Ops neutered even more?!?

[Andrewbassg]

Hi. Ops got neutered even more?  5 star KW. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, WTF?!? That's definitively NOT how I remember the income from it 

 

 

Edit: And.... I don't see the effect of the rank flag, This is how it supposed to be? It isn't a modifier?

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

And this is with the Anshan. A premium dd!

 

 

 

Lolz!!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Hello 

 

 

Without a premium account and with around 1.2k base exp the rewards are barely higher... it's pretty normal earnings for the amount of baseexp in your example. 

 

Remember that Anshan as a t6 doesn't earn that much more credits and the exp gain is only 50%+ with her base premium cammo. 

[ThePurpleSmurf]

38 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

I mean, WTF?!? That's definitively NOT how I remember the income from it 

This is what people get for abusing/exploiting the crap out of this game mode.

[invicta2012]

4 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

This is what people get for abusing/exploiting the crap out of this game mode.

They built the farm, people farmed it.

[ThePurpleSmurf]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

They built the farm, people farmed it.

They built it for people to have fun, but people abused and exploited it to farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP. Both is, from a company point of view, bad for business because it removes the need for a premium account. That's why they neutered it and nerfed it to the ground.

[invicta2012]

Just now, ThePurpleSmurf said:

They built it for people to have fun, but people abused and exploited it to farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP. Both is, from a company point of view, bad for business because it removes the need for a premium account. That's why they neutered it and nerfed it to the ground.

It has more to do with base rewards being nerfed because WG wanted to make that flag change. Was that because of Narai farming? No idea. 

[Andrewbassg]

13 minutes ago, _Warfarin_ said:

Hello 

 

 

Without a premium account and with around 1.2k base exp the rewards are barely higher... it's pretty normal earnings for the amount of baseexp in your example. 

 

Remember that Anshan as a t6 doesn't earn that much more credits and the exp gain is only 50%+ with her base premium cammo. 

Ermm... yes and no. You are correct, but premium ships earn more credit not JUST because of their camo. By default they earn more.How much....that's a variable.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said:

Ermm... yes and no. You are correct, but premium ships earn more credit not JUST because of their camo. By default they earn more.How much....that's a variable.

That is true. But you can't expect to get rich with a t6 premium without premium account even with the premium modifier. 

T6 with premium account barely make that much more. 

It's just how it is and has always been to be honest. 

[Andrewbassg]

8 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

They built it for people to have fun, but people abused and exploited it to farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP. Both is, from a company point of view, bad for business because it removes the need for a premium account. That's why they neutered it and nerfed it to the ground.

Well.... that's what they (WG) do with the game, right? So ..... 

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, _Warfarin_ said:

That is true. But you can't expect to get rich with a t6 premium without premium account even with the premium modifier. 

T6 with premium account barely make that much more. 

It's just how it is and has always been to be honest. 

I don't expect to detrone Musk, ( well standard account) but.... It is VERY poor. And again I' don't remember being such, even at 0.9.2-0.9.3 I play OPs regularly.

[IanH755]

2 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

They built it for people to have fun, but people abused and exploited it to farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP. Both is, from a company point of view, bad for business because it removes the need for a premium account. That's why they neutered it and nerfed it to the ground.

 

I think that shows a lack of really understanding of WG's intentions, and do you know HOW I know this, it's very simple - WG just increased the amount of economic signals you can run, so PvP games are now making far XP/FXP than operations ever could, even on "meh" results, because the only "good" Op for farming was Narai which only was playable 1 week in every 5.

 

So if allowing to people to "farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP." is "bad for business" in your words why have WG allowed everyone to now do it in every single game they, play every day 24/7?

 

A more realistic understanding is that WG want people to stop playing Co-Op/PvE and concentrate on PvP (which makes the most money apparently) and thats why PvP is being made more profitable and Ops are being made less profitable "in comparison", move more people back to PvP where the money is for WG.

[Panocek]

6 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

because the only "good" Op for farming was Narai which only was playable 1 week in every 5

We also had Operation Dynamo, Ultimate Frontier, Hermes and Cherry Blossom for pve farming as well.

[DanSilverwing]

Clan Battles is where it's at, @IanH755. Very reliable base rewards.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

I remember how I was in the habit of regularly grinding tier 6-7 in Operations in addition to randoms. I always felt that was a good solution to the 'challenge' of grinding those tiers, particularly certain ships.

[IanH755]

27 minutes ago, Panocek said:

We also had Operation Dynamo, Ultimate Frontier, Hermes and Cherry Blossom for pve farming as well.

 

and all removed nearly 18 months ago due to the CV-Rework.

[lossi_2018]

yea they were nerfed again

[DanSilverwing]

I don't think there have been any further economy nerfs. They honestly weren't that great for base credits before, and the base credits now are very comparable to standard co-op mode. Even Narai doesn't offer much advantage in credits over the T6 Ops, excepting that I have more T7 Premium ships that I purchased for running Narai.

 

Base XP is different, because to maximise your own rewards you really need to be greedy at the expense of your team mates. You can get some decent base numbers, and using Premium account time and Premium eco flags you can get some respectable numbers.

 

Typical Ryujo run (Sea Star, Tactical Expertise, Assistant, Major Contributor) 1,500 bxp and 191k base credits. But then factor in battle duration: this particular battle took 19:01. In that time I can run 2 or 3 co-op battles in my T8 Harekaze and get more more credits and XP. The only difference is the longer duration of Operations means the base rewards from a single battle can be higher and which can then be multiplied further with Premium account time and Premium eco flags. And using a Premium ship helps too.

 

Spoiler

 

All this Premium stuff, and non-PVE players think we're not making money for WG? You can be f2p, but to really make bank you have to be Premium. If you want f2p farming stick with T8/T9 Premium ships (I use Harekaze because she can get into battle first, deal large amounts of damage, and her service costs are quite low. YMMV).

 

*Clearly CV's are the best T6 farmers, and there is only one T6 Premium CV candidate. Had Wargaming not nerfed the Operations economy I would have purchased Ark Royal for sure to exploit this. But they made their decision so my wallet is firmly closed. 

[SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue]

Not big nerf,  you still can make a decent amount of credits, and Narai is the best Op. for cv commanders;

This is from a 4 stars only, 10 min ago....

 

[Andrewbassg]

52 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

yea they were nerfed again

Yep. 

[Andrewbassg]

59 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

I don't think there have been any further economy nerfs. They honestly weren't that great for base credits before, and the base credits now are very comparable to standard co-op mode. Even Narai doesn't offer much advantage in credits over the T6 Ops, excepting that I have more T7 Premium ships that I purchased for running Narai.

 

Base XP is different, because to maximise your own rewards you really need to be greedy at the expense of your team mates. You can get some decent base numbers, and using Premium account time and Premium eco flags you can get some respectable numbers.

 

Typical Ryujo run (Sea Star, Tactical Expertise, Assistant, Major Contributor) 1,500 bxp and 191k base credits. But then factor in battle duration: this particular battle took 19:01. In that time I can run 2 or 3 co-op battles in my T8 Harekaze and get more more credits and XP. The only difference is the longer duration of Operations means the base rewards from a single battle can be higher and which can then be multiplied further with Premium account time and Premium eco flags. And using a Premium ship helps too.

 

 

 

I'm aware of the difference and the factors that you mentioned  (f2p but I was on premium from Christmas till end of March), but the point is that they did the nerf NOT telling about..... And it seemed ( and I genuinely hoped) that they learned a lesson...NOT to mention the  fact that they did it..again...

 

 

 

59 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

 

All this Premium stuff, and non-PVE players think we're not making money for WG? You can be f2p, but to really make bank you have to be Premium. If you want f2p farming stick with T8/T9 Premium ships (I use Harekaze because she can get into battle first, deal large amounts of damage, and her service costs are quite low. YMMV).

 

 Also I provided the result of a premium ship. And.....how to put it...there is NO difference?

 

And I don't see the effect of the rank flag, am I missing something? It is for ranked battles only?

[Hopeless_Guppy]

2 hours ago, IanH755 said:

 

I think that shows a lack of really understanding of WG's intentions, and do you know HOW I know this, it's very simple - WG just increased the amount of economic signals you can run, so PvP games are now making far XP/FXP than operations ever could, even on "meh" results, because the only "good" Op for farming was Narai which only was playable 1 week in every 5.

 

So if allowing to people to "farm absurd amounts of credits and free XP." is "bad for business" in your words why have WG allowed everyone to now do it in every single game they, play every day 24/7?

 

A more realistic understanding is that WG want people to stop playing Co-Op/PvE and concentrate on PvP (which makes the most money apparently) and thats why PvP is being made more profitable and Ops are being made less profitable "in comparison", move more people back to PvP where the money is for WG.

So does this mean that eventually co op mode will disapear?

[DanSilverwing]

20 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

 

I'm aware of the difference and the factors that you mentioned  (f2p but I was on premium from Christmas till end of March), but the point is that they did the nerf NOT telling about..... And it seemed ( and I genuinely hoped) that they learned a lesson...NOT to mention the  fact that they did it..again...

 

 

 

 Also I provided the result of a premium ship. And.....how to put it...there is NO difference?

 

And I don't see the effect of the rank flag, am I missing something? It is for ranked battles only?

What are you talking about? I just demonstrated the results of this rotation are exactly the same as the last time KW was on rotation. There was the well-known super nerf, but nothing subsequent. If you think otherwise, present your evidence.

 

As it is you managed 129k base credits on 97k damage in a Premium ship. Whereas Ryujo got 191k base credits on 234k damage. That demonstrates the value of a Premium ship's credit modifier. And I'd bet an Ark Royal result is even better.

 

Also, your Ranked flag is included in your service costs discount, amounting to 45%. Not bad.

[Andrewbassg]

16 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

What are you talking about? I just demonstrated the results of this rotation are exactly the same as the last time KW was on rotation. There was the well-known super nerf, but nothing subsequent. If you think otherwise, present your evidence.

 

 I know about the "super" nerf. That's NOT what I'm talking about. And that's what I did. But I don't think that I do have "evidence" from the previous nerf. Btw its not a huge nerf. But I do think that its there.

 

16 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

As it is you managed 129k base credits on 97k damage in a Premium ship. Whereas Ryujo got 191k base credits on 234k damage. That demonstrates the value of a Premium ship's credit modifier. And I'd bet an Ark Royal result is even better.

 

 But its NOT a premium ship. Its the Nurnberg with a perma camo. The follow up post is with the Anshan, not as detailed, but comparable dmg wise....

16 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

Also, your Ranked flag is included in your service costs discount, amounting to 45%. Not bad.

Ok, thanks.

 

Edit: Btw one of the reasons for me liking OPs IS the team play......yeah I know:).....

 

[IanH755]

57 minutes ago, Inappropriate_noob said:

So does this mean that eventually co op mode will disapear?

 

WG have been very consistent with there statements regarding the "Co-Op Only" playerbase in the 4 years I've been playing. They say that they didn't design Co-Op for players to use as a separate game mode, they only designed it as a learning for new players to play a dozen or so games in the move to PvP and they don't like that "Co-Op Only" players exist because their stats tell them PvP players spend more, plus Co-Op/Ops are a bigger hit to their servers per game than PvP.

 

So based on all that I'm amazed that WG haven't done a WoT and blocked Co-Op already, but we Co-Op players are so numerous (IIRC around 30% of the total playerbase were "Co-Op only" back in 2016-ish) that WG, despite wanting to kill it off in one go, is being forced to reduce those Co-Op Only numbers very slowly by making it less rewarding/fun/worthwhile so that the player numbers drop more "naturally" to a point where WG can then say "well PvE doesn't have enough players to support it, we're capping it to T1-T2 and for new players only" or similar.

 

Doing that risks a huge amount of players leaving but WG seem to think that risk is acceptable because, realistically, how many will actually quit out of the thousands that play over this?