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Humorpalanta

Incapacitations - WG what did you do???

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Hi guys,

 

Couple of people have mentioned here and I've also noticed the extreme amount of incapacitations since the second to last patch.

Now I just wanna show you an example:

 

I don't have an image for the first one.

Here is the second one:

shot-20-05-09-11-35-47-0621.jpg

 

Here is the third one:

shot-20-05-09-11-38-04-0969.jpg

 

Here is the fourth one:

shot-20-05-09-11-39-41-0560.jpg

 

 

As you can see it is the same game. Within 10 minutes! I was shot by only 2 Gneisenaus. Every hit I received was an incapacitation. This is not bad luck. WG. Get your things together!

 

Okay, just played another game in Hood.

3 incapacitations plus a final dead turret.

 

All this within 2 games!

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What is the issue?

If Gneisenau can penetrate your turret armour then I don't understand why your turret shouldn't get incapacitated or destroyed...?

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I think there was some Update in the last few Months that Changed Overpenetrations and some Damage Mechanics. Maybe its related to that ? After all alot of Damage on Modules comes from Overpenetrations.

 

 

If they Really did something in this Regard I like it.

From the Get Go. I find the current System still way too Arcade and Gamey in that Regard. Effectively your Entire Ship stays Working at Full Power down to the Moment you Sink.

With only extremely Rare cases of actually losing some Modules.

The only Exception usually being the AA Mounts which are the only thing that on a Regular Basis gets Destroyed when your Ship gets Battered up.

 

So I would actually Love if WG would Expand on this kind of stuff.

I would Love if we could get maybe several Boilers/Engines etc. And have things Break Permanently much more Frequently.

So that a Ship which is at 10% HP due to taking alot of Hits. Also actually ends up being no longer Fully Functional.

 

Right now. 10% of HP of my Ship usually means that most of my Ship is Saturated for Damage. Yet all my Guns are Working. My Ships is going Full Speed. And effectively Everything except my AA Mounts and Secondaries are working at 100% Efficiency.

 

I actually think the System should be less Focused on Hull HP and should give Disabling a bigger Role.

Funny enough. This would even make the Game less Frustrating. Because right now. IF you actually Lose a Turret Permanently. You end up Extremely Disadvantaged in that Match. Because its such a Rare thing that you already know everyone else is Undamaged basicly.

So if losing some Stuff in the Process of taking Hits was more Normal. It would actually make this kind of thing a far less annoying Experience. Because you would know. Others are not Fully Working anymore either.

 

 

I would of course still make some Security Mechanisms. For example I would set it so. That at least 1 of the Front Turrets cannot be Incapacitated Permanently. And that 1-2 of the 2--4 Engines most Ships have cannot be Permanently Disabled. Meaning you never lose all Mobility etc etc.

 

But I do think that when you Received so much Hits that your Ship is down to 10% HP then it should really be Super Rare to still have all Main Guns and Engines etc.

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2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But I do think that when you Received so much Hits that your Ship is down to 10% HP then it should really be Super Rare to still have all Main Guns and Engines etc.

"Every hit I received was an incapacitation. " - right in my OP.

 

Also just played another game in Hood. 3 incapacitations and a dead turret. Within 4 minutes.

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9 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But I do think that when you Received so much Hits that your Ship is down to 10% HP then it should really be Super Rare to still have all Main Guns and Engines etc.

WarThunder is that way -------->

 

It's not a simulator, it's about entertaining gameplay that "feels right" to the player. Module destruction, like Detonation, should be rare and preventable or at least have some proper mitigation which is not dependent on RNG. Increased incapacitations will only be acceptable when we all get upgraded to Premium consumables and have more repair charges and a shorter cooldown to work with. Until then it's a pain in the rump, and the OP is perfectly entitled to complain about it, because it will lead to frustrating gameplay situations.

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14 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

"Every hit I received was an incapacitation. " - right in my OP.

 

Also just played another game in Hood. 3 incapacitations and a dead turret. Within 4 minutes.

 

I am talking about Permanent Ones. Not just 20 Second Breaks for the Turret.

And Yes. But this is still Super Rare.

In my Last 10 BB Games I had maybe 2 Turrets Disabled Temporarily. Its been at least 20-30 BB Games that I last lost a Turret Permanently. Think it was Jean Bart while Slugging another Jean Bart around the Corner of an Island as we both tried to kill our Turrets as we could not really do damage from that Position.

 

 

11 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

WarThunder is that way -------->

 

It's not a simulator, it's about entertaining gameplay that "feels right" to the player. Module destruction, like Detonation, should be rare and preventable or at least have some proper mitigation which is not dependent on RNG. Increased incapacitations will only be acceptable when we all get upgraded to Premium consumables and have more repair charges and a shorter cooldown to work with. Until then it's a pain in the rump, and the OP is perfectly entitled to complain about it, because it will lead to frustrating gameplay situations.

 

I Play War Thunder as well.

But War Thunder is lacking in alot of other Places.

 

And Well Mate. Gameplay right now does not Feel right to me :)

Needless to say. If the OP is Entitled to Complain about it. Then I am entitled to Like it and Ask for more of it :)

Or do you think the only ones Entitled to their Opinion is the People Agreeing with Yours ? ^^

 

To begin with tough. I am not Asking for Simulation Levels. Just for a Step Further towards Realism to make it feel less Gamey and Generic.

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3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Or do you think the only ones Entitled to their Opinion is the People Agreeing with Yours ? ^^

No, but I do think the OP is right in finding this recent phenomenon annoying. It may be true that ships would be rendered hors de combat more often than happens in this game but the number one annoyance here is player agency being denied, and so realism in damage would just be deeply frustrating. Repair kits allow ships to repair damage that would have taken hours in seconds, but they do that because in the game that's how long you have to react, and it allows players to keep involved until the end. I think you might find players leaving games more often if they were faced with driving a hulk for 10 minutes of a game....

 

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

And Well Mate. Gameplay right now does not Feel right to me :)

Not to me, either. But I don't think this is the cause of it.

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in a tier 5 ship you are hitted by a tier 7 BB with ultra big guns? well I would say lucky me I didnt die in few salvos, gun destroyed is the least it could have happen.

 

by my experience lower tier ships have a bit bigger modules damage, maybe beacouse they are lower tier or I didnt bring enough upgrades. But on high tier that only happens when enemy keeps shooting the same place on my ship over and over and thats ok.

 

I dont like only that some ships who have torpedoes (like Scharnhorst) gets their torpedoes blown away easy ,while others dont like never, thats a bit hmm  

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I find the only incapacitations I notice are very rare things like the game where my richelieu lost both turrets in a single salvo.

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1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

I think there was some Update in the last few Months that Changed Overpenetrations and some Damage Mechanics. Maybe its related to that ? After all alot of Damage on Modules comes from Overpenetrations.

 

 

If they Really did something in this Regard I like it.

From the Get Go. I find the current System still way too Arcade and Gamey in that Regard. Effectively your Entire Ship stays Working at Full Power down to the Moment you Sink.

With only extremely Rare cases of actually losing some Modules.

The only Exception usually being the AA Mounts which are the only thing that on a Regular Basis gets Destroyed when your Ship gets Battered up.

 

So I would actually Love if WG would Expand on this kind of stuff.

I would Love if we could get maybe several Boilers/Engines etc. And have things Break Permanently much more Frequently.

So that a Ship which is at 10% HP due to taking alot of Hits. Also actually ends up being no longer Fully Functional.

 

Right now. 10% of HP of my Ship usually means that most of my Ship is Saturated for Damage. Yet all my Guns are Working. My Ships is going Full Speed. And effectively Everything except my AA Mounts and Secondaries are working at 100% Efficiency.

 

I actually think the System should be less Focused on Hull HP and should give Disabling a bigger Role.

Funny enough. This would even make the Game less Frustrating. Because right now. IF you actually Lose a Turret Permanently. You end up Extremely Disadvantaged in that Match. Because its such a Rare thing that you already know everyone else is Undamaged basicly.

So if losing some Stuff in the Process of taking Hits was more Normal. It would actually make this kind of thing a far less annoying Experience. Because you would know. Others are not Fully Working anymore either.

 

 

I would of course still make some Security Mechanisms. For example I would set it so. That at least 1 of the Front Turrets cannot be Incapacitated Permanently. And that 1-2 of the 2--4 Engines most Ships have cannot be Permanently Disabled. Meaning you never lose all Mobility etc etc.

 

But I do think that when you Received so much Hits that your Ship is down to 10% HP then it should really be Super Rare to still have all Main Guns and Engines etc.

Compartmentalization idea isn't bad, but it would mean rebalancing game from ground up basically. And that time, according to spreadshiet, would be better spent on adding more premiums:cap_cool:

 

Also, RNG based saving throw is still needed, otherwise you'd end up with War Thunder, where people just keep sniping ammo magazines on each other. Or DD would be completely crippled after two salvos from Smolensk or other high volume HE thrower, as turrets and torp tubes are completely unprotected and rely on own hp and RNGesus blessing to exist.

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21 minutes ago, Captain_Campbell said:

I find the only incapacitations I notice are very rare things like the game where my richelieu lost both turrets in a single salvo.

Man I love that ship but dis is de worst haha :D Still you still have one crazy big torpedo (wit speed boost) to take someone wit ye :D

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Every time my Gearing goes out 'Torpedo tube destroyed'.. and I mean every time...

 

I have seen a JB lose both main turrets but tank four kills via secondaries.. I also gain more incapacitations in my Kitakaze than ever before...

 

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Guys, please. I posted it for example. Let's not analyze the ships themselves. It is frustrating when you lose turrets all the time. It is not a problem if it happens sometimes like with Detonations. It happens, cool. I can live with that. But the fact that each and every battle ...

 

Also the more concerning part is the DD torpedo tubes. If I lose a turret on a BB, okay 25 sec and it repaires and then 25 sec again and I can shoot. But when you lose torp tubes... It can be 2 minutes until it reloads! Or better yet you lose the only torp tube you have and then now what? (Sure you can pew pew but when you get hit in a DD you also lose a lot of health...)

 

So yes something was changed and not for the better.

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Turret incapacitations are seem to be more prominent recently yeah... at least that's my feeling, don't have any proof. I'd be really curious what's going on... 

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Complaining something about the most overpowered T5 battleship.

 

Onto reading the next thread...

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3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Compartmentalization idea isn't bad, but it would mean rebalancing game from ground up basically. And that time, according to spreadshiet, would be better spent on adding more premiums:cap_cool:

 

Also, RNG based saving throw is still needed, otherwise you'd end up with War Thunder, where people just keep sniping ammo magazines on each other. Or DD would be completely crippled after two salvos from Smolensk or other high volume HE thrower, as turrets and torp tubes are completely unprotected and rely on own hp and RNGesus blessing to exist.

 

 

Agree with that.

As I said. I would not want a Full out Sim anyways.

Just a bit more of that Juggernaut Feeling of Ships Toughing out Damage and Still Fighting even tough Half the Ship is Destroyed.

Because currently I just dont feel like it to be Honest.

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5 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

As you can see it is the same game. Within 10 minutes! I was shot by only 2 Gneisenaus. Every hit I received was an incapacitation. This is not bad luck. WG. Get your things together!

 

Okay, just played another game in Hood.

3 incapacitations plus a final dead turret.

 

All this within 2 games!

One issue here is, incapacitations aren't fires. It's not like a hit has just random chance to incapacitate, but if a module gets hit and heavily damaged, it might get incapacitated. If this happens once, that means that the enemy is capable of just punching through the turret armour and that it will obviously do again if it hits the turret again. And if the turret was damaged once and thus is low on hp, it will be more likely to get incapacitated yet again and eventually will just be outright destroyed.

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1 hour ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

One issue here is, incapacitations aren't fires. It's not like a hit has just random chance to incapacitate, but if a module gets hit and heavily damaged, it might get incapacitated. If this happens once, that means that the enemy is capable of just punching through the turret armour and that it will obviously do again if it hits the turret again. And if the turret was damaged once and thus is low on hp, it will be more likely to get incapacitated yet again and eventually will just be outright destroyed.

AFAIK when module takes damage, it gets incapacitated as indication of dice rolling "damage" instead "save"

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

AFAIK when module takes damage, it gets incapacitated as indication of dice rolling "damage" instead "save"

 

 

Yes, but the lower the hp the more likely it will be incapacitated and if an AP shell just goes through your turret armour once, obviously it can do so again, but this time your turret already had lowered hp, so it is even more likely to knock it out. Eventually, all hp is gone and it'll be destroyed. This is unlike a fire, as fires don't care how often the ship was on fire. Every roll is basically a new roll except if the section is actively burning already.

 

I quote:

Quote

Damage to a module can occur when a ship receives damage; the fewer surviving hit points a module has, the higher the chance of receiving critical damage. Modules that are already critically damaged that receive large additional amounts of damage are more likely to be destroyed.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Modules#Damage_to_Modules

 

Thus, getting disabled multiple times in a row isn't merely being unlucky, but with every hit that damages (and potentially incapacitates), further incapacitations grow more likely.

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18 minutes ago, VaranusKomodoensis said:

Anyone remember early Atlanta? You could measure match length by counting the remaining turrets.

RIght now Atlanta is just a memory. Nerfed to the ground.

In these circumstances I wouldn't dare to take it out. Would definitely lose all the turrets...

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10 hours ago, Humorpalanta said:

Every hit I received was an incapacitation

That´s why i don´t play Smaland anymore. It could be "only me" but every hit i get results in an incapacitated engine. I even specced out of engine room protection and took something else - it had no effect anyway. LS has to do it.

 

Plus, everything else gets wrecked too. If i find it i will post a screenshot here where i got everything wrecked on Smaland by a single HE-salvo. Engine, rudder, AA-guns (perma), main guns, torpedo launchers plus ofc a fire.

 

As mentioned, maybe it´s me or it will get fixed soon but currently i don´t play smoke-less destroyers, so i never brought it up nor reported it.

Edited by VIadoCro
fixed (the usual) typo. Twice AAARGH
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14 hours ago, VIadoCro said:

Plus, everything else gets wrecked too. If i find it i will post a screenshot here where i got everything wrecked on Smaland by a single HE-salvo. Engine, rudder, AA-guns (perma), main guns, torpedo launchers plus ofc a fire.

Really, DDs need an enhanced PT skill that lets you know if it's an Italian or British ship which is targeting you. SAP, of course, is a potential one-shot scenario, and British HE breaks more modules than anything going.  I would suspect your Smaland troubles are down to getting a good dose of that. 

 

The other thing about Incapacitations and Module Destruction is that it never seems to happen to CVs. No getting tapped with a rocket and hearing "Torpedo Bombers Destroyed!"...

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