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pepsifreddie

Change Of Gameplay

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Not gonna bother with an opening line, lets get to it.

 

First: HE spam needs to be stopped. Island camping although a strategy, is not a fun one for everyone else. Period. A better system would be to do one of two things:

1 - Make HE do less damage in total

2 -  Give a bearing on whereabouts the ship is, sort of like a grey ship that isn't precise but gives you an idea of where to shoot on the map, or where to take cover, sort of how when you un-spot a ship there is just a mark on the map with its last location, sort of as a vector (maybe as a skill point).

 

Second: Carriers don't need to be changed, AA does. Again a simple thing to do either two ways, Buff AA obviously, its useless right now. Or make the defensive fire ability OP as hell. So that players have to use it carefully and make it more of a viable option. And lets players work as a team. ORRRR you could manually allow AA control, which has benefits of improved aim and damage output

 

Third: Fix Penetrations dammit. I know its a base for the game, but over pens should be destroying all sorts of components. A destroyer should NEVER feel comfortable with a battleship in 5km where is can dump torpedoes taking only 5k damage. Overpens should crush the insides of the guns, torpedoes, engine room, controls in general. Over pens should be worse than pens on LIGHTLY armoured ships. Bigger ships can take them better due to spacing.

(Third Continued): Pens need to be consistent as well, if you played long enough you should understand.

 

Fourth: Radar and sonar shouldn't be allowed to spot through islands. No.

 

Fifth: Punishing. Damage should be vectored as range decreases., sort of linking to 3, I have been in many situations with a minotaur, getting close to battleships like the yamato, well within 3km, and at that range I can just pummel away at his superstructure and torpedoes, where he can only over pen due to poor gun turning and the general chaos I can ensure to his doorstep. I shouldn't be allowed to do that. Damage should be more certain as I get closer. I should be forces to play well and not just yolo next to a battleship who is helplessly trying to kill me, but can't. I've been in battleships where the same thing has happened. And when it does, you just groan and cry as overpens galore hits you.

 

Sixth: Manuel Second battery control: World of warships blitz has it. 

 

Don't have to agree with everything :) just thoughts on the table

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, pepsifreddie said:

Not gonna bother with an opening line, lets get to it.

 

First: HE spam needs to be stopped. Island camping although a strategy, is not a fun one for everyone else. Period. A better system would be to do one of two things:

1 - Make HE do less damage in total

2 -  Give a bearing on whereabouts the ship is, sort of like a grey ship that isn't precise but gives you an idea of where to shoot on the map, or where to take cover, sort of how when you un-spot a ship there is just a mark on the map with its last location, sort of as a vector (maybe as a skill point).

 

Second: Carriers don't need to be changed, AA does. Again a simple thing to do either two ways, Buff AA obviously, its useless right now. Or make the defensive fire ability OP as hell. So that players have to use it carefully and make it more of a viable option. And lets players work as a team. ORRRR you could manually allow AA control, which has benefits of improved aim and damage output

 

Third: Fix Penetrations dammit. I know its a base for the game, but over pens should be destroying all sorts of components. A destroyer should NEVER feel comfortable with a battleship in 5km where is can dump torpedoes taking only 5k damage. Overpens should crush the insides of the guns, torpedoes, engine room, controls in general. Over pens should be worse than pens on LIGHTLY armoured ships. Bigger ships can take them better due to spacing.

(Third Continued): Pens need to be consistent as well, if you played long enough you should understand.

 

Fourth: Radar and sonar shouldn't be allowed to spot through islands. No.

 

Fifth: Punishing. Damage should be vectored as range decreases., sort of linking to 3, I have been in many situations with a minotaur, getting close to battleships like the yamato, well within 3km, and at that range I can just pummel away at his superstructure and torpedoes, where he can only over pen due to poor gun turning and the general chaos I can ensure to his doorstep. I shouldn't be allowed to do that. Damage should be more certain as I get closer. I should be forces to play well and not just yolo next to a battleship who is helplessly trying to kill me, but can't. I've been in battleships where the same thing has happened. And when it does, you just groan and cry as overpens galore hits you.

 

Sixth: Manuel Second battery control: World of warships blitz has it. 

 

Don't have to agree with everything :) just thoughts on the table

  1. It will never be stopped or do you want players shoot AP at armor they cannot penetrate? Btw, it is not really new or a change of gameplay. 2015 says hello...
  2.  
  3. Overpens do damage and believe me, DD not like BB sized overpens. And since no DD player knows what a BB will shoot next, they do not feel comfortable spotted at 5km distance from a BB. Try it out yourself!
  4. It will not change and it makes countering ships behind islands even more difficult. Something you complained about...
  5. Everyone should be more aware of their ships capability and limitation. When you get that close to a BB and still float, you should be rewarded.
  6. We have that too. Maybe you should elaborate...

 

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9 minutes ago, pepsifreddie said:

1 - Make HE do less damage in total

HE damage is fine. Its the fires which are an issue. For example.  Here is me playing Thunderer. This poor bloke died, literally 3 minutes into the game, And yes, Whilst my HE did 30k to him, It still only works out to less than 2kdmg per hit. Which for 457mm guns is hardly absurd. It was the tripple perma fires doing 52k to him that sealed his fate and there was absolutely nothing he could do about it. Once he put out the first double fire. He was dead. I often see people make lazy excuses for the amount of fires and their damage like 'Oh dur dur hur you can heal it all back hurr durr''. Yeah, you can, but because you're burning to death you're never going to live long enough to do that. 


Also, This Repub was not playing badly or yolo rushing either. He was playing quite well. Just absolutely nothing he can do against this sort of toxic fire spam.

 

3qqcim.png.1ecc539f0ba1fe4def5b2d043d7c06ea.png

 

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Got me a triple fire with 1 salvo yesterday on my Soviet Soyus when a Thunder hit me from a 18km away. Been playing since 2018 and for some reason that still surprised me :D

Went dark for a while and put an high island between me and that thunderer.

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14 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

Once he put out the first double fire. He was dead.

And here is the problem.

A double fire at the start of the match is nothing you need DMC for.

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45 minutes ago, pepsifreddie said:

2 -  Give a bearing on whereabouts the ship is, sort of like a grey ship that isn't precise but gives you an idea of where to shoot on the map, or where to take cover, sort of how when you un-spot a ship there is just a mark on the map with its last location, sort of as a vector (maybe as a skill point).

 

Surely, just follow the shell trajectory?   There is usually a clear trail behind the shells.

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38 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

.

A double fire at the start of the match is nothing you need DMC for.

a double fire can make you  lose a lot of health, which not all ships have to spare. If you don't have anything close to cover behind (not all spawn points do but you know that) is it better to let it flame? The next shot from another ship can bring you to critical health points pretty easily. How long should you let a double fire burn you? Cuz if you go the whole thirty there's another volley of HE coming + the fire dmg you have already let yourself sustain. You will then use dmg control but that's a lot of dmg to repair. A better advice or proposal is needed in my opinion :)

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Just now, lossi_2018 said:

a double fire can make you  lose a lot of health, which not all ships have to spare. If you don't have anything close to cover behind (not all spawn points do but you know that) is it better to let it flame? The next shot from another ship can bring you to critical health points pretty easily. How long should you let a double fire burn you? Cuz if you go the whole thirty there's another volley of HE coming + the fire dmg you have already let yourself sustain. A better advice or proposal is needed in my opinion :)

We are talking about BB...

You let the double fire burn the full duration.

When you setup your ship appropriately, as double fire does 20.4% damage -14% (15.4%) heal, that is 6.4% (5%) effective damage.

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1 hour ago, pepsifreddie said:

-snip-

  1. So, a straight up battleship buff then? also....What?
  2. You do know that a single carrier is almost incapable of killing most ships on its own right? It needs support from its allies. The only thing it can reliably kill by itself are DDs, camping cruisers (non camping cruisers too, but only if it wants to waste 10 minutes and not be helpful to the team) and players who're useless. (not including tier 4 CVs ofcourse)
  3. Again a straight up BB buff. There needs to be a semblance of balance you know.
  4. Please..just stop thinking about ideas that will further nerf DDs.
  5. I mean, if a minotaur managed to get within 3 km of a yamato, he kind of deserves the kill.
  6. No.

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Well, something's off in the game IMO. The DD's can make a disproportionate amount of damage with both their torpedoes and their guns (in some cases) using HE spam to capital ships. True, there is also typically a disproportionately low number of DD's per battle, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to make them that strong in an effort to even out the imbalance.

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8 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Well, something's off in the game IMO. The DD's can make a disproportionate amount of damage with both their torpedoes and their guns (in some cases) using HE spam to capital ships. True, there is also typically a disproportionately low number of DD's per battle, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to make them that strong in an effort to even out the imbalance.

Ah, really?

I marked the DD for you...

image.thumb.png.11316ef486771cca66971a0643bc3709.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200516/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

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11 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Well, something's off in the game IMO.

Unintended consequences of the IFHE rework. Cruisers and DDs have specc'd out of IFHE and are focusing on fires. I know I do it... first salvo is always HE, always to get a fire burning early doors and tempt people into using their DamCon and Heals. 

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

 

Statistics huh?

 

Please also factor in what makes DD's a difficult class to play, such as CV's in particular. Also bear in mind that the BB statistics like all the statistics are thrown off by the fact that the best players also have the best support. Statistics are IMO not a reliable method of trying to balance different ships because of a number of such factors, the only way to do this is to compare each ship's capabilities against another ship.

 

I play both DD's and BB's regularly, so I feel somewhat experienced in this area, even if I don't pretend to be anywhere near where the top players are.

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40 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Also bear in mind that the BB statistics like all the statistics are thrown off by the fact that the best players also have the best support.

What? 

41 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Statistics are IMO not a reliable method of trying to balance different ships because of a number of such factors, the only way to do this is to compare each ship's capabilities against another ship.

Ehm no. 

How are cvs balanced when you compare their capabilities against other ships? 

This makes no sense. 

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6 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

What? 

Ehm no. 

How are cvs balanced when you compare their capabilities against other ships? 

This makes no sense. 

 

For CV's? Air attack potential vs target's defensive potential? Theoretically, CV's should IMO be the easiest ship class to balance (though not a simple task even then...). What I meant above, is you can't balance the players, you have to balance the ships' capabilities.

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53 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Statistics huh?

 

Please also factor in what makes DD's a difficult class to play, such as CV's in particular. Also bear in mind that the BB statistics like all the statistics are thrown off by the fact that the best players also have the best support. Statistics are IMO not a reliable method of trying to balance different ships because of a number of such factors, the only way to do this is to compare each ship's capabilities against another ship.

This is not about balance, but your claim...

You claimed something that is not true. The weakest CV, CA and BB do more damage than the strongest performing DD. Compared to the weakest performing DD, they do double the damage...

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10 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

This is not about balance, but your claim...

You claimed something that is not true. The weakest CV, CA and BB do more damage than the strongest performing DD. Compared to the weakest performing DD, they do double the damage...

 

Overall?

 

The weakest DD (almost) can more likely sink the strongest BB than the weakest BB the strongest DD.

 

Again, I'm not talking about statistical performance, but ship to ship combat. If we bring cruisers into this too, a cruiser will outgun a DD in the game, which is what I would expect, but what I found puzzling is that a BB cannot similarly outgun a DD. It's like WG is using some kind of rock-scissors-paper kind of gimmicky approach to balancing and I find that very hard to deal with.

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Vor 12 Minuten, Karasu_Hidesuke sagte:

 

Overall?

 

The weakest DD (almost) can more likely sink the strongest BB than the weakest BB the strongest DD.

 

 

Only if the strongest BB is driven by the weakest player.

 

I play DD 50% of my matches. I rarely get sunk by torps in my BBs.  And if so, It was mostly my fault or bad luck.

 

There are TONS of countermeasures against DDs.

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12 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Overall?

 

The weakest DD (almost) can more likely sink the strongest BB than the weakest BB the strongest DD.

 

Again, I'm not talking about statistical performance, but ship to ship combat. If we bring cruisers into this too, a cruiser will outgun a DD in the game, which is what I would expect, but what I found puzzling is that a BB cannot similarly outgun a DD. It's like WG is using some kind of rock-scissors-paper kind of gimmicky approach to balancing and I find that very hard to deal with.

You know that DD are supposed to be the counter to BB, right?

 

And no, most DD cannot outgun a BB. Even the stronger DD need islands or smoke to do that.

In an open gun duel, it is hard for a DD to win vs a BB.

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3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

Not gonna bother with an opening line, lets get to it.

 

First: HE spam needs to be stopped. Island camping although a strategy, is not a fun one for everyone else. Period. A better system would be to do one of two things:

1 - Make HE do less damage in total

2 -  Give a bearing on whereabouts the ship is, sort of like a grey ship that isn't precise but gives you an idea of where to shoot on the map, or where to take cover, sort of how when you un-spot a ship there is just a mark on the map with its last location, sort of as a vector (maybe as a skill point).

 

Second: Carriers don't need to be changed, AA does. Again a simple thing to do either two ways, Buff AA obviously, its useless right now. Or make the defensive fire ability OP as hell. So that players have to use it carefully and make it more of a viable option. And lets players work as a team. ORRRR you could manually allow AA control, which has benefits of improved aim and damage output

 

Third: Fix Penetrations dammit. I know its a base for the game, but over pens should be destroying all sorts of components. A destroyer should NEVER feel comfortable with a battleship in 5km where is can dump torpedoes taking only 5k damage. Overpens should crush the insides of the guns, torpedoes, engine room, controls in general. Over pens should be worse than pens on LIGHTLY armoured ships. Bigger ships can take them better due to spacing.

(Third Continued): Pens need to be consistent as well, if you played long enough you should understand.

 

Fourth: Radar and sonar shouldn't be allowed to spot through islands. No.

 

Fifth: Punishing. Damage should be vectored as range decreases., sort of linking to 3, I have been in many situations with a minotaur, getting close to battleships like the yamato, well within 3km, and at that range I can just pummel away at his superstructure and torpedoes, where he can only over pen due to poor gun turning and the general chaos I can ensure to his doorstep. I shouldn't be allowed to do that. Damage should be more certain as I get closer. I should be forces to play well and not just yolo next to a battleship who is helplessly trying to kill me, but can't. I've been in battleships where the same thing has happened. And when it does, you just groan and cry as overpens galore hits you.

 

Sixth: Manuel Second battery control: World of warships blitz has it. 

 

Don't have to agree with everything :) just thoughts on the table

 

 

 

BB bingooooo! We got a winner!

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24 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

It's like WG is using some kind of rock-scissors-paper kind of gimmicky approach to balancing and I find that very hard to deal with.

Why? It's a team game. The rock paper scissor approach keeps the balance of class interaction. 

A team full of bbs loses to a team full of DDs. A team full of DDs loses to a team full of CAs. A team full of CAs loses to a team full of bbs. 

How else would you want to see it? 

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20 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Overall?

 

The weakest DD (almost) can more likely sink the strongest BB than the weakest BB the strongest DD.

 

Again, I'm not talking about statistical performance, but ship to ship combat. If we bring cruisers into this too, a cruiser will outgun a DD in the game, which is what I would expect, but what I found puzzling is that a BB cannot similarly outgun a DD. It's like WG is using some kind of rock-scissors-paper kind of gimmicky approach to balancing and I find that very hard to deal with.

 

TBH, that doesnt make much sense. Even most Cruisers cant spot a DD, so they cant kill it either. Same for BBs. If the DD would be spotted, the BB would wipe the floor with it. So you cant really compare ships like that, because you forget about spotting, and that wows isnt a 1v1.

 

3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

I have been in many situations with a minotaur, getting close to battleships like the yamato, well within 3km, and at that range I can just pummel away at his superstructure and torpedoes,

image.png.5e3fa1087ecf2f5e76b441e18405204b.png

 

Ofc poor BBs, let a Cruiser get to 3km (which he atleast spots 6+km earlier)... If you are so smart that you could pull that off all the time, you wouldnt actually complain the way you do.

3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

Pens need to be consistent as well, if you played long enough you should understand. 

maybe you should play more?

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16 minutes ago, xe_N_on said:

 

Only if the strongest BB is driven by the weakest player.

 

I play DD 50% of my matches. I rarely get sunk by torps in my BBs.  And if so, It was mostly my fault or bad luck.

 

There are TONS of countermeasures against DDs.

 

Well, like ColonePete says, it is most often down to smoke etc. When I'm in a BB it is also not that often (thankfully) I get sunk by torps these days, damaged, but not usually sunk unless I am low on HPs or do something.. amazingly stupid early on in the battle.

 

TONS of countermeasures? I'd be really interested to know how I can use those.

 

11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You know that DD are supposed to be the counter to BB, right?

 

And no, most DD cannot outgun a BB. Even the stronger DD need islands or smoke to do that.

In an open gun duel, it is hard for a DD to win vs a BB.

 

I didn't actually know that but that implies that it really is rock-scissors-paper kind of thing. Yes, they mostly need some kind of gimmick like an island or smoke to do it, same as HE spamming cruisers. In an open gun duel it is very unlikely, but it is more likely than if you try to do that against a cruiser in a DD. If a cruiser is harder for DD to outgun than a BB, something's wrong in my book.

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2 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

If a cruiser is harder for DD to outgun than a BB, something's wrong in my book.

You want bbs to outgun DDs AND CAs? They do. You might want to switch ammo type to increase your dmg output to DDs. 

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