0.9.4 0.9.4 - Submarine battle

[YabbaCoe]

 

Starts: Wed. 27 May 06:00 CEST (UTC+2)

Ends: Wed. 24 Jun. 06:00 CEST (UTC+2)

 

Submarines are arriving and will be playable in a separate battle type! This will enable us to continue testing the new ship type while we adjust the balance and mechanics on the live server by involving more participants, and won’t affect the other battle types. Only once we're done with all these steps will we be able to decide on the final fate of the new unit type.

 

Players will be able to enter Submarine Battles playing submarines and Tier VI ships.

 

 

Submarines are fragile but stealthy hunters, capable of traveling not only horizontally, but also diving into the depths. The diving depth of a submarine affects her detectability, viewing range, and range of possible interactions with other submarines and ship types.

The main armament carried by submarines is acoustic homing torpedoes. You can launch an attack from any depth, and submarine-specific mechanics—sonar pings—will help you increase the potential effectiveness of your torpedo salvos. Keep an eye on your battery charge and use sonar pings wisely. Torpedoes can ascend from the depths and hit an enemy only with the help of an active effect from a sonar ping. If you run out of battery charge, reduce your speed to 1/4 or ascend to the surface level to recharge it.

Keep an eye on enemy destroyers and cruisers. All destroyers, as well as cruisers VI Dallas, VI Budyonny, VI Leander, and VI Perth carry depth charges. These are an effective weapon that can hit submarines hiding underwater.

 

[Azalgor]

Submarines to become somewhat implementable need the oxygen mechanick back, as it was the only thing that alowed many ships to somewhat have a chance.

[poopooo]

This is my opinion of how submarines should be to be better implemented in the game.

 

1: First of all what I would do would be to eliminate the guided torpedoes completely, since it is not that it is very realistic and apart it is something that unbalances too much.

 

2:The second would be to give torpedoes an activation distance equal to that of torpedo planes, since in reality the submarines would not withstand an explosion of their own torpedoes at close range.

 

3:The third thing is that the submarines could only launch the torpedoes on the surface or at the depth of the periscope, at a deeper depth it would be impossible to shoot and it would only serve to be able to pass more hidden.

 

4:The fourth would be to give the submarines a different camouflage depending on the dive, for example on a surface of around 6 or 7km, at a periscope depth of around 2,5 or 3km, and at a deeper depth gradually decrease from 2,5km.

 

5:Fifth, the way to target the torpedoes would be essentially like the destroyers, marking the ship and leaving the line of where it will be if it follows the same course, apart they could be allowed to fire all the torpedoes in a fan or fire them one by one as the British destroyers.

 

6:Sixth, to give a speed to the submarines based on historical data, for example the Type VII like the U-69 had a speed of 17.7 knots on the surface and 7.6 knots submerged, the cachalot is practically equal in speed and the S-2 It has a speed of 19 knots on the surface and 9 knots submerged, so that submarine players should go on the surface as long as possible to reach all corners of the map.

 

Then to give them a little more variety between countries, what could be done that depending on the nation, the submarines submerged faster, torpedoes of different damage, range and activation time, etc. Besides, as the fellow above says, it would be good if the submarine depended on oxygen, and to add to the fact that you could be completely invisible being at maximum depth and standing still, so you could avoid the destroyers unless they patrol the area for a long time and you you will be forced to emerge to recover oxygen.
Remaining the submarines have tremendous possibilities, so it seems strange to me that wargaming chooses torpedoes with tracking, launching torpedoes at 20 meters depth, and that only the batteries are consumed and can be submerged all the time.

 

 

PD: To all this I will add what I was commenting on in another post, related to the detection capacity of submarines.

 

7:Submarines should take an enemy detection distance to avoid abusing when detecting distant enemies without being seen, which would mean that surface submarines would detect enemies at around 8 or 9km, at a depth of 5 periscope. 0 6km, the deepest would be 3 or 4km, but below the periscope depth the enemies would be only visible to you, and you would not receive information from those detected by your teammates, so you should go up to the periscope depth to report the location of the enemies you see or receive the information of the enemies seen by the teammates.

 

As I put before, all those parameters could be slightly modified to make the submarines of the different nations different. For example, the American submarines are seen more easily but they see the enemy further, the Germans have the activation of the closest torpedoes, the Soviets dive faster etc, it would be giving them something to make them slightly different.

Hopefully wargaming reads this and takes it into account.

 

 

 

[Subtle_Shift_In_Emphasis]

Whxy  start only on the 27th of May? Why not immediatly?

[Klopirat]

5 minutes ago, Subtle_Shift_In_Emphasis said:

Whxy  start only on the 27th of May? Why not immediatly?

maybe to have another round on the PTS, since the first round for the 0.9.5. PTS should be the weekend before...

[AegeanGhost]

Finally subs are here , don't let the unskilled cry and effect you , i only hope the submerged time is long enough and somehow launching from deeper than periscop deapth is not realistic. Other than that congrats ... subs are wellcome ..

most wellcome . REALY REALLY WELLCOME !!!!!!

[Yamashiro42]

Do/will submarine battles count for fulfilling daily missions, campaign tasks, directives, token grinds etc.? If not, it would be difficult to me to participate as already I hardly have enough time to complete the missions each day...

[Klopirat]

1 minute ago, Yamashiro42 said:

Do submarine battles count for fulfilling daily missions, campaign tasks, directives etc.?

- most campaign tasks are tier 8+ or 9+ and subs are only tier 6 at the moment

- the 'common' directive missions are doable in sub mode

[Hugh_Ruka]

11 hours ago, Yamashiro42 said:

Do/will submarine battles count for fulfilling daily missions, campaign tasks, directives, token grinds etc.? If not, it would be difficult to me to participate as already I hardly have enough time to complete the missions each day...

No they won't. Otherwise people might actually test them. Why do you expect WG to want actual testing done ?

[NobleRipper]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:00 AM, Yamashiro42 said:

Do/will submarine battles count for fulfilling daily missions, campaign tasks, directives, token grinds etc.? If not, it would be difficult to me to participate as already I hardly have enough time to complete the missions each day...

As they're a separate battle type, you'd presumably need to look for 'Submarine Battles' in the list of acceptable criteria alongside Co-op, Random, Ranked et al.

[Sunleader]

General Feedback so far.

 

Wargaming has a Gambling Problem and needs to Stop it. This obsession of theirs with turning anything into a Slot Machine is getting Annoying extremely Fast.

MM needs to consider Cruisers based on ASW Capabilities. There is too much Battles where one side gets 2 ASW Cruisers and other side 2 Heavy Cruisers.

Players need to Stop playing like Bots the moment they see a Sub... Currently if People see a Sub its " OH MY GAWD!!!! A SUB !!! I MUST YOLO IT HARD!!! and then they get killed by some BB or Cruiser....

There needs to be more Incentive for Playing Sub Battles with other Ships. The 5 Battle Mission only makes People Play 5 Battles before they dont care anymore.

Sub Battles dont Count towards Dailies which is a Shame. As it Forces People to Play Randoms instead.

 

 

Actual Feedback on Subs Gameplay ?

No Idea. I didnt win the Lottery so I cant give you any actual Feedback on Submarine Gameplay.

[Smeggo]

If played a fair amount of battles and must say that these submarines are too boring to play for me. And I had so much fun with the halloween-submarines 

And as they don't need to surface anymore and dive fast, there is no interaction with them, so i try to ignore them on surfaceships and hope they don't keep me spotted.

Sub -vs- sub underwater-dancing is dumb, I cannot enjoy this.

[TunaRoll]

I do really hope that subs will stay in their own gamemode, so people have a CHOICE if they want to play with/against them or not. Please dont force players into this new meta. Personally, as a mainly BB player i dont like the gameplay of subs and its impact on other classes and i have zero interest in playing them after the test. I would like to play the game as it is right now. Please give people a choice rather than pushing subs into random.

[Ace42X]

"Incoming Fire Alert" skill should be improved to tell you if there are incoming *homing* torpedos, as well as keep you notified of how many pings you have active on you.

Surfacing (and the speed performance, battery recharge, spotting bonuses, ping-speed, Radio Location skill, etc, etc) should be toggled with a "blow ballast" consumable-style key with a (very short, non-reducible) cooldown and activation-timer to stop griefing the microscopic and instantaneous difference between immune to surface damage and vulnerable to it.

Where appropriate, anti-sub secondaries (mortars, hedgehog, etc) should be rolled out to heavy cruisers / battleships so that subs need to be hidden to be invulnerable to damage from most boats in the game- not just be slightly below the surface.  Managing hydro consumable, or proximity spotting, combined with being in secondary range should be sufficient.  Ditto for adding ASW squadrons to at least some carriers.

Would be nice if the deck guns worked as secondaries / AA where appropriate whilst surfaced.

[thereaperman]

Hi, I've been playing the Sub games as surface ships and just wanted to bring to your attention that secondary batteries currently fire at subs even when they are at 'impossible to taregt' depth. Is this intended? If not, thought you should know. Thanks, and keep up the great work... I love your game!

[tijgert]

I like the subs and hope they become a part of the standard fleet. People that moan and complain about subs also moan about carriers, let them play some other game based on fantasy and not reality.

 

One gripe I have is that it's virtually impossible to get away from a destroyer and he only needs one maybe two passes before you're dead.

IRL life it took loads of depth charges, not just a couple, and you still had a decent chance.

And they seem to explode far away from me and still kill me just as fast as when they're on top of me.

Maybe make the damage dependent on explosion distance so it has a use to crash dive or surface? Like in the movies, where depth charges would hit the hull and sink further before they explode and you make a getaway. Very exciting! For this you could also make the DD's set a depth on those charges so it has a use to evade and they have to really focus on killing you.

 

As extra:

1. How about a fake death consumable? Oil slick?

 

2. Make periscope depth a thing where you can still see, but not have the full being surfaced exposure of yourself.

Right now it pays to be at periscope depth so you can dive faster, but you're still 100% as much visible as when surfaced, which is not fair or real, maybe halve that value?

 

3. A wish would be to have the deck gun working!

Make it a 10 second delay before you're able to dive penalty, but I want to finish off someone with the gun if I can!

Alternatively make it a secondary gun you can switch off like AA on DD's.

[thereaperman]

3 hours ago, thereaperman said:

Hi, I've been playing the Sub games as surface ships and just wanted to bring to your attention that secondary batteries currently fire at subs even when they are at 'impossible to taregt' depth. Is this intended? If not, thought you should know. Thanks, and keep up the great work... I love your game!

Also, friendly bots will shoot at and through you to target an enemy sub which is 'impossible to hit' due to depth. Makes depth charging far more dangerous!!

[Echo_519]

How come that submerged subs can still spot any ship from their maximum consealmentrange?

Give all ships a new parameter where they get spotted by submerged subs. Similar like airconsealment.

It's ust really stupid when you get spotten by a sub submerged you and can't even spot it back...

[leeuwbart]

people complained the cv was invincible and that they couldn't attack them whatsoever. as it stands now if you have no dd or cruiser with asw ability you need to be lucky to have them surface long enough for your shots to hit. their diving speed from the surface is fast enough to dive within the time of an attackplane attack arming. the spotting of subs on the surface itself or atleast within the range of actually being able to damage it is completely ridiculous. the concealment dd's are already on the edge of what is doable, but to spot these subs you need to literally fly over them and have to guess where they are if you even want to attack them in a carrier hoping it actually went where you wanted to strike.

 

another issue that will become more frequent is the 20 minute mark being reached a lot more due to the subs being invincible against anything other than destroyers and a select few cruisers. i'd suggest a one charge (perhaps even reduced damage) ASW on all the cruisers so they can atleast do some sort of counter if the sub captain decides to just wait it off underwater. 

 

[Clone76]

I'm very happy that you spend a lot of time in the game so I'll help you make the game better through feedback about the submarines

 

Game modes

I would leave the game mode, "co-up fights" and "random fights" and "submerine fights" as they are and add a game mode with only submarines.

 

Control

Just as you have "1/2" and "full" when turning the ship to the left and to the right it would be good if you have that when diving and submege

 

Attacks

I would triple the sonar size as before for underwater or instead of having to hit two targets (bow and stern on one boat) just having to hit the bottom of the boat. It would also be useful that the reload time of the sonar is shorter and the turning circle would be smaller from the torpedoes.

 

Attractiveness

I think a submarine is boring and tricky to use. It has no strong weapons (torpedoes) or a very unique mechanism (the diving is nice but does not play a big role because there are underwater bombs that go off and you can't escape from that). It is also very difficult to hit something with the sonar. And finally, it is just very difficult to sink a ship.  I have a friend who has this game too and he also finds it difficult to sink a ship and then plays with a destroyer rather than the submarine.

[wullail]

Subs have a method of avoiding incoming fire way too easily..

 

They move to 5.9 depth....then sit there (game counts that as surfaced) , incoming fire...they tap the key to move down to 6.0 depth and then suddenly the shells can't hit as it's no longer counted as surfaced.

 

Tap the up key, back to 5.9 and surfaced with all the advantages back.

 

 

[varoshanin]

one minus for WG, regardless a max submerge  submarines, they still could be damaged because RPF on DD . DD "knows" where they are and all just drop a bunch of deep charges bombs, so i think on maximum deep RPF shouldn't be work at all for DD s on submarines who are on max deepbecause are just sitting ducks on 12 knots speed and paper armor. and every deep bomb just killing them part by part, they cant escape DD s on surface because RPF. so WG should be work on that RPF for submarines on other ships on maximum dept. 

[burningbridges]

Personally quite enjoy the new addition, 

would like the opportunity to be able to use the deck gun when surfaced.

The ability to shoot torps without the need to lock on directionally.

The amount of time being submerged should be air dependant and need to resurface to replenish 

[Imotekh68]

Good job ! ... love subs ;)

 

[Ace42X]

4 hours ago, varoshanin said:

one minus for WG, regardless a max submerge  submarines, they still could be damaged because RPF on DD . DD "knows" where they are and all just drop a bunch of deep charges bombs, so i think on maximum deep RPF shouldn't be work at all for DD s on submarines who are on max deepbecause are just sitting ducks on 12 knots speed and paper armor. and every deep bomb just killing them part by part, they cant escape DD s on surface because RPF. so WG should be work on that RPF for submarines on other ships on maximum dept. 

IIRC RPF doesn't have any effect on submerged submarines at all, at present.

 

On 5/28/2020 at 10:20 AM, Ace42X said:

Surfacing (and the speed performance, battery recharge, spotting bonuses, ping-speed, Radio Location skill, etc, etc) should be toggled with a "blow ballast" consumable-style key with a (very short, non-reducible) cooldown and activation-timer to stop griefing the microscopic and instantaneous difference between immune to surface damage and vulnerable to it.

Also, submerged boats should only provide "cyclone" style passive-spotting to team-mates (minimap only).  Pinged targets being normally detected is maybe fine.