Venezia and her SAP... Simply too powerful ?

[Riggerby]

As the time of writing, Venezia is currently holding the title as both the highest average damaging and the highest average winrate tech tree cruiser on EU, Second only to Stalingrad overall. Also worth noting she has a higher damage output than 4 of the 9 tier 10 battleships. Kremlin, Monty, Kurry and even Yamato. I feel as now enough time has passed since she arrived that her fans need to stop living in this delusion she is only over performing so much because 'the good players got her first'. 

 

Her SAP is just too strong. Constantly doing 10-15k against anything she wishes is ludicrous. The total and complete disregard she has for any form of angling or counter play. The total ease she can laugh at dodging and juking due to that rail gun esque 950m/s velocity and god arcs, the way she weirdly seems to not care about damage saturation, slamming you for 10-15k salvos again and again and again and again and again. Its just ridiculous.

 

She offers extreme damage in a reliable manner no other ship in the game can match. When angled / kiting in the hands of an experienced player. She's just impossible to counter. You can only return to her an absolute fraction of what she can dish out yourself. She's agile. She can fire from range where RNG helps her and she has that annoying armor scheme which makes her hyper tanky when angled yet a floating overpen when showing side. Watching all the high level clan battles lately has just been such a bore. Its literally just entire teams of Venezias vs entire teams of Venezias, Just seeing which side can smash the other with the 15k volleys first. She's entered a state of balans where now the only real counter to a Venezia is other Venezia's. There's not a ship in this game that can withstand her SAP. Even Kremlin gets melted by her.

She seriously needs toning down. She is a ship which punishes players who don't even make mistakes. She just makes for poor quality gameplay in her current state. Even if nerfing the SAP requires buffing her AP, do it. I just want to see armour and angling actually be relevant again.

 

 

[B051LjKo]

Yes, finally a good cruiser. Let us nerf it asap.

[Cyclops_]

Wait till the new Russian Cruisers at T10 have been around a few weeks, you might just change your mind.

 

[B051LjKo]

Venezia is a ship with no radar, no hydro and poor concelement. It requires teamwork and spotting to be effective. It can not tank, fires every 20 seconds, it can not set fires, and it does not do 15k volleys on angled targets.

 

Let us nerf it asap.

[Elypse201]

36 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

As the time of writing, Venezia is currently holding the title as both the highest average damaging and the highest average winrate tech tree cruiser on EU

Well yes for a simple reason: Look at the amount of battles. Venezia has atm. 546 293 battles in total the next tech tree cruiser who near to that is the Henri with 1 992 850  almost 4 as much.

37 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

Also worth noting she has a higher damage output than 4 of the 9 tier 10 battleships. Kremlin, Monty, Kurry and even Yamato.

Well...yes ? Everyone plays those 4 ships so the stats will be dragged down significantly. Same example with the Smolensk. Many people playing her because she is OP in what she does. I didn't touched my Smolensk since release i played 7 battles in her. In the beginning i was just average, but now i am more and more unicum in her without playing.

40 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

I feel as now enough time has passed since she arrived that her fans need to stop living in this delusion she is only over performing so much because 'the good players got her first'.

Never read anywhere someone is saying that.

40 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

Her SAP is just too strong. Constantly doing 10-15k against anything she wishes is ludicrous. The total and complete disregard she has for any form of angling or counter play.

If you showing broadside 10-20k is normal, but that's the same amount of DMG you get showing any other CA broadside.
Also she has improved pen angles for her SAP.
You can angle against the SAP it is not impossible.

42 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

She offers extreme damage in a reliable manner no other ship in the game can match. When angled / kiting in the hands of an experienced player.

Fun fact every ship in the game is extreme to take down when played by an experienced player.

44 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

Watching all the high level clan battles lately has just been such a bore. Its literally just entire teams of Venezias vs entire teams of Venezias

Yes agree on that, but that's because there is no other kiting cruiser ingame who can do the job as good as her in competitive. Thank WG for the "fun and engaging clan battle season". First they nerf every other cruiser and then bring out a CB session.

46 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

She seriously needs toning down. She is a ship which punishes players who don't even make mistakes. She just makes for poor quality gameplay in her current state. Even if nerfing the SAP requires buffing her AP, do it. I just want to see armour and angling actually be relevant again. 

laughs in every HE Spammer atm

If you push in the current meta you will melt. But don't worry soonTM balanced russian cruisers will arrive.
I don't like the Venezia. She has no Teamutility and is imo. only good in competitive. The lack of Hydro,(defAA), a normal Smoke, Radar is just to awfull and i don't play her in randoms. There are other Cruisers who can do the job way better then her.
Do i think she needs a nerf ? Well if WG decides to nerf Venezia which other Cruiser can counter a Stalingrad oder the new russian bias fantasy ships ?
Imo. she is fine if you give broadside you get punished, if you play well in her you get rewarded no big deal.

[Cambera_1]

SAP is seriously hazardous to CLs and DDs. Yet SAP does bounce off a heavily angled ship. (Maybe not a destroyer or a RN cruiser ) 

 

Venezia is a strong ship, with its 15 barrels, a sheer shotgun effect makes it so much more dangerous to light ships. 

 

But a nerf to SAP just to balance Venezia would have a ridiculous effect on the rest of a line of cruisers that only seems to be have a single good ship and a couple of half decent ones.

 

Any nerf must be handled with extreme care. 

 

SAP is a genie who has been let out of the bottle. Care needed.

[Riggerby]

I get the impression everyone is just perfectly ok with Venezia being blatantly overpowered because 'Atleast its not Russian'. Seems the Venezia is the communities broken darling child.

[Riggerby]

 

19 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Yes, finally a good cruiser. Let us nerf it asap.

 

What kind of comment is this? There are tons and tons of good cruisers?. Cruiser are arguably the strongest class (Bar CV) ingame in this current meta. There are many of a good cruiser, But Venezia is not a ''good cruiser'', Shes far and away the best cruiser and blows the performance of the others out of the water.

[B051LjKo]

She punishes HE spammers better than any other ship in the game. A ship that is not hiding behind the island, and can push due to her gimmick smoke.

 

Nothing to nerf there. We need more ship like thar.

[MrWastee]

for the lulz

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/122095-new-sheriff-in-town-soon/

 

on a note:

guess why venezia like pushed out any competetors in most cb setups. basically this season is haku, stalin, venezia only. with a few exceptions with halland, a smol, and very unfrequent, a dm, moskva or hindi inbetween

[Wulf_Ace]

Yeah so OP, that everybody plays her in CB, hmm wait they are not.

 

I rather play my Des Moines with good tankines, fast reload then 20 sec "battleship" venezia.

 

 

[MrWastee]

2 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Yeah so OP, that everybody plays her in CB, hmm wait they are not.

 

[...]

 

 

...well, i guess our perception contradicts on this lol

[Riggerby]

7 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

She punishes HE spammers better than any other ship in the game. A ship that is not hiding behind the island, and can push due to her gimmick smoke.

 

Nothing to nerf there. We need more ship like thar.

She does not exclusively punish HE spammers though? She absolutely brutalizes everything. She out trades every single battleship ingame, bar maybe Kremlin. She absolutely nukes Neptune / Minotaur. She absolutely nukes DD's. She takes huge chunks out of AP strong cruisers like Stalingrad / Moskva / Hinden.

 

We absolutely do not need more ship like her. Non HE spammers are made of the exact same stuff as HE spammers so i am totally baffled why you are acting like she is only a counter to HE spam

[Wulf_Ace]

4 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

 

...well, i guess our perception contradicts on this lol

you see more then one-two venezias in game? in opposit where I see 4-5 stalingrads in one game.

[GarrusBrutus]

If you are of the opinion that SAP isn't broken, you're probably not a very good player. 

"you can angle against SAP", yes if you're completely bow in. Otherwise you'll just eat 10-15k volleys. And I think that it's too powerful against DDs. It's like full pens have been brought back into the game in the form of SAP. It shouldn't do more dmg to DDs than HE. 

Funny enough the only ship that seems to endure SAP reasonably well is..... Kremlin! Surprise surprise. 

[Riggerby]

3 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Yeah so OP, that everybody plays her in CB, hmm wait they are not.

 

 

We must be living in a different dimension. Venezia was the most common ship i seen by an absolute mile. There were an absolute ton of teams that were even all Venezias with a Haku.

 

[MrWastee]

3 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

you see more then one-two venezias in game? in opposit where I see 4-5 stalingrads in one game.

.... that 4 sure not! mostly it became at least 3 venezias per match. i guess we can come back on this after the season and the stats they will post on most used ships and such. prediction: venezia top by a mile!

[Riggerby]

1 minute ago, GarrusBrutus said:

If you are of the opinion that SAP isn't broken, you're probably not a very good player. 

"you can angle against SAP", yes if you're completely bow in. Otherwise you'll just eat 10-15k volleys. And I think that it's too powerful against DDs. It's like full pens have been brought back into the game in the form of SAP. It shouldn't do more dmg to DDs than HE. 

Funny enough the only ship that seems to endure SAP reasonably well is..... Kremlin! Surprise surprise. 

 

And lets be honest here too, Even if you angle bow in, You're still getting slammed for 8-10k into the superstructure on most ships. I completely agree on your point against DD's too. With the velocity these shells have, the punishment given to DD's being spotted for even a few seconds is just insta death at worst. And absolutely crippled at best.

 

The people who say you just need to angle against the SAP are the same plonkers who believe you can just dodge the CV rockets

[Wulf_Ace]

7 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

 

We must be living in a different dimension. Venezia was the most common ship i seen by an absolute mile. There were an absolute ton of teams that were even all Venezias with a Haku.

 

you dont even own Venezia, I hate crying on forums about things like this, oh CV are strong, venezia is strong, smolensk is strong, jesus deal with it or stop playing the game. THere are million games there to play.

[B051LjKo]

21 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

She does not exclusively punish HE spammers though? She absolutely brutalizes everything. She out trades every single battleship ingame, bar maybe Kremlin. She absolutely nukes Neptune / Minotaur. She absolutely nukes DD's. She takes huge chunks out of AP strong cruisers like Stalingrad / Moskva / Hinden.

 

We absolutely do not need more ship like her. Non HE spammers are made of the exact same stuff as HE spammers so i am totally baffled why you are acting like she is only a counter to HE spam

Neptune and Minotaur have smoke and much better concelement, DDs get punished, that is true, but again, no radar on venezia, and 12.2 concelement. And stalib deserves to get punished. Hindi is a long range spammer, with excellent he penetration and a lot of fire potencial.

 

I do not se a problem.

[Migantium_Mashum]

I am a DD main, I don't have the Venezia; However, if I have an allied Venezia supporting me I feel that I have a ship that can easily support me in any and all situations..

I prefer to see her beside me as opposed to the Smolensk.

 

Why is it lately that so many people whine about the strengths of Ships rather than learning how best to deal with them?

 

Don't you whingers, you whiners want a game that has challenges... so you face a strong ship... that's an everyday occurrence for a DD player.. adapt and overcome..

 

[Riggerby]

4 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

I am a DD main, I don't have the Venezia; However, if I have an allied Venezia supporting me I feel that I have a ship that can easily support me in any and all situations..

I prefer to see her beside me as opposed to the Smolensk.

 

Why is it lately that so many people whine about the strengths of Ships rather than learning how best to deal with them?

 

Don't you whingers, you whiners want a game that has challenges... so you face a strong ship... that's an everyday occurrence for a DD player.. adapt and overcome..

 

 

How about you enlighten me to your advice on how best to deal with a ship that out trades every other ship in the game?.

[Riggerby]

16 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

you dont even own Venezia, I hate crying on forums about things like this, oh CV are strong, venezia is strong, smolensk is strong, jesus deal with it or stop playing the game. THere are million games there to play.

 

Ah no you're right mate, Why dont we just add a Yamato that has a 1 second reload and anyone who complains about that being obviously broken just had to deal with it? Aye you're absolutely spot on pal, balance doesn't matter, just need to crack on.

[Migantium_Mashum]

4 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

 

How about you enlighten me to your advice on how best to deal with a ship that out trades every other ship in the game?.

Well I guess with only 2,251 games you might need some help I suppose.

 

If you fear her don't attack her alone, or if you fear her ask a DD that is close enough to have a go at torpedoing her, or if you fear her ensure that the area in which she sails you avoid and leave her to the BB's...

 

If you fear her so much choose an easier target.

 

 

[B051LjKo]

3 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

 

How about you enlighten me to your advice on how best to deal with a ship that out trades every other ship in the game?.

What out trade are you talking about? Des Moines will fire 3 volleys before Venezia shoots the second one? On lower health with AR that climbs to 4.