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Sir_Sinksalot

Adjust Final BoT Assault In Newport Ops Pls

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Hi,

 

Just a request based on the really poor winrate observation on this less popular Ops mission.

 

It's nice to have Ops and the more the better. I'm certainly not ranting or looking for this offering to be removed etc just requesting that the devs might take another look at balancing that final assault in this mission since it's clear that your average random team just can't deal with it most of the time and it's a shame to have to "avoid" or play some other game mode or game because of the strong likelihood of a loss when playing this particular mission. Personally, I like tough missions but this one gets a bit overwhelming during the last assault when all flanks are being pressed hard and fast by these forward facing bot-boats. The first 3 assault stages of this mission are fine, getting progressively more difficult and maybe the 3rd assault has a few too many DD's should your team not feature many light cruisers to rip those DD's apart but other than that the first 3 stages are fine in regards balance and difficulty. 

 

There's lots of comments a player can make about strategies and boat classes that should and shouldn't be chosen but lets not go there and just keep it simple and with the average player in mind that doesn't look up info on forums or strategies about missions etc. Like the other Ops missions, a player shouldn't really have to consider too much about what type of ship they want to chose but with this offering it really doesn't suit DD's all that much though a good player can certainly make good use of it with a DD... but lets be honest, most aren't good. And that's fine and my point, it needs to be adjusted with your average player in mind. Limiting the number of DD's to two max would also be an improvement too(one would be better!!)

 

Am I suggesting make it idiot proof or easy? No, Am I saying bad play should be rewarded and mistakes not punished by these bots? No, not at all, I would hate that. What I AM saying is that the final assault needs re-balancing. Now, that can be any combination of things to make it slightly more achievable for your average random team. It can be removing a couple of DD's from the final assault, or replacing them with a few lower tier cruisers or making a few of the ships a ship from one tier lower. The devs can try a few options with this and I don't think it would take much time but the result would actually be a Ops offering that most players would then like to play a few battles of since they know they have a fair chance of winning should they play moderately well and sensibly instead of avoiding it altogether.

 

Thanks.

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I played it this week. Biggest prob is the captains are very new and dont know it well or at all. If the team times their responses perfectly and has a competent CV it is doable. But most times a couple of  players will overextend or go forth blidnly and effectivly leave the team open for the last wave. Perhaps a more sensible MM would give 1 CV, at least 2 BBs and the rest cruisers with perhaps 1-2 dds if too many are present. But again the biggest prob is the 'unfamiliarity' of the players to the mission (I'm trying hard not to use offensive language here haha)

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8 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

I played it this week. Biggest prob is the captains are very new and dont know it well or at all. If the team times their responses perfectly and has a competent CV it is doable. But most times a couple of  players will overextend or go forth blidnly and effectivly leave the team open for the last wave. Perhaps a more sensible MM would give 1 CV, at least 2 BBs and the rest cruisers with perhaps 1-2 dds if too many are present. But again the biggest prob is the 'unfamiliarity' of the players to the mission (I'm trying hard not to use offensive language here haha)

Although if you only have cruisers and no CV it is incredibly hard to win, even with some competent randoms, need some tanky BB's that don't play one-by-one and ironically enough camp in the right areas. I cringe whenever i see a furious would rather have ranger of ryujo (or a bloody tier 8 carrier for ez wins).

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I dislike Newport intensely; I'm not sure what it needs to fix it, but it certainly needs some attention!

 

I sometimes wonder if it's deliberate though: Newport is undoubtedly contributing to WG's "people don't like Ops, so we can remove them" spreadsheet...

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3 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Although if you only have cruisers and no CV it is incredibly hard to win, even with some competent randoms, need some tanky BB's that don't play one-by-one and ironically enough camp in the right areas. I cringe whenever i see a furious would rather have ranger of ryujo (or a bloody tier 8 carrier for ez wins).

Furious can actually do really well in Newport (as long as the captain has a brain... big ask, I know :Smile_trollface:) and remembers that they can use Torpedoes to force enemy ships to crash into islands and that abusing the climb mechanic for level bombing the enemy Cruisers/BB's for easy, low risk fires is a thing that works (assuming your using the Skuas so that you can actually hit)

 

That said Ryujo is still the king of OPs (can't stand the Ranger myself)

 

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

The biggest issue with Newport is the third wave (IMO) a ton of torp spamming and rapid fire AA heavy Cruisers along with surprisingly beefy Destroyers that aren't afraid to charge forward and then lay smoke when hit hard (which provides cover for the following ships) which all need killing off very, VERY quickly to stop them entering the harbor and due to the oppressively tight time scale before the final wave spawns.

 

It also doesn't help that the second wave BB's are usually very uncooperative in sinking to less skilled players and act as perfect distractions drawing firepower away from the third wave for a good 10 - 40 seconds.

 

It's this double punch of a mean third wave that beats down the players if handled poorly combined with the 'Oh S**t enemy's coming from everywhere and nicking our fifth star Doomsday clock' ticking down in the background that forces you to play very aggressive if you want to finish off wave three before all hell breaks loose. 

This results in players making mistakes that sink them or not being aggressive enough due to the fear of f**king up/sinking that causes the final wave to spawn while two - three ships from wave three are still alive and blamming players and acting as the perfect distraction to prevent your average potato from reacting to the incoming hoard or retreating to heal up.

 

The third wave also seems to act as a massive source of demoralization as by the end of it the team is usually beaten up, with at least one star lost and now has to fight the biggest swarm yet. I have seen waaaayy too many players seemingly give up at this point and decide it's already over so decide to sit there, out in the open, with DD's baring down on them and fire away to farm damage before the perceived impending loss despite the fact that if they pulled back and regrouped it might still be winnable. (I've seen BB drivers literally not even move to dodge Torpedoes launched from 8km away from them - even when players have typed in chat "Torps incoming [INSERT SHIP HERE]!) 

 

IMO If they increased the wave spawn timer by 30 seconds so you had more time to kill off wave two/three and possibly spaced out the third wave a bit more so it isn't all clumped together in one big ship ball of pain then Newport would become a lot more winnable.

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1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

I dislike Newport intensely; I'm not sure what it needs to fix it, but it certainly needs some attention!

 

I sometimes wonder if it's deliberate though: Newport is undoubtedly contributing to WG's "people don't like Ops, so we can remove them" spreadsheet...

There's no quick fix for Newport, the problem is with the makeup of the mission itself rather than any individual part of it. Other missions let you take chances and play creatively to come up with clever new tactics, Newport just crushes you for making mistakes. The way it's structured, you're just doing the same thing from start to finish: find somewhere to hide/shelter/steam around defensively, and try to keep firing as fast as your guns will load for fear of being overwhelmed.

 

If just one part of the mission was that (like in Narai for example), it would be a fast and frenzied segment that people could look forward to as something different and intense; making it the whole mission means everyone burns out from the strain and gets swamped, often far before the end. It might be good for example if the defence part of the mission was at the start, followed by the team having to cheese it to an exit anchor perhaps with the support ships in tow; that way players could get to visit the other three quarters of the map for a change, if nothing else!

 

Oh, and don't speak of the spreadsh**t! It might hear you, and send its minions to pay the thread a visit... :Smile_hiding:

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I like Newport. Today I helped two teams of new players (5 totally new first timers and another that had half the team ded to first wave) achieve their first wins in Ryu of course and in a screamer last sec I'm ded but we won in a Gaede. 2 will to wins helped my spirits somewhat but I retired wows for today at least for a couple of hrs or more cuz I'm kinda beaten up. Some fantastic insight here and I need to add or reinforce that 5 stars IS NOT the only way to win good xp and creds. All other wins are pretty fine :)

 

PS: Furious needs a push, it can do the job but I prefer Ryu and Ranger (it can hit the dds very hard wit pretty much all squads)

 

PS2 Newport is a good Operation cuz it makes you face uptiered dds and BBs and some pretty good cruisers in lesser ships, imo opinion it kinda helps players if they stick to it. Actually it reminds me of my randoms, they always end like that. Outnumbered, blown apart and with the clock ticking down. Best wins ever :)

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It's a bit frustrating, and I feel that more than any other operation, certain ships are vital for success. And one of those ships isn't Furious. Those Barracuda bombers are maddening.

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You have right that this Operation is very difficult in random team due to fact that like none of other operations this one punishes very hard for mistakes and "clever in different way" players in team. There are too many places where one mistake can make a lose but tbh I think that exchanging one DD for slower ship or erasing this one DD in 3rd wave and erasing one cruiser or exchanging Konig for Kaiser or Aoba for Furutaka from Last Biggest Attack could be enough to make this operation very funny and interesting to most players. In most observed by me cases losing of Cap Defence causes morale downgrade and too many enemies in Last Attack are problem for less experienced and new players. 

As I am big fan of Operations I simply dislike how this Operation could be screwed by own players and how determination of chosen ships can set the result from the start. I hate how it's different form Narai where last living player can make a difference.

 

Personally I wait for rework of this operation ( but I'm sure that never happens as it's operation is "working as intended" as same as they "reworked" Raptor or Narai "correcting" exp and credits gain instead of fixing real bugs )

 

Operation could be more interesting if few ealier opponents ( especially from last Cap Atack ) would be erased. Here even buffed Yamato could replace Izumo as Boss - in this case it would be real Boss Battle not battle with incompetence of own teammembers.

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I like it but maybe have it setup so that if you go in as a division it remains as it is now and if it is a bunch of randoms maybe a slightly toned down version to compensate for less teamwork etc.
As for scenarios in general would like to see some for other tiers T6 only is too limiting.
They are a nice change of pace from randoms and far more enjoyable than co op.

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45 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

The game crashed in the middle of that scenario. Nice.

Yep, happened to me once too. 

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First try this morning in hmm, I think it was a London? My team rushed the first wave and then proceeded to steam full ahead to other side of the map. I think they encountered the last wave at some point but staying in the base alone and duking it out was a fantastic experience. I almost got tempted to go back to randoms.

 

Almost :)

 

PS Someone actually asked in chat where was the enemy haha, fun times :D

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3 hours ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

The game crashed in the middle of that scenario. Nice.

Happens to me too, every other time I run this OP.

.Screen freezes 

.Still can hear sounds but looping

.Forced to Task manager shut the game then re-load (and hopefully make it back in before anyone realizes what happened :Smile_hiding:

(and then have to pick up the slack as everything fell apart in the 3 minutes I was away)

 

I thought it was my Aslain-WoW mod pack at first, but it still happens even after an update and not re-installing the mods, so I guess it's just Newport being drunk as this is the only OP it happens on.

 

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12 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

First try this morning in hmm, I think it was a London? My team rushed the first wave and then proceeded to steam full ahead to other side of the map. I think they encountered the last wave at some point but staying in the base alone and duking it out was a fantastic experience. I almost got tempted to go back to randoms.

 

Almost :)

 

PS Someone actually asked in chat where was the enemy haha, fun times :D

That's pretty... Differently competent, even for current times (I've actually lost almost half the Co-op battles I've played in T5s this last week when the team has been a T4/5 mix, although at least some of those were down to the green team being largely made up of bots for some strange reason, and I'd like to think it wasn't just down to my own rank incompetence). Still, kinda goes to show that the scenario just isn't as intuitively constructed as it should be.

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1 minute ago, NobleSauvage said:

That's pretty... Differently competent, even for current times (I've actually lost almost half the Co-op battles I've played in T5s this last week when the team has been a T4/5 mix, although at least some of those were down to the green team being largely made up of bots for some strange reason). Still, kinda goes to show that the scenario just isn't as intuitively constructed as it should be.

It is extreme ofc, and I agree on the co op losses. I had my head bashed in a couple of times too due to lack of players and extreme cases of cowardice haha ;D

 

It is a difficult scenario to play without a decent team that knows what is going to happen.

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19 hours ago, Verblonde said:

I dislike Newport intensely; I'm not sure what it needs to fix it, but it certainly needs some attention!

 

I sometimes wonder if it's deliberate though: Newport is undoubtedly contributing to WG's "people don't like Ops, so we can remove them" spreadsheet...

 

Possibly, but WG need to be aware that if their intentions are as such, to put players off Ops and remove it, this doesn't automatically mean those same players will continue with WoWs and simply play some other mode that WG would prefer them to play. Personally speaking, I would be one of those players. If WG purposefully screwed Ops or removed it, I doubt I'd play WoWs much at all, I already play other PvP games. For me, WoW is about chilling and enjoying these majestic warships. You might say that I could still play Co-op then just to chill but I don't really like that mode and prefer the Ops challenge which can be played different ways with different classes and types of ships with different attributes so I can just play it over and over and it's still fun.

 

That doesn't mean I don't spend money on the game of course I do. I pay to reset captain skills once I have enough skill points to make switching around some of them the sensible option at that point. I spend money buying some captains from the Armory, in fact WG should add limitless amounts of 10 skill point captains to the Armory and for all nations imo, what do WG care how many players purchase? Money is money and if a player wants an immediate 10 point captain they should be able to do so it's not a 20 or 30 skill point captain so who cares? and some ships like DD's really need an immediate 10 skill point captain for the concealment expert or that DD sucks balls. What else... oh, I often treat my favorite Ops keepers to a perma-camo. I really like the customization aspect of game, my WoT tanks are all covered in fancy camo etc lol I just like that, not the cheesy obnoxiously bright stuff but just the nice historical or rugged looking camo or in WoWs, the dazzle camo is pretty nice so I spend money on that. In fact, WG should expand on their perma-camo options and I see other players with the same ships I use but with camo's not for sale and from events that I can't get but would really like. Why not sell those? I would buy them. So for WG they just need to look at ways of making Ops work for them as a for of income and not try force players into other game modes they don't AND WON'T play because all that happens there is those same players play less of just stop playing altogether. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

[Snip]

 

 What else... oh, I often treat my favorite Ops keepers to a perma-camo. I really like the customization aspect of game, my WoT tanks are all covered in fancy camo etc lol I just like that, not the cheesy obnoxiously bright stuff but just the nice historical or rugged looking camo or in WoWs, the dazzle camo is pretty nice so I spend money on that. In fact, WG should expand on their perma-camo options and I see ships I use with camo's not for sale and from events. Why not sell those? I would buy them. So for WG they just need to look at ways of making Ops work for them as a for of income and not try force players into other game modes they don't AND WON'T play because all that happens there is those same players play less of just stop playing altogether. 

This x 100000000 2  I would love to have some cool unique permaflages for my tier 6 CV's, although in my case the weirder the better!

I love the Nobilium skin for the Lexington and Gorgon skin for Shokaku and have enviously stared at the Hellcarrier skin for the Hakuryu and wished that WarGaming would do something similar for the Furious, Ryujo and Ranger (and Ark Royal)

 

I was kinda hoping the WarHammer 40k crossover would have been for lower tiers as those ships look more... err.. WarHammery but sadly it seems to be another tier VIII skin set.

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2 minutes ago, DeviousDave02 said:

This x 100000000 2  I would love to have some cool unique permaflages for my tier 6 CV's, although in my case the weirder the better!

I love the Nobilium skin for the Lexington and Gorgon skin for Shokaku and have enviously stared at the Hellcarrier skin for the Hakuryu and wished that WarGaming would do something similar for the Furious, Ryujo and Ranger (and Ark Royal)

 

I was kinda hoping the WarHammer 40k crossover would have been for lower tiers as those ships look more... err.. WarHammery but sadly it seems to be another tier VIII skin set.

 

Absolutely mate! Don't misunderstand, I am in no way suggesting the styles of camo's, ALL SORTS should be optional, the more the better! For those that don't like the flashy non-historical camo's just put a filter option to disable them in settings the same as WoT so that any non-historical camo featured in a battle is not shown and they appear as just without camo. 

 

Personally I think the Furious frontally looks like the wreck of the Titanic and would love a Titanic Wreck camo for it lol! See, no difference at all! :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Maybe for purchase next Halloween!

 

1bd92121eeabcc254e8714f9a65fe9c0.jpgtitanic.jpg

 

Actually, I saw the T6 French BB Normandie with this really nice Black hull, white casemate and red turret camo and really loved it, would be great to be able to buy all these camo's that are not optional to do so right now sadly and I'm really enjoying that BB right now with it's new special skills French captain from the containers.

 

Sell this camo WG! :Smile_great:

 

5983d9d8-338a-11e8-b12c-d89d6715223c.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, DeviousDave02 said:

IMO If they increased the wave spawn timer by 30 seconds so you had more time to kill off wave two/three and possibly spaced out the third wave a bit more so it isn't all clumped together in one big ship ball of pain then Newport would become a lot more winnable.

I'd say wave two is fine. If it spawns in the middle it might have too much time where the ships are not visible, but in general there isn't a huge problem getting from wave one to when wave two actually get in reasonable range. The problem is entirely wave three - they spawn too soon, and they mostly spawn too close (or are at least visible too near the base) considering how fast they are.

 

30 to 60 seconds on the spawn timer of that wave and move them a bit further out would do wonders for the operation.

 

Also, the reinforcements in case of early attack are way too weak, considering the group by that point probably is way underpowered.

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It's wave three which spawns earlier than is used to, and that's the one that causes the problems - because it makes it much more difficult for Destroyers to spot and flank the second wave, as they used to be able to do. 

 

But it's still doable, providing that people are focusing the right ships (Cruisers) and that someone is prepared to disrupt the third wave before it breaches the defence line.

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As an average  potatoplayer, kind of, I Think its to hard. Played this scenario many times, and the team allmost allways lose. Tried again today, playing the British cruiser Devonshire. Good ship, but that didnt help. The third wave overwhelmed us. As usual. :Smile_sad:

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Vor 21 Stunden, CptBarney sagte:

Although if you only have cruisers and no CV it is incredibly hard to win, even with some competent randoms, need some tanky BB's that don't play one-by-one and ironically enough camp in the right areas. I cringe whenever i see a furious would rather have ranger of ryujo (or a bloody tier 8 carrier for ez wins).

Some competent randoms can't make up for a triplet of people who can't hit a barn door or manage to get killed before the first bot is sunk. This time only 2 bot BBs and me remained above the waterline. I probably still could have won, but the death of those sitting duck supply ships can hardly be prevented once they are in range. :Smile_sceptic:

newport.jpg

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1 hour ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

Absolutely mate! Don't misunderstand, I am in no way suggesting the styles of camo's, ALL SORTS should be optional, the more the better! For those that don't like the flashy non-historical camo's just put a filter option to disable them in settings the same as WoT so that any non-historical camo featured in a battle is not shown and they appear as just without camo. 

 

Personally I think the Furious frontally looks like the wreck of the Titanic and would love a Titanic Wreck camo for it lol! See, no difference at all! :Smile_veryhappy:

 

Maybe for purchase next Halloween!

 

1bd92121eeabcc254e8714f9a65fe9c0.jpgtitanic.jpg

 

Actually, I saw the T6 French BB Normandie with this really nice Black hull, white casemate and red turret camo and really loved it, would be great to be able to buy all these camo's that are not optional to do so right now sadly and I'm really enjoying that BB right now with it's new special skills French captain from the containers.

 

Sell this camo WG! :Smile_great:

 

5983d9d8-338a-11e8-b12c-d89d6715223c.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

I'd never pieced together the Furious/Titanic bow similarity before, but you're spot on! Also, was thinking the other day while looking at one of those Trophy camos that were given out recently with a mission, which are just a kind of forest-green all over the ship (not sure what that has to do with trophies but there we are): it would be awesome to have the option of just changing ships' skins for a different single-colour all-over one , not to provide any bonuses or anything like a true camo but just as a cosmetic customisability option.

 

13 minutes ago, MementoMori_6030 said:

Some competent randoms can't make up for a triplet of people who can't hit a barn door or manage to get killed before the first bot is sunk. This time only 2 bot BBs and me remained above the waterline. I probably still could have won, but the death of those sitting duck supply ships can hardly be prevented once they are in range. :Smile_sceptic:

newport.jpgThis

This is it, with other Ops you can afford to have to carry a couple of team members along, possibly even all of them if one person is good enough and knows the Op.; in Newport, everyone has to carry for virtually the whole time...

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21 minutes ago, Jimbomaxi said:

As an average  potatoplayer, kind of, I Think its to hard. Played this scenario many times, and the team allmost allways lose. Tried again today, playing the British cruiser Devonshire. Good ship, but that didnt help. The third wave overwhelmed us. As usual. :Smile_sad:

You need to kill the first wave without any losses. You don't have to risk to kill the first wave. A CV can do it, bbs and CAs with focus fire.

 

2nd wave, the dds need to die first and fast. It's on the CV if there to do it. Fast. With help from the cruisers.

The BBs should target Furu next and then all attack the 2 BBs. No risk should happen, nor any losses.

 

3rd wave is tricky. If a CV is there it needs to hit the group with torps imo. Stall their advance. DDs and Cruisers should torp and attack and kill everything as fast as they can. Losses are expected if anyone misteps.

You don't push forward alone. Only the whole team can do it and it VERY dangerous.

 

The last wave depends on the ships that are left. If I'm in a CV I go after the right side cruisers alone. Sink the aoba and then attack the 2 dds in the middle. You can do the 2 dds first. The dds must be killed before or right after entering the port. The right side cruisers must die next as they swing around and torp a lot. Furutaka on the other flank must be the next target.

 

The last part depends heavily on the ships remaining. A BB + one other torp ship with a brain can kill the 3 last bbs.

 

 

PS (extra) A wrench in the works can happen if the team kills everything very fast at first and the friendly cruiser spawns hunted by the 2 aobas? The cruiser must survive (during that time the final wave starts) as it will help later against the dds

 

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