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Purnylla

What's the difference between both Russian destroyer lines?

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What's the difference between the Kiev>Tashkent>Kharabovsk line and the Ognevoi>Udaloi>Grozovoi line?

 

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Kiev to Khaba is the "pure" gunboat line. They are ultra fast (though tied with the French DD's in speed), have longish range (though Khaba has less than Tashkent due to Khaba being too strong in the old days), terrible torps (Kiev 8km torps are okish, Khaba's 6km torps are trash) and terrible concealment (Khaba in the standard gunboat build is iirc 8.7km or so). Khabarovsk (like Harugumo) still eats full BB AP damage.

 

Ognevoi to Grozovoi is a hybrid line. They aren't as fast as her sisters, have better concealment, better torps and can even mount def AA + Heal + Smoke separately!

 

 

Currently the Grozovoi line is seen as the better of the two with Khabarovsk fallen from grace (being powercrept to hell and back).

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17 minutes ago, Purnylla said:

What's the difference between the Kiev>Tashkent>Kharabovsk line and the Ognevoi>Udaloi>Grozovoi line?

 

"Main" line of Kiev-Tashkent-Khabarovsk are artillery oriented with emphasis on high speed and long range, but unlike French, they can equip smoke or heal. That said, Khabarovsk was repeatedly nerfed HARD in the past, thus she is stuck with 13.5km at best and battlecruiser grade rudder shift. For all intents and purposes, she is a downgrade over tier 9, which in turn was repeatedly buffed over the years. Khabarovsk also is stuck with 6km torps, which are purely yolo weapon on a ship forced to run double rudder built, thus concealment is closer to 10km

 

Ognevoi-Udaloi-Grozovoi is all over the place. Ognevoi is torpedoboat, or rather is pressed into role of one due to only 4 barrels worth of broadside with not that fast reload. Udaloi is spiritual sister to Tashkent, as in open water long range gunboat that can equip smoke AND heal. She is slower but have noticeably better turn radius, so WSAD hax is still strong within her. Grozovoi was supposed to be "gun oriented hybrid"... in practice, you end up with just average ship across the board. At least, she is better than Khabarovsk at "long range gunnery" simply by virtue of having almost 15km range while having functional concealment and 10km fishes when you actually need to play for the objective without attracting all the attention.

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Well from my experience:

The line that leads to Khabarovsk is crappy and powercreep to hell, they are in the same boat with german destroyers. I mean just look at gnevny that thing is a t5 ship with a 6 mark on it.Minsk is playable at best, kiev is decent, tashkent is a gem and khabarovsk is again a t9 side grade ship with 10 mark slapped on it.Compare it with kleber.

The line that leads to grozovoi is actually quite good. I did not played ognevoi so I can no speak about it.However Udaloi is just as good gunboat as a tashkent if not better, same goes for grozovoi a way way better gunboat than khabarovsk and even tashkent. You know why? Because ognevoi,udaloi,grozovoi get smoke,heal,defensive aa,speed boost all in separate slots. They get better concealment, better maneuverability,usable torpedoes(unlike the 6km hope for the best yolo torpedoes that khaba gets). 

Despite all of this soviet destroyers are DEAD.(ok except tashkent,udaloi,grozovoi they are still quite good) How many of them do you see today? Do I need to say that the french destroyers are better gunboats than them? That they get better torpedoes,concealment,maneuverability, god like AP for a destroyer. And that kleber is not scared of shooting BBs because it will not eat penetrations from them? Or that it has better range than khabarovsk with AFT?

I recommend not to grind the Khabarovsk line unless you have nothing else to grind. It is not worth it at all right now, this is not 2015-2016. 

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Everything about the Kiev / Tashkent / Khaba has been pretty much said. I just like to point out, that Khaba doesnt make much sense anymore. Tashkent is better and looking at T10 - Kleber is better so Khaba lost her spot.

 

Ognevoi is a superb torpedoboat. The line doesnt really evolve consistend tho, since Udaloi is all of a sudden a decent gunboat but losing its torpedo strenght somewhat. Grozovoi is an update in gun & torp armament but not easy to play Id say. Especially with SAP floating around. This goes for all russian gunboats btw - it can ruin your day faster then you can say BLYAT, when you meet a good Venezia player... But thats a different subject I suppose since its bad for all DDs.

 

13 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

I recommend not to grind the Khabarovsk line unless you have nothing else to grind. It is not worth it at all right now, this is not 2015-2016. 

 

Kiev and Tashkent are absolutly worth it. Kiev is better then Le Fantasque on T8.

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Khaba gets pwned super hard by planes.

Groz gets pwned hard by planes.

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

Kiev and Tashkent are absolutly worth it. Kiev is better then Le Fantasque on T8.

Le Fanta can still play solid torpedoboat, when not bothering everyone at 15km with her guns. That said, Kiev/Tashkent with maxed out camo can stealth torp as well. And while everyone expects spanish inquisition, no one expects russian torps.

 

Still, by bringing russian (or french for that matter) gunboat, you're removing one DD to carry out usual DD tasks while you're not bringing any "cruiser grade" firepower. Heck, most so called hybrids like US or UK casually outgun russian "gunboats" while having massive concealment advantage dictating engagement to begin with. And then can smoke themselves, while "long range" means RU/FR gunbote is detected by someone else and ready to be farmed.

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3 hours ago, Panocek said:

And while everyone expects spanish inquisition, no one expects russian torps.

 

True, I got quite a few torp hits with Kiev, that made me go "lol". (some on cap contesting DDs that smoked up xD)

 

3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Still, by bringing russian (or french for that matter) gunboat, you're removing one DD to carry out usual DD tasks while you're not bringing any "cruiser grade" firepower.

 

Thats something I dislike in general but WG seems to push into that direction. I also dislike DDs with firepower of a cruiser. Anything that blurrs the borders between classes feels wrong to me (coughbattlecruiserscough). It just shifts the balance because they cant do what the class is suppose to do and do better in other categories. Regarding Kiev: just bring her in a division with a CV, let the CV take care of the DDs and you dont need to worry about beeing out-capped :D

 

 

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Here's how I'd fix RU DDs :cap_like:

 

Tier 4. Gogland

Tier 5.  Izyaslav (buffed range/HP for tier 5)

 

Fleet destroyers (hybrids with good torpedoes, not 1 million gimmicks)

Tier 6. Gnevny (7) 2x3 8km torpedoes.

Tier 7. Ognavoi (30) 2x3 10km torpedoes.

Tier 8. Smelyy (31bis) 2x5 10km torpedoes.

Tier 9. Neustrabalanscey (41) 2x5 12km+ torpedoes.

Tier 10. Spokoynyy (56) 2x5 12km+ torpedoes.

 

Premium fleet destroyers.

Tier 6. Project 7u and a black sea project 7 (Bezuprechnyy)

Tier 7. Project 30 with 2x5 8km torps and single mount guns.

Tier 8. 31bis with B2-LM mounts and 2x5 12km torpedoes.

Tier 9. Neustrashimyy

 

Fast gunboats. (all have 5km torps with crazy high base damage and speed)

Tier 6. Podvoisky (6s gun reload and 11.5km range)

Tier 7. Minsk

Tier 8. Kiev

Tier 9. Udaloi (OG)

Tier 10. Khaba (unnerf)

 

Premium leaders.

Tier 7. Leningrad

Tier 8. Tashkent

Tier 10. Groz

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