Proposal: German Battlecruiser Refit Aesthetics (what-if)

[1MajorKoenig]

Hi folks,

 

a wonderful thread (thanks to @Takemikazuchi_1121) in the German section about community made ship Designs got me thinking - at some point we will likely see German and British Battlecruisers in game. I admit these are among my favourite ships but these are essentially WW1 ships. From what we have been seeing till now it seems inevitable that WG will unleash their infamous and devastating “what-if-refit-power” on these ships. 
 

We know how the Renowns got/were supposed to be refitted and we know the plans for Hood. However WG sometimes goes beyond what happened in real live (Orion and Iron Duke fictional refits come to mind) and we almost know for certain that they would “what-if refit” the German Battlecruisers.

 

In this thread I would like to propose certain aesthetics for fictional refits on this line and discuss similar for the assumed British low tier BCs  such as Lion and Tiger.

 

Mind you that these are pretty basic drafts / sketches which came out said said thread. It’s more about proposing a style rather than fully fleshed out deigns. My thinking behind this is a progression, meaning the modernizations gets increasingly more modern with each tier.

 

Thanks for reading and any comments below 

 

 

EDIT: added original drawings (Shipbucket, Wikipedia, etc.) for comparison - thanks @ColonelPete

[1MajorKoenig]

Tier 4 - MOLTKE

 

At T4 there is a Good chance we will see Lion/Princess Royal (possibly the latter as Lion is already taken) and Moltke. For Moltke I would keep the refit minimalist as the ship is pretty much outdated by WW2 standards. Furthermore „Yavuz“ ex-Goeben gives some good indication of what could have happened with such a ship. In short I would take Yavuz as a guidance and:

 

• add plenty of auto cannons (Yavuz had 40 (!) in the end)
• add a pen old fashioned slim pole Mast like a late WW1 type mast

 

 

 

 

 

Tier 4 - PRINCESS ROYAL (aka Lion)

 

Lion could be named “Princes Royal” as the current T9 RN BB already carries the name Lion. Of course I would prefer to have her unaltered but T4 CVs and WG’s WW2 Passion will probably prevent this. Hence why I thought about a refit:

• more efficient boiler arrangement through smaller boilers could lead to trunking the first two funnels into one
• add some AA
• add a plane and a large hangar for convoy escort duties
• replace the secondaries with turrets as seen on Queen Elizabeth - however that’s really optional 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

Tier 5 - DERFFLINGER 

 

T5 are expected to be the famous “Iron Dog” Derfflinger and HMS Tiger.

 

For Derfflinger I would go for a relatively limited 1920/30s style refit considering that at least two more modern WW1 BC classes are to follow at T6+7 which would naturally get a more extensive refit:

 

• a plane
• updated fire control - but I would keep the tripod and add some platforms similar what the British and Japanese did. to their Tripods
• AA and directors
• oil fired boilers for a tad additional speed

 

 

Alternatively I created a slightly more modern version:

• an Admiral Hipper Bridge Superstructure
• a Mast similar to what WG mounted on the in game König (same tier?)
• Admiral Hippers Hangar
• a Panzerschiff Graf Spee bow
• some AA with WW2 style Wackeltopf-Directors
   

 

 

As a third option here is a more Panzerschiff–ish Refit — inspired by a photo of Admiral Scheer (aft rangefinder still to be added though):

 

Original Shipbucket drawing:

Spoiler

 

[1MajorKoenig]

Tier 6 — MACKENSEN

 

At T6 we could assume to meet HMS Renown and the Mackensen Class (of which we have Prinz Eitel Friedrich already in Game). For the German ship I would again keep the scale of the refit rather civil and make use of some typical trends of the time:

 

• new polemast with director
• addition of AA and directors
• a plane 
• oil fired boilers (potentially)

 

 

 

Original Shipbucket drawing:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Tier 6 — RENOWN / REPULSE

 

For the most likely Royal Navy BC at T6 we know what kind of refits are possible. While I prefer the more basic refit as seen on Repulse I could also see WG going for the late War Refit as seen on Renown (pictures from Shipbucket):

 

[1MajorKoenig]

Tier 7 — ERSATZ YORCK (Name tbd)

 

At T7 I would assume to see a modernized Admiral Class or alternatively the J3 design and the Ersatz Yorck Class. As the tiers progress I would increase the degree of modernization gradually (still - it is “only” T7). For this ship I chose:

 

• the original Scharnhorst bow refitted
• A more modern pole mast
• AA
• plane 

 

 

 

Original drawing Wikipedia and for reference Scharnhorst’s original bow:

Spoiler

 

...and this is how Scharnhorst’s bow looked like originally:

 

 

 

Tier 7 — ADMIRAL 

 

We already have Hood at T7. For a tree a refitted Admiral class or alternatively a J3 Design would make sense (again Shipbucket):

 

[1MajorKoenig]

(placeholder)

[1MajorKoenig]

(placeholder)

[1MajorKoenig]

 (placeholder)

[ColonelPete]

That looks very nice.

Could you also add the before-picture for a better comparison?

[1MajorKoenig]

48 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That looks very nice.

Could you also add the before-picture for a better comparison?

Excellent suggestion - added. Thanks 

[HaachamaShipping]

2 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Tier 6

 

Weser, is that you?

 

Nice work though.

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

Weser, is that you?

 

Nice work though.

Well it is a fictional 1930s Mackensen–Class. Weser is a CV project, do you mean a Mackensen–CV–Conversion  ?
 

Thanks though 

[HaachamaShipping]

16 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Well it is a fictional 1930s Mackensen–Class. Weser is a CV project, do you mean a Mackensen–CV–Conversion  ?
 

I meant the lulzy mast on the Weser that already inspired memes.

[Wulf_Ace]

why would they put those ships in game, what would be their place in game and tactic exactly?

[ColonelPete]

29 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would they put those ships in game, what would be their place in game and tactic exactly?

• the game needs regular new content
• many players wait for these ships
• shoot stuff, flank, tank, hit and run

[1MajorKoenig]

36 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would they put those ships in game, what would be their place in game and tactic exactly?

 

There are still some ship enthusiasts who want these German and British Battlecruisers. Historical ships got maybe forgotten a bit but there is still an audience.

 

If you ask me about the ingame implementation - I would position them as fast flanking Battleships. Maybe a bit like Gascogne but with some German “game flavours” such as tankiness and good Secondaries.

[shadowwolf9705]

for me the BC line should have a gameplay in a mix of the historical intentions and national flavour:

 

for example: you have decent Speed tough Armor and very accurate guns with above average RoF, but your disadvantage are in general beign Undergunned Caliber wise with having a smaller caliber for your tier and less guns for example 8 350mm on Tier 8 etc. which makes them more dependent on flanking and or overwhelming the enemy with fast accurate fire  but lacking in the alpha strike department.

 

Artwise in my opinion the Pef is a good example of what can be done with a bit of holding back as it keeps lots of its WW1 Imperial German Charme especially the bow unlike the rest of the German Techtree were the WW1 ships were butchered and as a cherry on top they gave us this ungerman targetpractice equipment on T10

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, shadowwolf9705 said:

WW1 Imperial German Charme especially the bow

Well WG’s PEF has a fictional Atlantic bow refitted 

[Jethro_Grey]

6 hours ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

I meant the lulzy mast on the Weser that already inspired memes.

...this is no Carrier, this is a foot ball field! 

4 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would they put those ships in game, what would be their place in game and tactic exactly?

 

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

• the game needs regular new content
• many players wait for these ships
• shoot stuff, flank, tank, hit and run

This for one. 

 

Not it every new nation/ tech tree does need to have a ‘national flavor’ or a gimmick. 

 

A simple ‘has guns and shoots stuff’ is totally sufficient. 

Besides, some of these warships actually existed, this alone is reason enough to add them as tech tree ships or premiums even if WG never introduces a dedicated battle cruiser class. 

[shadowwolf9705]

yeah i forgot that she also has the clipper bow but atleast she does not look as horrible as the bayern class which got turned from a bayern to something else

[albin322]

please add all the historical ships first pls. you have 10-20 mor swedish ships to add not to talk about norweigan finnish and so on. pls no more imaginary [edited]. 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, albin322 said:

please add all the historical ships first pls. you have 10-20 mor swedish ships to add not to talk about norweigan finnish and so on. pls no more imaginary [edited]. 

 

The Battlecruisers aren’t fictional. Issue is more that these are mostly WW1 ships and WG made clear that they are implementing such ships mostly WW2 ready / refitted. As the German Battlecruisers were scuttled after WW1 there are no real refits - hence my “style” proposal for WG.

 

Btw it doesn’t mean we are only getting these or that we are getting these any time soon at all. And by the way we just got a full line of Swedish ships - I could see WG implementing more at some point 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

13 hours ago, shadowwolf9705 said:

yeah i forgot that she also has the clipper bow but atleast she does not look as horrible as the bayern class which got turned from a bayern to something else

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. I know that the historical hull is the one I want, but I also know the fantasy refit is... better. It shouldn't matter much at tier 6, except I'm tempted to use tiers 6/7 in operations if possible and it seems a little unfair for the team to go with the less good historical hull.

 

Bummer.

[Takemikazuchi_1121]

Wonderful Thread! 

 

As mentioned many times, i love your sketches.

Especially the Derfflinger looks beautiful (for a refitted version at least ). And we can still hope for a historical Premium SMS Lützow on Tier IV.

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, Takemikazuchi_1121 said:

Wonderful Thread! 

 

As mentioned many times, i love your sketches.

Especially the Derfflinger looks beautiful (for a refitted version at least ). And we can still hope for a historical Premium SMS Lützow on Tier IV.

 

 

 

Thank you  

 

Yes, a historical Lützow at T4 would be amazing! 

 

Another question: considering WG will refit Lion and Tiger as well - how could that look like...?