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Riggerby

The premiums that time (Updates) forgot

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[UAC]
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I only definitely agree with two grafs in the list, since I don't have the rest of the ships (I have blyska but I think she's fine), though graf spee still is fine and can work, but as for graf zeppelin I agree - OOF

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[PANEU]
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Yeah i liked my Atlanta very much (AA build ofc), i played my Flint a fair bit as well but their downfall was the introduction of Fiji and Belfast, no matter the amount of gimmick WG threw into the 2 american boats, even before the CV and IFHE rework they were just bad. Now they have no AA, and no real damage potential, they became very weak firestarters.

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6 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

(I have blyska but I think she's fine),

 

Aye, Don't get me wrong, in the hands of a solid player, like any ship she can still do very well. Just in comparison to what she once was is why i included her. In the versions of WoWS she grew up in, she was an absolute terror and extremely painful to deal with.

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Just now, kfa said:

Yeah i liked my Atlanta very much (AA build ofc), i played my Flint a fair bit as well but their downfall was the introduction of Fiji and Belfast, no matter the amount of gimmick WG threw into the 2 american boats, even before the CV and IFHE rework they were just bad. Now they have no AA, and no real damage potential, they became very weak firestarters.

 

Aye, Its a very solid point. One that applies to many on my list. Its not only the mechanics and environment changes which harm them, but the additions of new ships who can do anything they can do better. Its a great point about those 2 ships in particular.

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Sims also got powerkrept by everything, last nail in her coffin was the removal of the Operations.

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4 minutes ago, kfa said:

Sims also got powerkrept by everything, last nail in her coffin was the removal of the Operations.

This is very true. I was tempted to put her on my list. She was the first premium i bought (As it allowed access into the closed beta test) and times not done her any favors. Lackluster guns, Painfullllyyyyyyy slow torpedo's and Def AA nerf slashing her utility, She's very 'meh' indeed now.


The only saving grace with sims is the US smoke, and the fact she has a weird unique modifier that gives her more XP than other ships. The latter obviously not helping you in anyway ingame, and not helping you research anything faster since shes a premium obviously, but, a unique thing to note none the less. 

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[BOBS3]
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@Riggerby

So to summarise what appears to be your argument for many of your stated examples. 

'Please reverse IFHE and CV Rework.'

 

This might improve the performance of some premiums but would hardly solve the problems with the game. 

Going back to the the old RTS CVs without major changes would be a retrograde step.

(Please Note: This is not saying that the current situation is even OK, a full rework of CVs is needed, starting with 'What do we want CVs to do?')

I do think that the IFHE changes just need a revisit of every premium to see what was adversely affected by the changes. The USN 127mm being one area. Specific Armour, such as the Graf Spee, being another.

(Overall the IFHE changes were good, it just needs further tidying up. Will that happen? I guess not, not systematically anyway.)

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Now Hood just feels like a german BB, without the good AP grenades or protecting armor.

*edit

Also Saipan, not a CV player but it just to give that OH :etc_swear:! OH :etc_swear:! when on opposing team but now its just meh, hes gonna deplane fast.

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42 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

@Riggerby

So to summarise what appears to be your argument for many of your stated examples. 

'Please reverse IFHE and CV Rework.'

 

Not once did i say or even imply i want IFHE or CV rework to be reverted. That is not a summary of my post.

 

IFHE was a small step in the right direction of reducing the toxicity of HE spam and the CV rework is great in the sense we no longer see full health ships being deleted by CV.

 

But as with any change there are winners and there are losers. For the health of the game these changes were good things, but for the ships that were designed in those meta's, and excelled or relied upon them, when the changes happen and WG didn't adequately compensate them for what they lost in the new world they found themselves in, they simply fell into obscurity or a weak state.

 

I do not want cruisers to get their armor nerfed and IFHE patch reverted because Vanguard now struggles to overmatch, no. I want Wargaming to adequately compensate Vanguard with buffs to compensate for the fact they indirectly nerfed her.


I do not want CV rework to get reverted because Saipan is now thoroughly mediocre, i want Wargaming to actively take steps to reintroduce some better fighter mechanics and give her the strong position in the dogfighting world she once had.

 

I do not want IFHE change reverted because Atlanta / Flint took a nerf, no, i want Wargaming to either compensate them with special pen like other ships got or increase fire chance to compensate. Preferably the former as i believe fire spam is toxic and alpha from increased pen is less RNG. 

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[CATS]
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1 hour ago, Riggerby said:

I'm sure that like many, There are a gluttony of ships sat in your carousel that seem to solely exist to take up a port slot these days, and quite a shocking number of them are premiums, which is a shame because the overwhelming majority have a monetary value to them. For almost all of them, they either weren't very good to begin with, or were once great but have been rendered obsolete or poor by powercreep, mechanic changes, meta changes or all of the above.

 

Who are some of the biggest port queens?

 

  • Atlanta/Flint do fine
  • Hood is still ok
  • Texas is doing well
  • Indianapolis still got her radar and was never a super strong ship to begin with
  • Spee sisters are still strong cruisers on their Tier
  • Blyska just recently recieved some improvement and is doing fine
  • Zeppelin is still a CV
  • Saipan is still a CV
  • Vanguard needs some attention, but was never a strong BB
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[-TPF-]
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13 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

So to summarise what appears to be your argument for many of your stated examples. 

'Please reverse IFHE and CV Rework.

Well, the IFHE rework was not kind to Tier VII Cruisers or DDs. And the CV Rework was a classic example of WG rethinking part of the game without considering how people play against it. AA remains a terrible, terrible joke, and WG should not be selling anything based on its perceived AA abilities. 

 

However....  Atlanta remains ludicrously overpowered in certain game modes. I would suspect that the reason we don't have too many Tier VII operations is simply because Atlanta farms the heck out of them. And for that reason alone I don't see her getting buffed. 

 

Sims I still like. It's a quirky boat, not at all optimal, but still quick and nimble and unusual to play and play against. And if you don't like it, play Mahan - still a great ship. 

 

I will admit I don't see the point in Gallant any more, especially not with her total lack of AA and limited smokes. Icarus is so much better.

 

 

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[SHAD]
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All tier 7 premiums have been forgotten by me due to matchmaking changes, armour changes and the IFHE change.

 

tier 7 was hit very hard.

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12 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

All tier 7 premiums have been forgotten by me due to matchmaking changes, armour changes and the IFHE change.

 

tier 7 was hit very hard.

 

Its a fair point tbh mate. All the indirect nerfs are hard enough, But they're only compounded by the uptiering.


For example, You can still somewhat make Atlanta and Flint work at their tier because with IFHE they can still pen superstructures. Put them in a tier 9 game though and their range is useless, they can pen almost nothing, their AA is atrocious against tier 8 CV, their detection isn't adequate to DD hunt, they're made of absolute paper and in Flints case, just gets Radar'd to death.

 

Tier 7's, premiums and non, almost all of them are underwhelming ships with glaring flaws. They're like the ugly acne teen years of the tech tree. They just get butchered in tier 9 games.

 

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21 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

For example, You can still somewhat make Atlanta and Flint work at their tier because with IFHE they can still pen superstructures. Put them in a tier 9 game though and their range is useless, they can pen almost nothing, their AA is atrocious against tier 8 CV, their detection isn't adequate to DD hunt, they're made of absolute paper and in Flints case, just gets Radar'd to death.

You don't need IFHE to damage superstructures. And then 26mm pen achieved with IFHE is inadequate to damage T8 cruisers due to 27mm deck/upper hulls, leaving you only bow/stern to pew pew at... as long as they aren't US/Ger CA.

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Hood's now one of the best and most complete BBs in the game. Same old complaints. It's hilarious people think a BB with a 51mm deck, 127mm sides and submerged citadel has has no armour. Guns can now blap BBs in addition to everything else. All with the speed of a CA, jezz.

On 5/16/2020 at 8:04 AM, Riggerby said:

Though with the CV / AA rework, Those rocket AA launchers are about as comically useless as they were in real life

 

Montana 6km AA = 175 dps (6+2 x 1680 explosions)

Hood 5.8km AA = 227 dps (4+1 x 5600 explosions)

 

Mmm, comically useless... (Hood will farm AA Defence flags from noob CVs)

 

 

Sims will always be super stonk, these are the same complaints since release.

Spee's super strong but I'd still give her full KM BB secondaries.

Tier 7 CLs have been unfairly neutered hard, hate the extreme jump to tier 8.

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[TORAZ]
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Saipan is fine. Just requires more skill and brains to play than the average CV player can muster.

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Spee and Blyska left out is criminal. Spee needs a buff to compensate for all she loses desperately. Any buff. An amazing historic ship is left behind, shame utter shame. 

 

Indy, Hood need a touch also.

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[SKRUB]
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Historical ship don't get a preferential treatment in term of balance and it's a good thing.

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[NWP]
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I plan to play the next ranked season only with Indi and Atlanta. So I'll see how they perform during that period.

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[CHAR]
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Since those old premiums make barely any money for WG, they're not gonna fix/buff them. Why bother when that work could be put into releasing new premiums. Powercreep is an easy way for the devs to make new content for the game.

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[RO-RN]
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I would like to add:

-Tier 7 soviet destroyer leningrad, or to say better the whole soviet dd line that leads to khabarovsk except tashkent-needs a lower reload and faster turret traverse and for the sake of god remove  those crappy 4 km torpedoes this aint 2015.(I know leningrad gets 8 but why minsk and gnevny do not?)

-Tier 8 french BB Gascogne-this thing need better dispersion and a reload booster.

-Tier 9 japanese cruiser Azuma-needs the destroyer like dispersion that all the other IGN cruisers get and a lower reload or give 1 torpedo launcher on each side.

-Tier 6 pan asian cruiser Huang He-give it better range,lower the reload a bit and make it possible to mount the hydro and the torpedo reload booster in separate slots.

-Tier 6 and tier 7 italian premium cruisers( The duca aosta and abruzzi)-need 30 mm HE pen to compensate for the low HE alpha and low fire chance, give it the italian smoke generator.

PS:Boise/Nueve de Julio need better range, 13.6 is....atrocious give them 15 km range.

 

 

 

 

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[BYOB]
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All fair points here, but as long as WG employs people who do not play the game and only look at superunicum statistics we will never get any buffs for these ships.

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