 10 times" so that was 4 completed right there at the same time and also found the cruiser missions really nice and fast "do X amount of citadels or incapacitate" which I actually did with a combination of my lessor played free premium Russian cruisers the T5 Kirov and Mikoyan which have big guns to flatten DD's for easy incapacitation and pop citadels on other cruisers easily enough too.

 

So the only possibly grindy ones I might find are the two unavoidable missions which is the captain xp and kill X amount of ships, and I am still currently grinding them but the missions I completed above have pretty much reduced both of these remaining missions to half pretty much and I haven't checked yet but I think today kick starts that tier7 Ops and this should be a really pain-free way to finish those two missions which thankfully can both be completed in Ops and I got a secondary build Gneiss I'm mad to try out and also a few other few T7 grinds on the burn so all good for now. 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Would we still need to pay money for the Odin even if we complete the entire set of directives? It looks 2 short after completion which would cost 3500 doubloons. 

[Hanse77SWE]

24 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Would we still need to pay money for the Odin even if we complete the entire set of directives? It looks 2 short after completion which would cost 3500 doubloons. 

That is correct! You need to pay 3 500 dub to get the Odin and 10 000 coal.

[TheWarJaC]

11 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Would we still need to pay money for the Odin even if we complete the entire set of directives? It looks 2 short after completion which would cost 3500 doubloons. 

Hi Captain, 

Yes, As also Hanse77SWE correctly stated, in order to get the Odin you have to purchase at least 2 shipbuilding phases for a total of 3500 doubloons.

 

[NobleRipper]

Got my Spee finally, job done; no more grinding for me!