Providing Feedback - A Poll

[admiralgpt]

As my last post around feedback was removed, i have created a poll, feel free to contribute

[NobleSauvage]

16 minutes ago, admiralgpt said:

As my last post around feedback was removed, i have created a poll, feel free to contribute

There's no option for Ops in question 5, which is the one I would have picked if it were there; there are quite a few grievances relating to that mode at the moment.

[1MajorKoenig]

Dude is this a serious poll...? If you are serious it’s probably the worst and most biased poll I have aber seen.

 

And yes I think the Company is listening to feedback. Sometimes even too much and to the wrong peeps. Most of the “community driven” changes (due to whining) were straight up dumbing down and at the end detrimental.

 

You seem to believe everything should be 100% to your liking but guess what - it won’t be. 

[Humorpalanta]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

Dude is this a serious poll...? If you are serious it’s probably the worst and most biased poll I have aber seen.

 

And yes I think the Company is listening to feedback. Sometimes even too much and to the wrong peeps. Most of the “community driven” changes (due to whining) were straight up dumbing down and at the end detrimental.

 

You seem to believe everything should be 100% to your liking but guess what - it won’t be. 

Could you please share some of those "community driven" feedbacks which made things worse?

I am interested in the places where we were asked and able to say things. You can link forums, topics, what you feel however the point is that you have to show something that allowed communication 2 ways.

 

And please leave those ones out where WG changed something but there is no communication between sides only some made up topics.

Thanks!

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Humorpalanta said:

Could you please share some of those "community driven" feedbacks which made things worse?

 

Fighter Strafe for example. While the idea itself wasn’t necessarily bad and something needed to be done this change was another’s nail in the coffin for RTS CVs. 

 

Or think about all these changes to help BBs to stay safer. RPF and What not. 

 

The most vocal groups are not necessarily right. 

[firerider202]

Well this poll is pretty biased. And i think Wg is listening more than you think. But there is a difference between listening to feedback and copy feedback. Also you have to consider that only a very small percentage of wows players are active in forums etc..., the feedback from these sources is not representative for the whole community.

[admiralgpt]

1 minute ago, firerider202 said:

Well this poll is pretty biased. And i think Wg is listening more than you think. But there is a difference between listening to feedback and copy feedback. Also you have to consider that only a very small percentage of wows players are active in forums etc..., the feedback from these sources is not representative for the whole community.

true and the people on forums tend to have more issues - largely because they play more and like to get more involved in the game. But the poll isnt biased, there are answers available for everyone

[Humorpalanta]

11 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Fighter Strafe for example. While the idea itself wasn’t necessarily bad and something needed to be done this change was another’s nail in the coffin for RTS CVs. 

 

Or think about all these changes to help BBs to stay safer. RPF and What not. 

 

The most vocal groups are not necessarily right. 

I am sorry, are you blind?

 

I am interested in the places where we were asked and able to say things. You can link forums, topics, what you feel however the point is that you have to show something that allowed communication 2 ways.

 

[_DeathWing_]

The results are in! WG?! You see this?!

[firerider202]

Vor 11 Stunden, admiralgpt sagte:

But the poll isnt biased, there are answers available for everyone

The poll is pretty black and white, but the topic is not black and white. Thats the issue.

[1MajorKoenig]

12 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

I am sorry, are you blind?

 

I am interested in the places where we were asked and able to say things. You can link forums, topics, what you feel however the point is that you have to show something that allowed communication 2 ways.

 

 

Sorry dude but who is blind? Who asked for the strafing? And do you expect WG to ask you to decide on all the design features? Are you the only customer? Or do you seriously think the “community” is anywhere close to being aligned? Everyone wants something different. 

 

Btw: look at the development-based-on-feedback story in Act of Aggression. Some few geeks demanded a nerdy and unnecessary clumsy resource system and the game was unfun and dead on arrival. You greatly overestimate the reliability of individual feedbacks. Because they are just that 

 

You are part of a large group ans WG will try to balance opinion to please as many as possible . Doesn’t mean it’s always like YOU want. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. 

[Humorpalanta]

53 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Sorry dude but who is blind? Who asked for the strafing? And do you expect WG to ask you to decide on all the design features? Are you the only customer? Or do you seriously think the “community” is anywhere close to being aligned? Everyone wants something different. 

 

Btw: look at the development-based-on-feedback story in Act of Aggression. Some few geeks demanded a nerdy and unnecessary clumsy resource system and the game was unfun and dead on arrival. You greatly overestimate the reliability of individual feedbacks. Because they are just that 

 

You are part of a large group ans WG will try to balance opinion to please as many as possible . Doesn’t mean it’s always like YOU want. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. 

So you have nothing.

 

Thanks!

[Kartoffelmos]

The sad part is that strafing as a whole was "fine" until WG decided that Saipan needed special treatment. The CV-exclusive excessive skill gap existed before strafing but it obviously did not help the situation. The community wanted a better and more engaging fighter management and WG provided the strafing mechanic. How that translates to the community wanting strafing in particular is anybody's guess.

 

As for listening to the vocal minority, the Graf Zeppelin customer-driven "balance" is a nice example of how not to do it, but overall they have done a decent job. The notable exceptions are the CV rework and some of the the latest Russian/Soviet balancing changes (Kremlin in particular) where they are listening to a very vocal minority, it seems.

 

The main problem (at least to me) seems to be that WG is somewhat disconnected between how they view the game (through spreadsheets and general feedback) and how the game actually plays at the moment. A nice example is how one developer (or Sub_Octavian, I can't remember but regardless; please let Sub_Octavian answer all questions in the future) stated that carriers in clan wars made the games more dynamic since the average battle time went down. If anything, that should indicate that games are either more fast-paced (extremely doubtful) or that a certain element is introducing an easy way to collect points or to prevent the enemy from getting points.

 

Regarding general feedback, I sincerely hope that they have some quality control systems in place (at times it feels like this is lacking) because simply collecting all the complaints that "battleships are too weak" will not make for a good decision-making foundation.

[Saltface]

14 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

it’s probably the worst and most biased poll I have aber seen.

13 hours ago, firerider202 said:

Well this poll is pretty biased.

 

Just out of technical curiosity, why is this poll biased?

In order to help you answer my question I have hereunder a list with the most common flaws of polls. Could you identify them in the poll in question? Or could you identify other flaws? Would really like to know. Actually, bias, falls under 1. Loaded and leading questions. Maybe, bias, isn't what you wanted to say.

 

Brief helping list

1. Loaded and leading questions: When writing questions for your poll, you want respondents to be able to answer as freely and honestly as possible. This means avoiding loaded and leading questions. A loaded question is one with an in-built assumption, and a leading question is one that nudges the respondent to answer in a particular way.

2. Misplaced questions: Related questions should always be grouped and asked in sequence, using a technique called "laddering." This allows respondents to focus on one thing at a time. If these questions were scattered throughout the survey, the respondent might feel overwhelmed and forget how they answered the previous questions.

3. Incomplete and mutually non-exclusive response categories: Design multiple-choice questions so that the response categories are complete and mutually exclusive. In order to be complete, the response categories must cover all possible answers. This often involves including a "None of the above" or "All of the above" category. For the response categories to be mutually exclusive, there must only be one correct answer.

4. Unintentionally vague questions: Unintentionally vague questions can be difficult to analyze. There is a world of difference between "What do you think about this product?" and "What do you like about this product?" 

5. Double-barreled questions: Each question should ask one thing and one thing only. 

6. Too many questions
 

There are more delicate points that we could treat but I really believe it is outside the scope of this thread

 

[1MajorKoenig]

7 minutes ago, Saltface said:

 

Just out of technical curiosity, why is this poll biased?

In order to help you answer my question I have hereunder a list with the most common flaws of polls. Could you identify them in the poll in question? Or could you identify other flaws? Would really like to know. Actually, bias, falls under 1. Loaded and leading questions. Maybe, bias, isn't what you wanted to say.

 

Brief helping list

1. Loaded and leading questions: When writing questions for your poll, you want respondents to be able to answer as freely and honestly as possible. This means avoiding loaded and leading questions. A loaded question is one with an in-built assumption, and a leading question is one that nudges the respondent to answer in a particular way.

2. Misplaced questions: Related questions should always be grouped and asked in sequence, using a technique called "laddering." This allows respondents to focus on one thing at a time. If these questions were scattered throughout the survey, the respondent might feel overwhelmed and forget how they answered the previous questions.

3. Incomplete and mutually non-exclusive response categories: Design multiple-choice questions so that the response categories are complete and mutually exclusive. In order to be complete, the response categories must cover all possible answers. This often involves including a "None of the above" or "All of the above" category. For the response categories to be mutually exclusive, there must only be one correct answer.

4. Unintentionally vague questions: Unintentionally vague questions can be difficult to analyze. There is a world of difference between "What do you think about this product?" and "What do you like about this product?" 

5. Double-barreled questions: Each question should ask one thing and one thing only. 

6. Too many questions
 

There are more delicate points that we could treat but I really believe it is outside the scope of this thread

 

Asking is the „game in the worst state ever“ already implies the author thinks it is. It further implies it is because WG does „not listen“ which I explained above isn’t as straight forward as the author thinks. As he only sees his own perspective and forgets that the are thousands of more/other perspectives. And on top the last question which mode „frustrates the most“ can only be answered with a „all are perfect“. Really? A mode doesn’t need to be perfect to be fine. The poll is heavily biased towards frustration and the feeling of not being heard.

[159Hunter]

24 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Asking is the „game in the worst state ever“ already implies the author thinks it is. It further implies it is because WG does „not listen“ which I explained above isn’t as straight forward as the author thinks. As he only sees his own perspective and forgets that the are thousands of more/other perspectives. And on top the last question which mode „frustrates the most“ can only be answered with a „all are perfect“. Really? A mode doesn’t need to be perfect to be fine. The poll is heavily biased towards frustration and the feeling of not being heard.

How odd that when it comes to polls of CV apologists you never respond in this manner...

[firerider202]

Vor 1 Stunde, Saltface sagte:

Just out of technical curiosity, why is this poll biased?

In order to help you answer my question I have hereunder a list with the most common flaws of polls. Could you identify them in the poll in question? Or could you identify other flaws? Would really like to know. Actually, bias, falls under 1. Loaded and leading questions. Maybe, bias, isn't what you wanted to say.

This

 

Vor 3 Stunden, firerider202 sagte:

The poll is pretty black and white, but the topic is not black and white. Thats the issue.

and this

 

Vor 1 Stunde, 1MajorKoenig sagte:

Asking is the „game in the worst state ever“ already implies the author thinks it is. It further implies it is because WG does „not listen“ which I explained above isn’t as straight forward as the author thinks. As he only sees his own perspective and forgets that the are thousands of more/other perspectives. And on top the last question which mode „frustrates the most“ can only be answered with a „all are perfect“. Really? A mode doesn’t need to be perfect to be fine. The poll is heavily biased towards frustration and the feeling of not being heard.

I can either say the game and wg is crap or Perfect, but its realy not that easy.

[Saltface]

2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Asking is the „game in the worst state ever“ already implies the author thinks it is. It further implies it is because WG does „not listen“ which I explained above isn’t as straight forward as the author thinks. As he only sees his own perspective and forgets that the are thousands of more/other perspectives. And on top the last question which mode „frustrates the most“ can only be answered with a „all are perfect“. Really? A mode doesn’t need to be perfect to be fine. The poll is heavily biased towards frustration and the feeling of not being heard.

So, if I understand correctly, you are stating that the poll has loaded questions or leading questions. Actually your concerns are about questions No. 4 and No. 5.

 

Lets have a look at Q4, shall we?

"Is the game currently in the worst state you have ever seen it?"  Does it imply it is so (worst state)? Grammatically it does not. If the poll said "The game is in the worst state ever. Do you agree?" you could be on to something. Don't forget that English is not the mother language of most of us (not mine at least). Any way. The question has no actual value since we can only find out if the respondents consider the game to be or not to be in its worse state. Rather trivial piece of info. IMHO Q4 is not loaded or leading. Its poorly phrased and has nothing to offer but it does not guide the reader¹. 

 

Here are two examples to help you better understand the distinction of loaded and leading:

Loaded question: Where is your favorite place to drink alcohol? Here it implies the reader is an alcohol drinker. It defines a priori something to be a fact when we have absolutely nothing to support the veracity of this statement. It loads the question by attributing to the reader characteristics that we know diddly about..
Leading question: How would you rate our exceptional customer service? Here it implies the reader considers the service "exceptional".

 

In my view calling Q4 leading is a bit too much. Poorly formulated? Yes. Biased? No.

 

Now lets move on to Q5.

Well it is just fine. Not well written but also not biased. It has an error as Ops are not included in the question and "none of the above" is missing. But this is not bias. It is a mistake (item No. 3 on my list). Furthermore, Q5 doesn't enlighten us in any way. We can only find out about the

 comparative level of frustration between game modes. Not important.

 

The poll is not biased. It could have been written in a better way, but in all fairness, it is not biased. The poll does not oblige the "interviewee" to answer "the game is in the worst state ever" or anything else for that matter. Unless, you consider bias the fact that the OP is asking: "Are you frustrated as I am?" I am sorry, but "Are you frustrated as I am?" is not a Bias. It is a very valid question. Why the OP had to make a thread poll to ask one question eludes my ability to understand. I am sure he must have his reasons. But it takes a long way to call the poll biased.

 

12 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

The poll is pretty black and white, but the topic is not black and white. Thats the issue.

11 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

and this

 

Uhmmmm....Polls MUST be black and white, or else you open the door to the ambiguity of results and their interpretation. Which is a bad bad thing for polls. A well designed poll is Black and White and takes yes or no for an answer. If you need to write an essay it is not a poll. Should a complex issue be at hand you could (and should) find another way to gather the information you want to find out. How about interviews? Or a very long, elaborate and complex questionnaire distributed to a normalized representative sample of people? It also works.

 

And I repeat again, the Poll is not biased. I don't understand why I should answer five questions instead of this one "Are you frustrated as I am?" But who cares? 

 

 

[WilliWankaChocoFab]

I would rate the game with 78%

[firerider202]

Vor 2 Minuten, Saltface sagte:

So, if I understand correctly, you are stating that the poll has loaded questions or leading questions. Actually your concerns are about questions No. 4 and No. 5.

 

Lets have a look at Q4, shall we?

"Is the game currently in the worst state you have ever seen it?"  Does it imply it is so (worst state)? Grammatically it does not. If the poll said "The game is in the worst state ever. Do you agree?" you could be on to something. Don't forget that English is not the mother language of most of us (not mine at least). Any way. The question has no actual value since we can only find out if the respondents consider the game to be or not to be in its worse state. Rather trivial piece of info. IMHO Q4 is not loaded or leading. Its poorly phrased and has nothing to offer but it does not guide the reader¹. 

 

Here are two examples to help you better understand the distinction of loaded and leading:

Loaded question: Where is your favorite place to drink alcohol? Here it implies the reader is an alcohol drinker. It defines a priori something to be a fact when we have absolutely nothing to support the veracity of this statement. It loads the question by attributing to the reader characteristics that we know diddly about..
Leading question: How would you rate our exceptional customer service? Here it implies the reader considers the service "exceptional".

 

In my view calling Q4 leading is a bit too much. Poorly formulated? Yes. Biased? No.

 

Now lets move on to Q5.

Well it is just fine. Not well written but also not biased. It has an error as Ops are not included in the question and "none of the above" is missing. But this is not bias. It is a mistake (item No. 3 on my list). Furthermore, Q5 doesn't enlighten us in any way. We can only find out about the

 comparative level of frustration between game modes. Not important.

 

The poll is not biased. It could have been written in a better way, but in all fairness, it is not biased. The poll does not oblige the "interviewee" to answer "the game is in the worst state ever" or anything else for that matter. Unless, you consider bias the fact that the OP is asking: "Are you frustrated as I am?" I am sorry, but "Are you frustrated as I am?" is not a Bias. It is a very valid question. Why the OP had to make a thread poll to ask one question eludes my ability to understand. I am sure he must have his reasons. But it takes a long way to call the poll biased.

 

 

Uhmmmm....Polls MUST be black and white, or else you open the door to the ambiguity of results and their interpretation. Which is a bad bad thing for polls. A well designed poll is Black and White and takes yes or no for an answer. If you need to write an essay it is not a poll. Should a complex issue be at hand you could (and should) find another way to gather the information you want to find out. How about interviews? Or a very long, elaborate and complex questionnaire distributed to a normalized representative sample of people? It also works.

 

And I repeat again, the Poll is not biased. I don't understand why I should answer five questions instead of this one "Are you frustrated as I am?" But who cares? 

 

 

I dont know why you are focusing so much on this, i agree that biased is maybe not the ideal formulation. But its not realy a neutral poll. For example instead of saying "Is the game currently in the worst state you have ever seen it?" you could say "In which state is the game in your opinion". Also a poll doeskin have to be black and white, you could just add the answer "sometimes", "partly" ore something like this. If you make such a simplified poll about a complex topic, the results are not representative and cant be realy used as an argument ore proof for anything. Qs 4 and five are leading btw.

[Verblonde]

1. Yup.
2. They absolutely listen; the more nuanced matter is whether they do anything about it or not. Often when people refer to 'the community' they mean we forumites; understand that we are a minority of the customer base, just a rather vocal one.
3. Nope. That wouldn't make any difference: if people agreed with the decision, they would applaud WG for going against the stream in a far-sighted way; if they didn't, they would condemn WG for following the 'masses/whiners'.
4. Not even close. DDs, in particular, are (mostly) playable; that wasn't the case with early iterations of the reework, for example. The standard of players *is* probably as bad as I've ever seen it, but that's not WG's fault.
5. Ranked (full-fat, not Sprint), but that's designed to be, and I only play it as long as it's fun (Rank 10 usually).

There's plenty that WG get wrong, but I suspect that their data gathering is pretty much good enough for their needs and for their industry; that isn't the same as taking action on every last person who asks for something and neither should it be...

[Saltface]

31 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

"In which state is the game in your opinion".

Correct, you will notice in my post there is a superscript. I was rewriting Q4 in the way you suggested and I deleted that part. But I forgot to remove the superscript.

 

But, you could ask then (very rightfully)

32 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

I dont know why you are focusing so much on this

---------

32 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

just add the answer "sometimes", "partly" ore something like this.

I will technically disagree with you. To illustrate I will just ask what "partly" or "sometimes" means? Each one has a different value in thought. Ambiguity of results?

---------

35 minutes ago, firerider202 said:

Qs 4 and five are leading btw.

Again, I will technically disagree. Please check item 1 on my list.

The poll does not oblige (lead) the responder to answer in a specific way.

 

I will use an example to illustrate. The following is a very leading question:

 

Q. How do you rate Saltface as a player?

a. very bad

b. bad

c. bellow average

d. average

e. he's OK

 

This is a leading question. There is no way for anyone to answer "Saltface is above average", the only answers acceptable portray Saltface as a bad player or bellow the threshold of average. When the results come in, Saltface will be at best "OK". The poll restricted (led) the results to only negative. That's bias.

 

Anyway, enough said, there is no need to continue this discussion because it is rather academic and of no interest (MHO) to most of the forumites.

 

[firerider202]

Vor 17 Minuten, Saltface sagte:

To illustrate I will just ask what "partly" or "sometimes" means?

Depends on question? 

[Saltface]

1 minute ago, firerider202 said:

Depends on question? 

qed

 

[firerider202]

Vor 21 Minuten, Saltface sagte:

Correct, you will notice in my post there is a superscript. I was rewriting Q4 in the way you suggested and I deleted that part. But I forgot to remove the superscript.

 

But, you could ask then (very rightfully)

---------

I will technically disagree with you. To illustrate I will just ask what "partly" or "sometimes" means? Each one has a different value in thought. Ambiguity of results?

---------

Again, I will technically disagree. Please check item 1 on my list.

The poll does not oblige (lead) the responder to answer in a specific way.

 

I will use an example to illustrate. The following is a very leading question:

 

Q. How do you rate Saltface as a player?

a. very bad

b. bad

c. bellow average

d. average

e. he's OK

 

This is a leading question. There is no way for anyone to answer "Saltface is above average", the only answers acceptable portray Saltface as a bad player or bellow the threshold of average. When the results come in, Saltface will be at best "OK". The poll restricted (led) the results to only negative. That's bias.

 

Anyway, enough said, there is no need to continue this discussion because it is rather academic and of no interest (MHO) to most of the forumites.

 

I think you are focusing to much on the technical side. The only thing i wanted to say is that this poll ist just pretty bad, both questions and answers. Is biased a wrong formulation? maybe yes as I already said. That changes not the fact that this poll is not representative in any way.