Hey WG - Sub testing with teams of 8 bots and 4 humans per side is a waste of everyones time!

[IanH755]

@MrConway @Crysantos

 

I really am trying to help WG by playing the Sub mode everyday but even a single celled organism can tell that filling teams with so many Bots per match is an absolute waste for any kind of testing, other than "does the game crash when we fill it with 16 bots".

 

I know everyone is 'excited' (or was) to test Subs and the Sub queue is still over 100 strong, but without any incentive for human players to fill out the non-Sub ships then all you've ended up with is Co-Op with Subs added, which is virtually worthless to everyone as you get no human vs human interaction on which to base any of your results on as it's just human subs vs bots for the vast majority of the games. Plus you get no Class vs Class testing because Bot DD's/Cruisers can't drop depth charges and human subs far out-skill (or at least should do) bots who physically can't hurt them even if the ship is equipped with ways to do so (again, no depth charges dropped by AI).

 

There's another 3 whole weeks of "testing" left and it's already virtually worthless after 1 so unless WG do something drastic to increase human numbers, then the whole of this 4 weeks of testing will have been an utter waste of time and something WG could have done internally.

 

Will WG rise to the challenge and change anything to increase human numbers over the next few weeks or will WG do nothing and waste every opportunity given to them to do some real testing?

[Yedwy]

TBH I basically only play surface ships in that mode, I just want to puke when I see that 100+ sub number and think I might be waiting in it... I mean I did play few battles in subs but seriously...

[DFens_666]

Also one way to get the spreadsheet to say Subs are fine

[xxNihilanxx]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Also one way to get the spreadsheet to say Subs are fine

 

With comments like that you are just asking to have a nerve-agent sprayed onto your door handles...

[Hugh_Ruka]

Weren't the tokens supposed to fix that problem ? Jolly well done WG

[lossi_2018]

Bots do fine against subs, even better in SOME cases than humans. Human sub owner are either very good for ANYTHING to kill them or mediocre/bad and easy prey even for bots. The prob is most ships can't fight them so they don't participate (read my thread/poll about BBs for more info) and only CVs and dds remain to duke it out. Now CVs can't really fight them as well, what they can do is kill the surface ships wit ASW fast and hope their subs are better than the red subs. This is what is happening. Subs are overcrowded, the demand to play in them is insane and as far as experiments go I believe they've found their market. Do I like the mode? Well anything that gives a good mix of bots and humans fighting it out offers great fun for me. Smol tactics, a bit of craziness, boldness galore, good fun. It's not worse than randoms, actually I believe it's much better.

[BlackYeti]

Well this clearly shows one thing. Even if there are some people willing to play subs, no one wants to play against them. Simple as that.

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

With comments like that you are just asking to have a nerve-agent sprayed onto your door handles...

 

Too soon we only recently got our damn central car park back.

[lovelacebeer]

Honestly I think they are just testing proof of concept and the basic mechanics rather than actually anything about strategy and or balancing, so it is very early days. 

 

 This way it's far easier to declare subs a success and charge ahead at full speed. 

[DanSilverwing]

Honestly everyone excited to have submarines in the game should be showing their support by playing non-submarines in this closed test mode.

 

Instead everyone who wants submarines want only to play the submarines, as is abundantly clear from the multitude of MM screenshots I've seen so far. Everyone who doesn't want submarines has much better things to do with their time, and no amount of bribery from WG is going to alter that.

[NobleRipper]

19 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

Honestly everyone excited to have submarines in the game should be showing their support by playing non-submarines in this closed test mode.

 

Instead everyone who wants submarines want only to play the submarines, as is abundantly clear from the multitude of MM screenshots I've seen so far. Everyone who doesn't want submarines has much better things to do with their time, and no amount of bribery from WG is going to alter that.

I can't help but wonder why they didn't think to offer Soviet Tokens for playing Subs Mode as surface ships: seems like they've been deliberately miserly with the drop rates of what are just going to be freely available silver ships for the most part anyhow, surely they could have offered a few tokens or even Soviet Containers?

 

1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

Also one way to get the spreadsheet to say Subs are fine

I'm honestly getting a little paranoid that either this is just a way of increasing subs' exposure to get people used to the idea before they're dumped into Random unilaterally, or possibly a bid for plausible deniability on WG's part to cover a lack of other ideas ("Well, we gave you the chance already to try them out and tell us what you think, but you chose not to")...

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Weren't the tokens supposed to fix that problem ? Jolly well done WG

Yeah for a couple of days as within a week all got all packs... ^^

[IanH755]

40 minutes ago, lovelacebeer said:

Honestly I think they are just testing proof of concept and the basic mechanics rather than actually anything about strategy and or balancing, so it is very early days. 

 

 This way it's far easier to declare subs a success and charge ahead at full speed. 

 

Quoted for posterity, just incase they go live next month

 

I fully expect Subs to get dropped into randoms in 3 months time - I month of testing V1 (patch 0.9.4 currently active) - one month testing V2 (patch 0.9.5 initial balancing) - one month of final balance testing (patch 0.9.6) - Live in patch 0.9.7 which is September and just so happens to be the 5 year anniversary of WoWS

 

Feel free to quote me too so we can see what happens!

[thisismalacoda]

Not true at all. According to a recent survey, 9 out of 10 bots enjoyed the mode and would play it again.

[Gvozdika]

Leaving aside my own views on the whole subs in WOWs thing.

 

Did no one at WG work out that this was precisely going to happen the moment everyone got the RNG sub bundle? Not a single person involved in the process just sat down and worked out what might possibly happen if there were no real incentives to play other classes? Not one?

 

Or are they that short-sighted and clueless that....actually never mind, I'll show myself out.  

[IanH755]

16 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

Did no one at WG work out that this was precisely going to happen the moment everyone got the RNG sub bundle? Not a single person involved in the process just sat down and worked out what might possibly happen if there were no real incentives to play other classes? Not one?

 

Or are they that short-sighted and clueless that....actually never mind, I'll show myself out.  

 

I think they thought that more people would be interested in the Mode, but with sooooo many other things happening in the game right now most people don't want to "waste time" after playing 2-3 games over the first 1-2 days (when there was very few bots at all) and deciding that Subs aren't for them.

 

The same happened in PTS CV-Rework, PTS Sub testing etc etc etc etc - after 2-3 games to get a basic idea of "good/bad", people quit to play a different mode. If you don't incentivise people to play the mode, and I'm talking like 50 coal per game, or one day of premium after 3 matches per day, or 300% XP for sub testing in a non-sub, hell even 5 steel per match etc then the next 3 weeks will be a big waste.

[Hanse77SWE]

Submarines is a waste of everyones time!

 

EDIT: I have zero interest in testing something that is so obviously broken that it will never work. When/if it looks remotely playable (and I doubt it ever will) THEN I will test it, but not before.

[Azalgor]

Just shows how good and healthy the idea of subs in random will be.

[Hugh_Ruka]

18 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

 

I think they thought that more people would be interested in the Mode, but with sooooo many other things happening in the game right now most people don't want to "waste time" after playing 2-3 games over the first 1-2 days (when there was very few bots at all) and deciding that Subs aren't for them.

 

The same happened in PTS CV-Rework, PTS Sub testing etc etc etc etc - after 2-3 games to get a basic idea of "good/bad", people quit to play a different mode. If you don't incentivise people to play the mode, and I'm talking like 50 coal per game, or one day of premium after 3 matches per day, or 300% XP for sub testing in a non-sub, hell even 5 steel per match etc then the next 3 weeks will be a big waste.

Pretty much that ...

 

Everyone will either test out subs themselves or has other things to do (ranked etc.). The content rush they are pushing out in the last year is biting them in the behind ...

[TunaRoll]

Vor 41 Minuten, IanH755 sagte:

 

Quoted for posterity, just incase they go live next month

 

I fully expect Subs to get dropped into randoms in 3 months time - I month of testing V1 (patch 0.9.4 currently active) - one month testing V2 (patch 0.9.5 initial balancing) - one month of final balance testing (patch 0.9.6) - Live in patch 0.9.7 which is September and just so happens to be the 5 year anniversary of WoWS

 

Feel free to quote me too so we can see what happens!

If this is true, i really feel like i should stop playing and grinding. I mean im using my time and money for a game that will change drastically to the worse in 3 months. I doubt that they will fix the balance until then. They didnt even really fixed the core game with CVs in over a year...there is zero hope that this new meta will end up balanced.

[Exocet6951]

26 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

I think they thought that more people would be interested in the Mode, but with sooooo many other things happening in the game right now most people don't want to "waste time" after playing 2-3 games over the first 1-2 days (when there was very few bots at all) and deciding that Subs aren't for them.

 

Play testing for WG is like being an intern at a large company, where you're expected to be grateful for the opportunity to do work for them free of charge.
And much like being an intern, nothing you do matters in any way, and the company will do whatever it was set on doing anyway, regardless of your feedback.

 

I'm telling you, 3 patches away from a Blizzard meme-worthy "Don't you guys have phones?"-type response from Sub_Octavian.

The disconnect is so mindblowing, there should be an award for it.

[invicta2012]

11 minutes ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Everyone will either test out subs themselves or has other things to do (ranked etc.). The content rush they are pushing out in the last year is biting them in the behind ...

This is rather the thing. In the last month they've given me 100,000,000 credits (and I re-bought ships with it) and two free ships via the Soviet event (Tallinn, Mikoyan), encouraged me to  buy the Makarov, and to use the sub testing mode to grind three Tier VIII carriers. I am still working on unlocking Drake from the RN CA event, and am still at Skane on the IKEA DDs.  My port has so many ships in it my head is spinning. I don't have the head space to learn Submarines as well. 

[loppantorkel]

They could ofc do a shipyard event in the special mode, with directives to motivate players to play different ships and classes. Maybe later in the process and with the first premium sub as main prize... Yea, that would probably do it

[Ragoutrabbit]

I hate the idea of Subs and have zero desire to fight against a class I can do nothing against so why would I want to play in the mode?

[Atorpad]

You are missing the point for testing . It is not about testing perks or anything else . at the end spreadshits will tell us that test was super successful and subs are gonna hit randoms and CB ...