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Thracen

0 dd CV games are here and they are heartbreaking.

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I have had a few 0 dd games before, but none with carriers. I had queued up in my yammy, (trying to finish the legendary grind). For the 1st 10 minutes no enemy ships were spotted within the yamatos ample range. I moved with a smolly and a desmoins in the hope of CV protection. 

 

I was perma spotted by the air for the entire game and farmed by ships that were never spotted, Thunderer HE and Hindenburg HE burned and penned me down without me being able to fire more than 3 salvos in return. 

 

I'll happily admit I didn't know what to do, turn and run from the cruiser AA cover? Hide behind an island and hope I don't die in the turn or get farmed by the CV again? I'll attach the replay in the hopes of advice but I hope that this is not the future of wows. 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and please try and be kind.

20200519_113814_PJSB018-Yamato-1944_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

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Wait you had 2 cv per team in T10???

 

Divisions?

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Sorry, no that is misleading, I have edited it to make it more clear. I was talking about total number of ships. 

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15 minutes ago, Thracen said:

I have had a few 0 dd games before, but none with carriers. I had queued up in my yammy, (trying to finish the legendary grind). For the 1st 10 minutes no enemy ships were spotted within the yamatos ample range. I moved with a smolly and a desmoins in the hope of CV protection. 

 

I was perma spotted by the air for the entire game and farmed by ships that were never spotted, Thunderer HE and Hindenburg HE burned and penned me down without me being able to fire more than 3 salvos in return. 

 

I'll happily admit I didn't know what to do, turn and run from the cruiser AA cover? Hide behind an island and hope I don't die in the turn or get farmed by the CV again? I'll attach the replay in the hopes of advice but I hope that this is not the future of wows. 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and please try and be kind.

20200519_113814_PJSB018-Yamato-1944_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

Drama Queen.

 

The first targets were spotted one minute 20s after the start of battle. You even shot at them...

  • you start too slow, instead of moving forward and get into a good position, you type in chat
  • you stay in the open for too long
  • you do not go for a flanking position (islands on west would have been nice)
  • you do not try to coordinate with team
  • when you get some cover, you stop your ship and reverse, making you an easy target
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Thanks for the advice Pete although I wish it wasn't quite so scathing. My positioning was based on sticking close to my cruisers out of fear of AA.

 

So you would have suggested trying to coordinate my team to go with me down the left flank? If they didn't come with me should I have gone alone? (I'm being genuine here please don't misinterpret) 

 

I am slow in taking up position because I like to get a feel for where the enemy team is moving before commiting, especially in a yammy because once you commit to a position you cannot easily get out.

 

Which position would have been good, as you suggest?

 

I don't think I ever really found cover since the Thunderer came round on the left flank. I tried reversing round the corner for more cover. 

 

I did say in my message I got about 3 salvos off, you are right however I wasn't accurate with the timings.

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Worse game was yesterday when I was the only one BB in Yamato. As soon as I started I knew that I will be no 1 target for the whole enemy team. So I went all yolo in. 

Still got A and B caps before got burned down and finally rammed by Moskva. All with 4 dds spamming torps all over the place. More luck then skill that survived that long though. Unfortunately my team died on the other flank and then it was quick. 

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The left flank would have given your cover and forced the enemy to move.

Yes, going alone would have been hard in case the CV focusses you, but would have been better than getting farmed in the open.

 

Certain maps allow for certain starting moves without much risk.

On this map and your starting position, this would have been the course for the western islands.

 

Had you gone west with one or two ships and your other ships stayed east, you could have gotten the Thunderer into a crossfire.

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Personally, after that Kurfust of yours bailed your flank, and if I was in the same situation as you, would be to F9 those 3 cruisers and tell them that we should all join that lemming train or at the very least pull further away from the cap.

 

It was kinda obvious that you had no one scouting on your flank, so you shouldn't have charged in to join the CAs near the cap. Remember you were the only BB there, cause of the scummy Kurfurst (whom I would have reported for bailing the flank), which makes you a) the best target and b) no one is around to take over the tanking. There is a difference between tanking damage and foolhardily throwing yourself to death. There were about 5 ships shooting at you, 3 CAs and 2 BBs if I recall correctly. By charging up you put yourself in a position where you made it easier for the enemies to hit you. In fact the CAs shouldn't even be near the cap too. In a situation where you have no information, it would be better for all of you to play safe. Let the enemy push and show themselves. Stay further away so that its harder for them to hit you, even if you are being perma spotted. 

 

Honestly this has got nothing to do with the CV spotting you, at least not fully. A few minutes into the game, you would have known the following:

a) My CV is not spotting for me and is playing on the other flank;

b) The enemy CV is playing on this flank, spotting me for the enemy team;

c) I am unable to see the enemy; and

d) The enemy ships outnumber my ships on this flank and that %$#@ Kurfurst bailed.

 

So base on this, you should have adjusted your playstyle to a defensive one, not offensive. IMO 2 ways to go about it. Either:

 

a) Give up on the A cap and join the lemming train at C and pray some miracle will happen. Alternatively, join the lemming train at C and lead the push. Since almost all your ships are there, there is a high chance of it working. Remember the lemming train need to be led. If they see someone with balls moving forward, they would usually (though not 100% of the time) join you in pushing. Then after running down C, flank to B, A; or

b) Play around in the spawn area of A and B and shoot at the enemy ships that try to push in. Meanwhile try to politely encourage the lemming train at C to push forward. 

 

If you watched how the enemy team played they basically did what I described above. They let you push forward and with the added bonus of their CV spotting, they just farmed you and you gave it to them.

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I'll disagree with Pete here. I think sailing around H,I 4,5,6 would be a better position. Going west, while there is some cover, would trap you between that huge island on the border and those islands. Also exposes you to more fire. Looping around H,I 4,5,6 will force the enemy to expose themselves to engage you. Plus those islands from the 5 line can help block LOS and provide some cover since its harder to lob shells over them.

 

But yeah like what he said never reverse in a BB, especially when you are getting focused by HE fire. Should have just turned into that gap at F & G on the 5 line. If enemy BB is shooting AP, time the turn only after they have fired their salvo. 

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Thanks everyone, lots to think about here so I should have a better plan next time around. I was very wooly with my thinking, just thinking I should follow the cruisers in for AA. It felt like I didn't have a choice when I obviously did. 

 

I'm so used to taking my queues from a teams dds without them I felt pretty lost. 

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5 minutes ago, Thracen said:

I'm so used to taking my queues from a teams dds without them I felt pretty lost. 

I've had games with no DDs and no CVs. Those were a pain to play :Smile_veryhappy:

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I don't mind games with no dds AND no cvs since spotting is equal whichever flank you are on. In fact I very much like them in a cruiser it effectively kick starts the late game where cruisers have the most influence. 

 

However we all know how painful a spotting imbalance can be, it is one thing for a dd to get detonated in minute 2, to never have had those 2 minutes in the first place is even worse!

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While your lemmings were on H line you pushed to F line, of course you got farmed. When you are on the weak side you cannot push in, especially not into double Thunderer + Hinden + Henri (later). There is no point to hug cruisers, you are plane detected anyway. There is no defense against planes.

 

I would have gone towards 1-2 line and played super defensive. When they start focusing just turn around and kite while taking potshots. If you go further away they cannot farm you over the islands and have to come forward a bit. If the CV would start focusing you so be it, it takes a lot of time to kill a BB. Just kite towards J1 and waste his time so your team has more freedom. Instead of complaining in all-chat you could have pointed out to your lemmings that they outnumber the enemy and should push together. Also, ask your CV for scouting on the weak side as the strong side didn't use the advantage and just sat in the back.

I don't understand why you would want to have torpedo screening when you yourself said at the beginning there is 0 DDs in this battle.

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On 5/19/2020 at 8:27 PM, Thracen said:

I don't mind games with no dds AND no cvs since spotting is equal whichever flank you are on. In fact I very much like them in a cruiser it effectively kick starts the late game where cruisers have the most influence. 

 

However we all know how painful a spotting imbalance can be, it is one thing for a dd to get detonated in minute 2, to never have had those 2 minutes in the first place is even worse!

There are ways to deal with it/ avoid it. Being able to get timely information to setup your play is much better IMO.

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Use the conventional IJN Yamato tektix and reverse paddle so far back to fall off the map itself. 

 

 

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