Proposal: punishment for low-performers

[Ukio]

Honestly, how many times did something like this happen to you:

- you kill 2-3 opponents

- you cap several points, decap, fight for objectives

- you play properly for your class

- you score 700-800+ points (on the losing side) every time

- or even better - you have higher score than 70% of the winners 

... and you lose 5-6 games in a row

... and your teammates barely have 300 points 

... and/or its a complete wipeout - your entire team dies without killing anyone (or just 1-2 ships)

 

I propose some mechanic that will punish bad players.

Maybe after T7 or something...

Yes, Wargaming, I know it may be a bit harsh on the CreditCardKids at T10, but you can sell some "protection" for them, right? And if this is positive, you may even keep some current players for a while.

 

So it may be something like this:

- no matter on which side you are - if you score low - you get punished:

T8 - lower than 600 points - double repair cost

T9 - lower than 700 points - triple repair cost and you cannot play the next game as T9

T10 - lower than 750 points - triple repair cost, you cannot play next game as T8-T10

 

I have seen so many times "mind boggling" scores like 54, or 107 ... how do you even get that low?!

Maybe the points mechanic should also also tweaked to encourage objective play, rather than dmg play. Currently, DDs that cap (spotting is OK I think) get nothing.

 

This may also help a bit regarding the current "constant (no, really, literally every game) uptier situation"

[NicramDuel]

I'd personally love any harder, rougher incentive to make players play a bit more according to expectations. I sincerely hope something similar will eventually go live. Two factors need to be considered though: 

 

-With MM being so poor that bulldoze games occur all-too-often, penalty system, if score-based shouldn't have a rough limit (like T8:600-T9:700-T10:750 points), but more of a percentage or placing-based. For instance, the worst 2-3 players will get hit each time, instead of, say, the whole of your team having to suffer the consequences of performing under 750 points at T10, after being slapped in the face by 2 3-man-hurricane-league statpaddler teams on the enemy side. Also, as you say, other factors than damage have to be counted in such a system - with hard points like the goodwilled DD who goes in to spot or cap early, but gets CV-slammed.

 

-WG has no real concept, as they have pointed out directly or indirectly, on how to survive as a company without a large mass of clueless, laid-back, often useless players present in battles. Especially if they contribute with their wallets, or as punching bags to better players who will thus open their wallets. It would just kill their profits in quite a short run, so sadly, it seems that noobish gameplay was, is, and will always stay a part of the game. 

[TobiAssho]

9 minutes ago, Ukio said:

Honestly, how many times did something like this happen to you:

- you kill 2-3 opponents

- you play properly for your class

 

 

Looks like you are not talking about yourself.

Your stats: 0,84 destroyed ships per battle

Survived: 34,32%

PR: average

T10 winrate: 51%

 

Your self perception is amazing. If you want to win more, get better and dont blame your team.

 

About your idea: why should ppl get punished for playing a game? It is random battles. You dont want less people playing, do you?

[Allied_Winter]

14 minutes ago, Ukio said:

So it may be something like this:

As much as I understand the sentiment, WG clarified (often enough already) that: Yes, a harsher economy could alleviate quite a few problems on the higher tiers. However WG WANTS (!!) players to play where they want. As long as they're not breaking the game rules (and last I checked, being bad doesn't constitute a rule break), they can play whereever they want. The free premium consumables are a step more in that direction.

[Perekotypole]

Vor 49 Minuten, Ukio sagte:

- you kill 2-3 opponents

- you cap several points, decap, fight for objectives

- you score 700-800+ points (on the losing side) every time

this not gonna happen, if low performers are gone... or do you think it's possible to get kraken vs decent players?

[Animalul2012]

Tell me an online game where all if not almost all players are experts? Punishing them wont push them to get better, they will just quit the game. I rather have some informative/tutorials videos. But there will always be bad/below average players no matter what you do, deal with it already you can not win every battle...but you can make you enemies bleed as much as you did.

[CptBarney]

rewarding good play is far better than punishing bad. humans are more likely to work towards a positive goal than to keep away from negative ones.

[Lebedjev]

Yeah, let's make detonation more punishing !

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 1 Stunde, Ukio sagte:

I propose some mechanic that will punish bad players.

You want punishment? How about "Lowest 3 scorers of every team get 1 week account ban"? Pretty sure all cries for punishment will cease after the first day...

[Miscommunication_dept]

As a fairly average player why would you want to get rid of the poor players?

 

If they are no longer playing high tiers due to these disincentives who then becomes the worst players at high tier?
 

It’s those formally average players whose win rate will plummet. 
 

 

[ColonelPete]

Leads to more camping....

[159Hunter]

People don't need punishing. People just need a decent ingame tutorial to learn the basics of the game, such as:

- ammo type selection

- spotting mechanics

- angling

- tanking and angling

- how to read minimap

- ...

I am convinced that most terrible players don't understand those concepts. Educate them and they might improve slightly.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Oh look, yet another elitist looking to blame the average Joe for their win rate dropping.

 

Instead of punishing the less talented, why don't you skilled players have your own battle mode. The rest of us can then just go out and enjoy ourselves and do the best we can. Oh but that won't happen will it, and you know why? Because you will finally be found out as to how good you really are.

 

We, the average Joe, who grab a few games here and there, and do our best, are the reason some people have the win/kill rates they have. If we offend you, thats unfortunate, but you are more than welcome to play something else.

[Ouzo11]

Hey at least it is not us who make other people waste their time and ruin their fun because we are too cool to learn the BARE MINIMUM mechanics of the game m8

[ToxicWomble]

you cant fix stupid,the best you can do is ALL you can do and hoping that your team does not entirely exist of those players who make mud look clever, I personally have killed 8 in a T10 match and still lost then its off to the next game,people will perform to the best of their abilities and thats all you can hope for

 

[K82J]

21 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

rewarding good play is far better than punishing bad. humans are more likely to work towards a positive goal than to keep away from negative ones.

 

I think about a campaign which requires a number of battles won , rewards for each task, with main reward being a random ship container maybe ? Every task and the main task requires a set amount of battles won. You could just play while complete them, no need for tasks that make people throw games ( like tank X million damage). Available for everyone from lets say, T6, could be completed with T6+ ships. No coop or scenario.

[Molly_Delaney]

Always amuses me when people suggest that 'bad-players' should be punished in some way or the progression made harder.

Whilst not realising that if it was implemented earlier they might not be where they are now.......

 

Even the 90%+ WR people started as bad players, that is what some people forget; nobody installed WoWs and immediately had 90% WR in every ship class/tier straight away.

 

 

Harder progression means less players which means YOU are more likely to be matched against a team of 90%+ WR players.........

 

 

 

[Perekotypole]

Vor 2 Minuten, Molly_Delaney sagte:

Even the 90%+ WR people started as bad players, that is what some people forget; nobody installed WoWs and immediately had 90% WR in every ship class/tier straight away.

 

some did install and were 53% and now 65% winrate, there are tons of players who never were bad

[ThePurpleSmurf]

As a general rule of thumb that applies to everything in life: It is much more effective to reward good actions than to punish bad actions.

[Wulf_Ace]

I think the exact word Random means exactly that, Random everything including players and their skills, mood of that day, etc. That is why we have ranked and clan battles to filter that which you complain, play with your clan mates or friends and you will feel better and maybe win more, that is the only solution.

[Padds01]

2 hours ago, Ukio said:

Honestly, how many times did something like this happen to you:

- you kill 2-3 opponents

- you cap several points, decap, fight for objectives

- you play properly for your class

- you score 700-800+ points (on the losing side) every time

- or even better - you have higher score than 70% of the winners 

... and you lose 5-6 games in a row

... and your teammates barely have 300 points 

... and/or its a complete wipeout - your entire team dies without killing anyone (or just 1-2 ships)

 

I propose some mechanic that will punish bad players.

Maybe after T7 or something...

Yes, Wargaming, I know it may be a bit harsh on the CreditCardKids at T10, but you can sell some "protection" for them, right? And if this is positive, you may even keep some current players for a while.

 

So it may be something like this:

- no matter on which side you are - if you score low - you get punished:

T8 - lower than 600 points - double repair cost

T9 - lower than 700 points - triple repair cost and you cannot play the next game as T9

T10 - lower than 750 points - triple repair cost, you cannot play next game as T8-T10

 

I have seen so many times "mind boggling" scores like 54, or 107 ... how do you even get that low?!

Maybe the points mechanic should also also tweaked to encourage objective play, rather than dmg play. Currently, DDs that cap (spotting is OK I think) get nothing.

 

This may also help a bit regarding the current "constant (no, really, literally every game) uptier situation"

 

 

Dont think it would help you would just be incentivising a different kind of  poor behaviour somehting akin to the save your star mentality in ranked.

 

the problems are all in the design, the scoreboard you got 3 kills on those players that moved forwards to kill the low scorers on your team . if they had been better , or been worse team players and made you go first and be targeted so they could farm some damage your score would of been lower.

 

If you want people to play as a team and work towards the win then simple, the winning team should get X and the loosing team should all get 0 and the scoreboard should just say win or loss

 

but too many people are focused on "thier" score not the teams performance so that wont ever happen. and unles WG start directing the psychologists and mathmeticians they imploy to make the game fun rather than profitable things are extremely unlikely  to change.

 

i think the best bet for a "fun" mode would actually now be some form of pve content as that can cater to the personal score style much better. 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

I think the OP should go to Gulag himself, this game is for all and everybody, and thats the way WG  will keep it, oh you don't believe me, just take a look in the Premium shop where you can get some right decent ships.

 

So imagine a new player, starts the game, grinds the lower tiers, gets to tier 3 and four and gets fed up of getting crapped on by three Hosho's at a time, has a look in the shop for anything with decent looking AA...... tempting isn't it.

 

WG care about raiding your wallet, not your personal winrate

[BlackYeti]

I'm against any "targeted" punishment but I do think current economy is far too generous which results in T10 clog and underpopulated lower tiers.

[Maris_Piper]

So if what I'm reading is right some players want punishment for less talented players, I'm not talking about the A Holes who team kill etc but someone who maybe doing their best but hasn't quite got it yet,, ok then they put them in a separate game say less than 50% win rate, (That's me gone) , Then what happens next,,Players start whinging about those who only have win rates in the 50%'s and on it goes, I have noticed that a lot of the whingers get pulled up by other forum members and their own sorry performances exposed.

[lup3s]

2 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

People don't need punishing. People just need a decent ingame tutorial to learn the basics of the game, such as:

- ammo type selection

- spotting mechanics

- angling

- tanking and angling

- how to read minimap

- ...

I am convinced that most terrible players don't understand those concepts. Educate them and they might improve slightly.

 

Recently met an Izumo player who still thought the service cost of your ship depends on damage received and if you got sunk or not ...

And that's just because he explicitly said this in chat (after I asked why he was playing so cautious).

 

So even after THAT many years, there are still (a lot of?) players who lack basic knowledge ..