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TheCinC

Various suggestions

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I've previously posted a number of suggestions elsewhere, but I have a few more and think this deserves its own topic. Feel free to respond, with constructive criticism or agreement, or add your own suggestions here. As for my own thoughts, I've tried to be as constructive as possible. I like this game, especially the look of it and if anything, the battles are too short. But there is always room for improvements, and these are some of my thoughts.

 

Cheating

 

-cheating should be addressed, by making it as difficult as possible and banning people who use cheats (it is always extremely discouraging when people can cheat in a game, even if they don't, the knowledge that they could be cheating makes it less fun to play a game). I'm hearing that the aim mod has been made compatible with the current version of the game. Even if that is not true, at some point someone will figure something out, so it should always remain a top priority to deal with such things. (I'm not saying nothing is being done, on the contrary, thanks for addressing it with the last update, just want to encourage staying on top of this issue)

 

Matchmaking

 

-matchmaking should allow only one tier up OR down at most. There can be huge differences between two consecutive tiers. Hell, there can be huge differences between ships on the same tier (Kongo vs New York for example). If this means a slightly longer wait before entering a game, I'm willing to accept that. Also, creating smaller groups, or sometimes creating groups consisting solely of battleships, would be fine too, especially for (pre-) ww1 era ships, that would even be historically correct. There is a major drawback to being the bottom tier ship. You can't contribute as much and the game is less fun that way. Worse, as you progress, you keep running into that same situation. When you finally have that Kongo that someone else used to beat you with, someone else has another ship that is still better than yours. It makes the game much less enjoyable as you are always the underdog, until you finally reach top tier. The more noticeable it is, the less fun the game becomes.

-mm should not compensate for giving one side a much better ship by throwing the other side a few extra ships. This can quickly lead to lopsided battles, because the 'better' ship can not bring its fire power to bear quickly enough.

-mm should never allow only one side to have a carrier. Either both get one, or neither. A battleship, although it pains me to say this, is not compensation for a carrier.

-if possible, mm should also look at your battle rating for that particular ship and your upgrades, etcetera. If I go into battle with my brand-new stock battleship, it is ww1 vintage. I have no business fighting ships that are two tiers above me, fully fitted out, have fully trained captains, gold ammo, etcetera.

 

Modules/upgrades

 

-I would like for carrier air groups to be something that can be selected in the loading screen or at the start of a battle. It seems really odd that this is somehow an upgrade and that it costs you money to change things around. As a result of not being able to change things before or during battle, carriers end up with mostly fighters, doing nothing but chasing around scouts.

-I find it odd that ww2 era carriers have pre-war aircraft and would at least like to be able to upgrade them.

-Please don't sell gold ammo as in World of Tanks or anything that turns this game into a pay-to-win scenario. It is not necessary. If you do, please allow us to grind for gold if some items that give you an advantage can only be obtained for gold.

 

Tech tree

 

-I would welcome the addition of the South Dakota, with all previous US battleships moving down one level

-Please add AA to the Myogi. If it had existed and had been in service around WW2, it would most certainly have gotten AA. Having no AA at all during WW2 is just absurd.

-Please go easy on the Russian/Soviet/Russian tech tree, as it would be absurd to have overpowered ww2 era Soviet battleships and carriers. I'd like to see a Sovietsky Soyuz class, even if just as a premium, if just to see how it would perform against other ships, but please try not to include too many vessels that never existed. I won't have to play them if I don't want to, but I will have to play against them. I know this may be hard considering Wargaming is based in Russia and caters to a large Russian audience, but even though this is an arcade style game, many of us would appreciate some realism too. I really hope this will be a great game, but this is actually my biggest fear: that someday I'll finally have the RN ships that I want, but they'll be rendered useless by the Soviet ships that outclass them, even though the RN ships really existed, but the Soviet ships didn't. Perhaps this could be addressed by another game mode, where only historic ships are allowed?

-Since you're already adding non-existant ships, how about the cancelled Dutch WW1 battleships and WW2 battlecruisers?

-Please add the Kriegsmarine and Royal Navy as soon as possible, followed by the Italian navy. Then you have all the major WW2 navies. If you can't add a full tree, then why not add a partial one, that later gets extended?

 

 

Damage model

 

-I would like to see a major overhaul of the damage model, even if only sometime in the future or as a new game mode. Ideally, I would like all damage to be modelled realistically. Which calibre shell, which distance, which speed, which trajectory, where does it strike, what armour does it encounter, etcetera, etcetera. However, I guess that is impossible, at least in the near future. I still think it should be done, at least in time, as it would potentially draw in a completely different crowd, or at least keep people interested for a longer time.

-for now, I would like to propose that HE damage be drastically reduced at least for heavy cruisers and battleships. Those ships had armour that HE simply wouldn't penetrate. Conversely, destroyers and light cruisers should be nearly immune to AP, as they had no armour to speak of and a battleship shell would just pass straight through. For carriers, it should depend on the class, as some British carriers had extensive armour, most US carriers were almost completely without. The odds of setting a ship on fire with HE should also be drastically lowered, at least for heavy cruisers and battleships, it is completely ridiculous now. What battleship has ever been sunk by being set on fire? Not one, unless the fire started in the magazine.

-hits to steering gear should be incredibly unlikely. Those were one-in-a-million kind of hits. Not being able to manoeuvre is a death sentence. Also, on battleships at least, steering gear was usually armoured, so a shell hit to steering gear should basically be impossible.

 

Gameplay mechanics

 

-detection ranges on destroyers (for detecting them) should be increased as being unable to spot them at point blank range is ridiculous, whatever happened to radar?  Destroyers may be compensated by giving them a default skill that allows them to know when they are detected. I've lost a number of my destroyers while trying to close with the enemy, thinking I am undetected, only for an enemy or even a group of enemies to fire on me and destroy me as I tried to lay down a smoke screen and hide behind it. Destroyers should be nimble, difficult to spot, but very, very weak. They should have to move constantly and the RNG should favour them, especially against battleship shells. Destroyers could also get an extra bonus for the RNG roll when being fired on at long distance. If a battleship fires a salvo reasonably close to a destroyer that is moving flat out, or when I just fire each turret somewhere along its course, I can still hit a destroyer, even at that distance.

-secondary batteries on battleships and cruisers should be slightly better, with increased range, or it should be possible to fire them manually, as dealing with destroyers with your main battery is quite hard to do even at close range. There should be a certain range beyond which destroyers would be toasted automatically, as it is absurd how close they can get now.

-torpedoes should probably be balanced further (yes, I mean nerfed) or at least it should be impossible for any vessel to unload dozens and dozens of torpedoes at once, never mind again and again. A longer reload time would already help a lot there, it is ridiculously short on some ships. Also, there should not be an infinite supply of torpedoes on any ship, as it leads to torpedo spam. A torpedo attack should be well thought out and prepared, not a continuous barrage, hoping to hit something, anything.

-bulges and other torpedo protection systems should count for more, especially on battleships. Even some of the older battleships, especially when upgraded, should have additional resistance against torpedoes.

-heavy cruisers should have the repair hp option as well as battleships, even if only once or twice, with more time in between and less xp regained. They were considered capital ships for a reason and many survived very difficult battles.

-while firing torpedoes, from ships or bombers, the lead indicator should be visible by default. For bombers, the process of setting up an attack could be improved. Somehow, whatever I do, manual attack or not, I barely hit anything. Mostly my planes end up within the area where they have to start their attack, turn back, start another run, only by now the ship has moved so I have to cancel the attack. But by now I've lost one or more planes, so the attack ends up going nowhere.

-torpedoes should be a bit more visible, especially to battleships. The detection range is so short, it is often completely useless. A slight increase in this range could lead to a better chance of avoiding a full spread of torpedoes.

-manoeuvrability on battleships and cruisers could be slightly better, currently it can be very hard to avoid torpedoes or you run in to an island while dodging one group of torpedoes because your turning circle is ridiculously huge at any speed, then get hit by another volley as you try to reverse

-lookouts should do their duty or we should allow them to be shot. All I get is that annoying siren when I am already too close to an island with my battleship. A lookout should inform me of such a thing in time. I would like a proper lookout, that calls out: "torpedoes to port," "island to starboard," "collision course, enemy/friendly vessel", "torpedo bombers, port bow", "incoming fire" and so forth. By giving a direction, it allows me to turn more quickly without having to look around for myself and only have to check the direction I am changing my course to. For those that don't want or need it or just find it annoying, it should be possible to turn it off.

 

Maps and game modes

 

-there should be more maps, many more maps, to keep the game interesting in the longer run. Playing the same map over and over again, with the same ship, in order to accrue enough XP to get to that even better ship, can quickly become a drag, but give us enough maps and it won't be as noticeable. Even a large ocean map could have many different flavours, with different weather, cloudy skies, rain, higher waves, etcetera. New maps featuring a channel, or a real coastal area, would be nice.

-maps should be larger if that is possible. (not sure if that can be done this engine, but I highly recommend making this a priority in improving the engine.)

-there should be more space in between obstacles, as everyone and the AI keeps running into islands

-there should be more time to achieve objectives as there are too many draws and losses because a team forgets to cover their own base and then the one remaining enemy destroyer caps

-introducing night battles using radar would be awesome and would be historically correct. The Japanese were especially adept at night battles, even though their radar was non-existent to poor.

-battles could last about 5 minutes longer, we're seeing a lot of draws. That may be historically correct, but it is also boring. This is an arcade game, if anything should work that way, it should be this.

-game objectives could be looked at. Quite often you see one team wiping the floor with the other team, only for a single remaining destroyer to slip into the cap zone and win the game for its team, hiding and manoeuvring to survive long enough. On one hand, it is neat if you can pull off a win under such circumstances, on the other, it makes absolutely no sense. Controlling a random point at sea for an arbitrary amount of time has absolutely nothing to do with winning a naval battle, especially if the rest of the fleet is sunk. How about escorting a ship or convoy of ships and then intercepting raiders? How about a coastal bombardment mission (with a certain target to destroy or amount of damage to be done, perhaps even with then having to withdraw with x amount of hp intact) and having the other team intercept them? How about a Channel dash, like the Germans did with Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen, or the Tokyo Express to Guadalcanal, where a group of ships has to go from one end of the map to the other? Those are real life missions. In the mean time, perhaps controlling a cap zone could be made dependant on the type of ship? The more hp you have (after taking damage into account) the more you cap. That way, a destroyer will take longer to cap and the enemy team will have a bit more time to respond, while an intact battleship will be able to do it more quickly, but be an easier target from a longer distance. If the entire team makes it into the cap zone, it should be over quickly. That at least makes a bit more sense.

-having a game mode that only allows historical ships could be really fun, especially if it forces fleets into Allies vs Axis and Japan (although for WW1, Italy and Japan would both switch sides).

-prepositioning your ship would be a great addition. If you can have about 30 seconds to confer with your team and your team then places its ships, not randomly, but in one corner, unseen to the opposing team, you can play much more tactically. As it is now, some ships can fire at you from the moment you start to move, but there should always be a phase of getting into position, trying to get the advantage. It could lead to surprise attacks from an unexpected corner, all kinds of things.

 

Interface

 

-I would like to be able to completely customize the way I use my keyboard/mouse. I would also like an in game map that immediately shows which keys are assigned to what.

-please fully integrate the ability to make recordings and make it possible to output the recording as a video, without the need for another program, so we can easily upload replays to youtube or elsewhere. Being able to convert a replay to a movie immediately is especially useful, since any update will make that replay unplayable and you can't install a previous version of the game. So not only does it make it easier for us to upload (and promote) the game, but also it enables us to rewatch certain games again and again, if we like them.

-I would like to see more details on what damage I did, both in game and after the game. After the game, I'd like to be able to see what damage other people did to me as well, preferably I'd be able to click on their name and see their full after action report.

-one reason I keep running into islands is that it is sometimes very hard to see the rudder indicator. If this were on an opaque background or something, it would be better visible. Also, it takes some ships a long time to turn and then when you turn the rudder around, it is too late.

-a better indication of where you are headed, would also be good. The compass you have is practically useless as it is, as north and south don't matter much, the status of the guns is already indicated pretty well in other ways. Much more useful would be able to see a close up view of the area immediately around you, like a zoomed-in portion of the mini map, showing which way is clear, where obstacles such as islands or ships are. That would help alleviate the tunnel vision when zoomed in and / or when manoeuvring. The mini map does this, but is less useful when making turns in close quarters.

-the indicator in the centre, which shows if your torpedoes are ready or reloading, should be more specific. If you have multiple torpedo launchers, you should be able to see which is available and which are reloading. As it is right now, if you have two on each sides and fire both of the port tubes, the indicator shows they are reloading, while in reality, you have two ready on the other side. Also, if you fire all of them in sequence, you don't get an indication which are available. The indicator on the left does show this information, but only when you've selected torpedoes. Moreover, it is confusing that they seem to show different information. Having all of this in one indicator is useful, as you need to be able to see what you need to know with one glance, especially while occupied with trying to avoid incoming torpedoes, etcetera.

 

Team play

 

-Team play should be encouraged more, this can be accomplished in part by making capping objectives something you gain xp and credits for. Currently everyone just wants to sink ships.

-If you play in a division, you should be placed on the map together. More often than not you end up on opposite sides on the map. As stated elsewhere, it would be even better if you could choose your spawn location.

-Team chat would be nice, as in WOT, so you can send messages on which ship to attack, where to go on the map, etc. (it would be super awesome if ships then also signal with signal lights or flags, semaphore..)

 

Lag?

 

-I've had some issues with lag and I am starting to hear more people complain. Perhaps this is due to server strain? Sometimes, the lag notification doesn't show, but my game still seems to freeze intermittently, for about a second at a time. This is the only really tangible problem for me so far. Changing the graphics settings doesn't seem to help or make it worse. I just noticed, in game, pretty much every time I give a command, I get the notification that there is lag. This means the lag could actually be continuous, as any input requires (and tests) the communication with the server. Spamming any key or moving my mouse or combining that, resulted in pretty consistent lag notification. (Today, 27th of may, I get lag spikes over 100 ms at IP 92.223.124.164

 

As for the Beta itself

 

-I would like some instructions on what to look for or what to do to improve the game. So far, I have found only a few minor bugs, but not one of them has come up more than once. The list of known bugs reads like a list of pretty minor things, so as far as bugs are concerned, the game can go live. As for the things listed above, aside from a few things, most probably won't be altered or certainly not in time for open beta. So why the wait? I don't like grinding very much, especially when I have to do it all over again once the game goes live/open beta. But if the closed beta is really still very necessary, I would like this game to be as good as it can be, so if you give me something specific to do, that will help improve the game, I'm all for it.

-filing a bug report should be done from in game, including screen shots and if available a recording. The few minor things I saw, I was unable to find a way from reporting it in game and creating a topic for something that will probably already have been reported seemed too much trouble for something that only occurred once. While filing a bug report, you could show us an updated list of known bugs, to avoid duplicates, or instructions as to what you need to know about a certain bug, requesting specific additional information.

 

Edited by TheCinC

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[edited]
Edited by BigBadVuk
This post has been edited by a member of the Moderation Team, due to inappropriate content.

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[RONIN]
[RONIN]
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Lots of interesting stuff there, and nice to see things properly presented.

 

I will question the proposes changes re: BB and DD interaction;

 

You want to make battleships take a lot less HE damage, have a lot less fires set on them, turn better, spot torps better, on larger maps so the BB have more room and can be even more stand offish, with larger gaps so if they do need to go somewhere they can't be ambushed, while seeing DD easier and having better secondarys that kill the DD better.

If the DD does somehow manage to launch some torps, and for whatever reason you don't spot them or turn in time, you'd like them to do less damage, take even longer to reload (low tiers I can agree on, high tiers its a long reload anyway), before running out of ammo?

That or if the destroyer does manage to get around the back, you'd like them to take ages to cap, and an extra 5mins to get back, wheras if your BB makes it into enemy cap zone you'll capture super quick?

 

In return for this the DD can have a skill he gets pretty quickly anyway, and gets hit less at long range (where he probably won't get hit anyway).

 

Sorry but I don't really think thats balance. It sounds remarkably like you want BB to be super killy indestructible death machines, while DD sail around doing nothing. 

I'm not entirely suprised to see that your preference is towards BB since 2/3 of your games are in them, but I am intrigued since the normal "OMG nerf DD" have never played DD, yet you have. However, in none of the DD you've played have you done very much damage at all - why do you think they need toning down?

 

This bemuses me, since I try to play everything (forcing myself to play the mutsuki and carriers), and have a preference for BB but my opinion is that DD are fairly UP atm, at least at high tiers. I can see why low tier DD can catch people off guard when they're new, but I've never had a huge issue with them

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[HAERT]
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Lots of interesting stuff there, and nice to see things properly presented.

 

I will question the proposes changes re: BB and DD interaction;

 

You want to make battleships take a lot less HE damage, have a lot less fires set on them, turn better, spot torps better, on larger maps so the BB have more room and can be even more stand offish, with larger gaps so if they do need to go somewhere they can't be ambushed, while seeing DD easier and having better secondarys that kill the DD better.

If the DD does somehow manage to launch some torps, and for whatever reason you don't spot them or turn in time, you'd like them to do less damage, take even longer to reload (low tiers I can agree on, high tiers its a long reload anyway), before running out of ammo?

That or if the destroyer does manage to get around the back, you'd like them to take ages to cap, and an extra 5mins to get back, wheras if your BB makes it into enemy cap zone you'll capture super quick?

 

In return for this the DD can have a skill he gets pretty quickly anyway, and gets hit less at long range (where he probably won't get hit anyway).

 

Sorry but I don't really think thats balance. It sounds remarkably like you want BB to be super killy indestructible death machines, while DD sail around doing nothing. 

I'm not entirely suprised to see that your preference is towards BB since 2/3 of your games are in them, but I am intrigued since the normal "OMG nerf DD" have never played DD, yet you have. However, in none of the DD you've played have you done very much damage at all - why do you think they need toning down?

 

This bemuses me, since I try to play everything (forcing myself to play the mutsuki and carriers), and have a preference for BB but my opinion is that DD are fairly UP atm, at least at high tiers. I can see why low tier DD can catch people off guard when they're new, but I've never had a huge issue with them

 

Good points, so allow me to elaborate.

But first, thanks for taking the time and of course these are all my own suggestions.

There are lots and lots of topics right now, many on the exact same issues, dropping off the front page almost as soon as they are posted, never to be seen again.

So I've tried to make a list of issues instead of a dozen new topics and I think I will keep adding new things to this list and maybe edit some of the proposals due to feedback.

Some of these suggestions may be contentious, others hopefully many will be able to agree on.

I've tried to put in things that I've heard other people about, that more people will be able to agree on and welcome any feedback, so thanks again!.

 

So now for the explaining.

I think that mostly BBs should be a bit more able to defend themselves at close range, while DDs should be a little less vulnerable at longer range.

 

I'm a bit of a novice with DD's, so I am usually on the receiving end and that doesn't always end well.

It baffles me that DD's can sometimes close in on BB's, on open sea, without being spotted until too late,

Whether that is due to the camouflage skill (which I haven't got yet for any of my captains) or skilful use of smokescreens, or both or something else, I don't know, but people who are more skilled at playing DD are able to pull it off.

It baffles me to have a DD appear out of nowhere at close range, launch torpedoes, turn away unscathed before I can shift my main battery (and even if I manage to fire off a quick salvo, a kill can be difficult).

Regularly I just run into a huge salvo of torpedoes, without even having spotted anyone.

This is so far removed from reality, that I don't like it very much.

 

I find it hard to adapt my tactics to deal with the surprise/ambushing DDs.

I try to be a team player, so that means I don't always stand off with my BB to provide cover from long distance, but even try to cap with my BB if needed.

That forces me to deal with DDs a bit more than I'd like and dealing with DDs on my own as a BB just can be difficult right now.

Also, while I'm not much good at it myself, torpedoes do a huge amount of damage, a skilful attack with torpedoes, by DD or torpedo bombers, can sink or cripple any ship.

However, DDs are not invisible, lookouts are not blind and there was such a thing as radar, so the way it works now makes no sense to me.

So I'd like to come up with a system that allows for battles at somewhat longer ranges.

Of course BBs shouldn't be buffed at the expense of DDs, so they need to get something in return.

When playing DDs it baffles me that they appear to be somewhat less manoeuvrable than I'd expect (although I'm only up to about tier VI/VII of US destroyers, so again, my experience is limited).

But DDs are comparatively tiny and should be very difficult, swift, manoeuvrable targets.

So if BBs get a buff, DDs should be even more nimble and fast, so they will be able to hold their own even if they have to fight at somewhat longer ranges.

As it is now, a few lucky shots can sink a DD pretty quickly, but that should be even harder to do (including giving them invulnerability to AP).

 

I think these changes would also help to achieve a more normal role for DDs.

DDs were designed as torpedo boat destroyers, hence the name.

They were nimble, in order to deal with even smaller, faster, nimble ships.

Right now, they are being used to cap (invisibly) and to ambush larger ships.

I'm not sure that should be their role, I think they should more usually take on other DDs and cruisers.

DDs are now often wasted capping, on their own, or with too little support and dying quickly unless they can get out in time.

Cruisers in turn should defend BB and CV against DDs and aircraft, scout and cap.

BBs should provide long range cover against other BBs and cruisers.

CVs should provide air cover and basically never even see an enemy ship (but the maps aren't big enough for that and that'd make it impossible to kill them unless you still have a CV with aircraft, so I see how that'd be difficult to achieve).

 

I think one thing that should be done away with would be the capping as it doesn't seem to work very well, makes no sense and right now you don't even get any credits or XP for it.

I think most people also just want to play a naval battle, not watch DDs sneak into a cap zone and lose despite taking out nearly the entire enemy team.

You can say that people who focus too much on taking out other ships aren't playing the game right, but I think most people would agree that part of the game is just the most fun and the reason they play this game.

Also, you're playing a game with random people you've never met, trying to get them to work together can be like herding cats, so the game should take that into account.

I've seen this many times in WoT and other games, where objectives are routinely ignored in favour of just killing the other team, even if points are given for doing those objectives.

Many players feel that capping is for other people and just shout verbal abuse when no one caps, even when they are not doing so either.

If you try to force people to do something that is counter-intuitive or just not as much fun, you will end up with a situation where people 'don't play the game right.'

Hence my proposals for game modes which don't depend on capping, but recreate battle scenarios from WW1 and WW2.

Edited by TheCinC

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