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steveraptor

KM CVs first look

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Copy pasted this from the main CV thread since il probably won't get any discussion going there:

 

Ok so I just watched Flamus videos that showcases the new KM CVs.

 

Seems that WG tweaked some numbers around and overall the line looks interesting:

 

DB:

 

Don't know how the reticle and drop behavior look like, but number-wise, they seem to be a worse version of IJN DBs.

 

TB:

 

Highest alpha in the game, T6 drops 2x8000 damage, will be pretty fine vs T5-6 BBs since they are sluggish, TB are also fairly fast. However they will probably be useless against anything else.

T-X drop 3x102000.

 

Rockets:

 

Hard to judge at this point since a lot of info is missing, we don't know how the reticle looks like and the rocket dispersion. T-X rockets seem to be AP TiTs.

 

Armor wise:

 

Turtle back armor, Parasval is pretty much immune to citadel hits and Richtofen has BB armor and 50mm ice breaker.

 

Secondaries:

 

Starting from tier 8, 7km secondaries, 7.4km at tier X, GZ 105mm stat wise.

 

I think WG is encouraging more aggressive plays with those CVs, we will see if it ends up a meme or something that is actually viable....

 

Overall, the line looks fresh and different from the rest, which is very nice.

 

Also the plane art looks fantastic, 10/10, especially on Parasval, the planes look AMAZING. big kudos to the art team.

 

What are your thoughts about them?

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I haven't watched the showcase, but I'm a little worried about the torps.

I think they might be too slow, especially since IIRC they also come with a very long arming distance, which becomes the worst if you try to buff their speed at all. 

 

Not sure though. Just initial thoughts. 

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I watched the video, Interesting does not quite cover what I was thinking.....OMFG does though :Smile_facepalm:

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25 knot torpedoes with ~740 m arming distance will just not work though. There is a reson why no one used the 4 torp Haku planes post nerf and why it got removed entirely, because nice damage and speed means jack if you have a 1.3 km arming distance that can be avoided by everything. These german torps are more of the same but they get shafted in both areas, having both abysmally slow torps and a long arming distance. 

 

I mean for reference:

Midway: With torp acceleration- 40 knots, 591 m arming distance.

Hakury: 50 knots, 671 m arming distance.

Audacious: 35 knots base, 493 m arming distance.

 

So the Richthofen gives up all that for 10200x3 damage torps. Unless they have some sort of amazing spread or really fast aiming they will be a pain to try and get to work.

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Am 17.5.2020 um 12:53, steveraptor sagte:

What are your thoughts about them?

The planes look gorgeous. Fast and agile planes are fun to play, but:

 

- These torps are so slow and late arming, they only work as a very specialised weapon against AFK-players.

- AP-rockets that overpen DDs and shatter on torpedo-belts only do damage against Smolenks and alike.

  The citadel-damage is more like DD-AP.

- Bombers fly higher than usual, that means you either can evade flak or look down to aim, but not both at the same time.

- The carriers themselves are really ugly IMHO, Zeppelin-variants with some boxes at the isle.

 

I'm ok with CVs that cannot attack DDs, but there should be something to make them interesting.

 

Beware, they are work in progress and it's the first public testing version, so there will be changes.

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3 hours ago, Miragetank90 said:

I haven't watched the showcase, but I'm a little worried about the torps.

I think they might be too slow, especially since IIRC they also come with a very long arming distance, which becomes the worst if you try to buff their speed at all. 

 

Not sure though. Just initial thoughts. 

I agree, its one of the things that worried me the most about them.

I think they should keep the speed, but reduce the arming time.

Because at this point, if you get TA on them you get the kaga torp aim time only with 25 knots speed instead of 50...

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53 minutes ago, steveraptor said:

What do you think about the secondaries and the ship armor scheme?

 

I fought the T10(Richtofen?) today whilst in Mino. He was pushing to me head on from mid range. Ofc, the deck armour is more than enough to resist damage from Mino, but there is a weakspot between the bow and the top of the flight deck, a kind of boxy area where the hangar is. I aimed there and just chunked 5k,6k volleys one after another, then finished him off with torps. 

 

Didn't get to see much secondary action as he wasn't able to show too much side. He would have just melted faster. 

 

He managed to attack me with AP rockets from relatively broadside, but it all overpenned I think, I only took between 2-3k damage on that drop.

 

 

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My thoughts:

AP rockets: Remains to be seen how good it is. One of the great question marks.

Torpedos: On the positive side, these are the first torps with counterplay, I guess. You are looking at flying Shima, high damage, long reaction time. If you eat these, you deserve it mostly. Naturally, for a CV, this is pretty poor.

AP bombers: GZ bombers are notoriously poor. And these are such bombers, seemingly. 

Secondaries: Keeps DD from point blank torping you, I guess. Not GZ level of memery though, as you lack the 15 cm guns that actually pen more than cruisers.

Armour: Cool, but when it comes down to this, you got issues. Good vs 8-9-9 divs though, I suppose. Then again, not like GZ survvives those easily.

 

Not amazed really. Also, Weser looks meme, the higher tiers look blocky and crude like high tier KM BBs. 

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18 hours ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

My thoughts:

AP rockets: Remains to be seen how good it is. One of the great question marks.

Torpedos: On the positive side, these are the first torps with counterplay, I guess. You are looking at flying Shima, high damage, long reaction time. If you eat these, you deserve it mostly. Naturally, for a CV, this is pretty poor.

AP bombers: GZ bombers are notoriously poor. And these are such bombers, seemingly. 

Secondaries: Keeps DD from point blank torping you, I guess. Not GZ level of memery though, as you lack the 15 cm guns that actually pen more than cruisers.

Armour: Cool, but when it comes down to this, you got issues. Good vs 8-9-9 divs though, I suppose. Then again, not like GZ survvives those easily.

 

Not amazed really. Also, Weser looks meme, the higher tiers look blocky and crude like high tier KM BBs. 

Are you certain the AP bombers are the same as GZ? that is, with that round reticle?

I really hope not, because if they are, i see little point playing that line at all...

 

I'm fine with them being an inferior version of IJN bombers, but they should at least have the "classic" reticle.

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@steveraptorNo, they are not like GZ (but still work in progress):

They fly higher than IJN and dive straight down.

 

Unbenannt.jpg.3b0ae643639c76e64605eeba202ae754.jpg

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29 minutes ago, Smeggo said:

@steveraptorNo, they are not like GZ (but still work in progress):

They fly higher than IJN and dive straight down.

 

Unbenannt.jpg.3b0ae643639c76e64605eeba202ae754.jpg

Nice, do you also have a picture with the rockets reticle as well?

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2 hours ago, Smeggo said:

Rockets (currently) have a broad ellipse.

 

Unbenannt.jpg.4bb4ec8c2589ac134fa411040caa361e.jpg

Is this the same for Richthofen as well?

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Vor 18 Minuten, steveraptor sagte:

Is this the same for Richthofen as well?

Same on all four techtree-CVs, yes

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On 5/18/2020 at 5:52 PM, Smeggo said:

Same on all four techtree-CVs, yes

If they sport AP rockets, having a broad target ellipse - that allows for hits across a broadside target - is the only one to make sense.

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I just watched Flambass go to town in the upcoming tier VIII German CV, the August von Parseval, by the way. The damage he did with AP rockets against cruisers was downright brutal. Those rockets didn't seem very effective against destroyers or battleships, though. As for the AP bombs, they citadelled a Bismarck easily enough but failed to do the same to a Champagne over at least two well-aimed drops, one of which landed right between the smoke stacks. The torpedoes seemed to be very reliable damage-dealers over time, to both cruisers and battleships.

 

Spoiler

 

 

This one battle obviously gave nowhere near enough statistics for any outright conclusions, but at least it gave a hint of what to expect. Destroyers can look forward to not having to deal with HE rockets when fighting the new German CV:s, I guess.

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I see no Stukas in the picture of the presumably German aircraft carriers on today's loading screen. Does that mean we will actually have Stukas, this time around...?

:Smile_smile:

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On 7/8/2020 at 12:38 PM, Procrastes said:

The damage he did with AP rockets against cruisers was downright brutal.

Until cruiser learn to angle their ship (which is already happening at T8+ for most players).

 

Unless you have a flat broadside, making citadels is almost impossible.

 

I know that just the fact that making them angle give opportunities to surface ships, but it is far less punishing than in BB, and I can count the times people were actually able to capitalize on a cruiser giving the broadside because of my plane with one hand.

 

Bombs are the only real damage dealers. Torps are nice for guaranteed damage, and AP rocket are serviceable on most of the ship if you aim properly, but don't expect much damage unless you find the one cruiser which ignore you or beach itself, and then you send him to port very quickly.

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On 7/11/2020 at 3:54 PM, orgerix said:

Until cruiser learn to angle their ship (which is already happening at T8+ for most players).

 

Unless you have a flat broadside, making citadels is almost impossible.

 

I know that just the fact that making them angle give opportunities to surface ships, but it is far less punishing than in BB, and I can count the times people were actually able to capitalize on a cruiser giving the broadside because of my plane with one hand.

 

Bombs are the only real damage dealers. Torps are nice for guaranteed damage, and AP rocket are serviceable on most of the ship if you aim properly, but don't expect much damage unless you find the one cruiser which ignore you or beach itself, and then you send him to port very quickly.

This largely depends on the cruiser. There is many cruisers you can't citadel even if you are flat and others you can cit at an angle (e.g. mino).

 

Honestly it isn't even that easy to find an attack path that is actually flat 90° - even on standing still targets. You would be surprised how often you are 10° off.

 

A good practice is slingshotting to the flank of a cruiser or going for him after dropping something else to mask your approach a bit or catch them offguard. It would help if the attack planes would get a nice HP boost, so that we can actually do that.

 

Occasionally you will find a bowtanking cruiser and that is also decent, but you might wanna bring the bombs on that one rather.

 

However AP bombs being the real & reliable damage dealer - at least for the parseval - is more a fantasy than anything else. A fantasy like dealing 28.2k damage in a single pass with AP rockets, which of course can happen.

 

Will you sometimes blow to 100k dmg in under 5 minutes? Yes. Will you sometimes be under 20k dmg because your shots don't cit, go wide or whatever? Yes.

 

You will average 1 cit per drop even on still cruiser targets which puts that drop in the realm of 10k, which is not that impressive

 

Definitely looking forward to the T10 KM CV just so I can't be uptiered anymore, which is always a bane for cv weaponry.

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On 7/9/2020 at 8:04 AM, Procrastes said:

Does that mean we will actually have Stukas, this time around...?

If so, then on Loewenhardt. Yes, it'd be Pay2Stuka.

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4 minutes ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Yes, it'd be Pay2Stuka.

I already did that, when I bought the Zeppo. But no Stukas for me... :Smile_sceptic:

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On a more general note, when I press LMB the first time during an attack, the aiming reticle changes colour  to a light yellow which is much harder to distinguish from the target and the sea surrounding it. On a number of occasions this has had the effect of making the aiming reticle invisible during the crucial attack phase. Personally, I find this to be less than ideal. I'm not sure if this is a feature of the Kriegsmarine carriers in particular, or if it's part of a general change in one of the latest patches, or if I'm just imagining things and it has always been this way. :Smile_smile:

 

As for the KM CV:s themselves, I just tried out the Weser. My impression so far is that a set-up with AP rockets and AP boms is by far a less versatile one than if you have HE on at least the rockets. Also, I had problems with aiming the bombs, but that is probably just me being crap. The torpedoes seem reliable but weak.

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