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Bindolaf_Werebane

Nerf the Venezia?

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So, this is an issue I'm ambivalent about. I don't have a Venezia, but I will soon. Do I want it nerfed? Then, most Venezia I encounter, do absolutely zip to change the course of a game, they just sail at range and fire SAP salvos. On the other hand, a well played Venezia is a complete monster, with carry potential.

 

I would propose one of two nerfs - and no, nothing to her guns:

 

1. Give her more armor. This is the WG-buff-nerf way and could result in fewer overpens.

 

2. Go the Henri-way and nerf the rudder, making the Venezia less agile.

 

Either would work,I think. What do you think?

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You forgot to mention why do you think it needs a nerf. 

Lets wait with the nerfhammer until the 2 new soviet T10s arrive and completely trump the usage and stats of the Venezia... 

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i agree, as it is now it have too much firepower and abuses games mechanics

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6 minutes ago, kfa said:

You forgot to mention why do you think it needs a nerf. 

Lets wait with the nerfhammer until the 2 new soviet T10s arrive and completely trumps the usage and stats of the Venezia... 

that's one of the main problems of the game: new ships are added too fast, before old ship balance is finished

this way, ships that 2 years ago were average/above average, become outdated or bad for their rank in no time

when i finally got the Hind, years ago, i was happy cause it was considered a good and balanced cruiser for tier x

today, i doubt most people would recommend me the hind, over the venezia

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I also suggest to wait.

It is much too early. Too many experienced players play her.

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Venezia does not care about angling, so nerf the pen angles to german CA values.

Increase detectability and nerf the Rudder shift.

 

Also, scrap any plans to give ITA BBs SAP, cause that idea is CV levels of braindead.

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18 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I also suggest to wait.

It is much too early. Too many experienced players play her.

 

I have to agree with the Colonel - besides, can you imagine this season of CW with nerfed Venezias?  You need to consider the game as a whole, and right now, you have Kremlin, Stalingrad that are absolute beasts & two new T10 RU cruisers on the way that look rather strong too.  Don't lets jump on the one(?) good ship in the ITA tech tree yet - and please remember that Venezia's SAP can't pen all ships reliably, doesn't cause fires, its torps are situational at best and its AP isn't that great.

 

If anything WG should be looking at buffing some of the weaker ships - but considering WG couldn't balance a see-saw it's probably best they don't...

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1 minute ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Venezia does not care about angling, so nerf the pen angles to german CA values.

Increase detectability and nerf the Rudder shift.

 

Also, scrap any plans to give ITA BBs SAP, cause that idea is CV levels of braindead.

I think the issue is that SAP the way it is implemented is not great for the game.  It could have worked if it was a 3rd shell type (i.e. ITA ships would have gotten AP, HE & SAP) which would have meant that balancing would have been a lot easier without coming up with an abomination that just monsters DDs & cruisers.

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If anything it's speed of those SAP shells that makes kitting them next to impossible. But I'd wait. let me enjoy her for a while. WG will nerf her as they did with every other cruiser able to hurt Stalingrad.

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Well, I started to f grind for the Venezia, so wait.

When I have it no doubt it will be nurrrrffffd to the max. Usually happens. 

 

So all you have to do is wait until I have it. Shouldn't be long. :Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

1. Give her more armor. This is the WG-buff-nerf way and could result in fewer overpens.

 

2. Go the Henri-way and nerf the rudder, making the Venezia less agile.

 

Either would work,I think. What do you think?

1. She has monster armor, look at the armor viewer

 

2. She has crappy rudder unless build for it and henry dindnt have rudder nerf but acceleration nerf

 

No, it wouldnt SAP needs a nerf

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26 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said:

and please remember that Venezia's SAP can't pen all ships reliably, doesn't cause fires, its torps are situational at best and its AP isn't that great.

why would you even care for ap when sap does 8-15k dmg to a 20 degree angled cruiser?
Nerf rudder to the very least

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Venezia is stupid for the exact same reason as Smolensk is, only worse because Venezia is almost impossible to counter in most situations. But its not russian so people arent really complaining about it.

Venezia has absurd armor, its almost impossible to do damage to from range unless said ship continous to sail in a straight line, which they never do. Its also very low in the water which makes hitting it even worse. It also has a ridicolous turnradius which makes it even more difficult to land good hits on.

It has insane shellspeed and the SAP will chunk 10-15k off any cruiser at any angle, even Moskvas and Stalingrads.

To top that all off it also has smoke.

 

SAP needs to change, it should be more reliant on pen angles and have a higher tendency to bounce or shatter if the angle is too steep. It would make it possible to angle towards.

Venezia also needs a sever armor nerf, especially in the main belt. It shouldnt be that impossibly difficult to punish it if played badly.

Or, just nerf the range, a lot.

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17 minutes ago, Ouzo11 said:

why would you even care for ap when sap does 8-15k dmg to a 20 degree angled cruiser?
Nerf rudder to the very least

because it's not always cruisers that I'm shooting at?  If you saturate a Kremlin, good luck getting enough damage on it to sink it.  SAP is deeply flawed in its interpretation in game.

 

Do we really want 6x stalin + hak to be the only line up in CB?  Right now, Venezia's maneuvrability is really the only thing that can help save it vs a CV and you want to nerf that?

 

The biggest problem is that WG can't balance their own game so we end up with abominations or broken ships.  With Venezia, if you nerf it without adjusting it in other areas to compensate it will become a poor ship.  Full disclosure, I don't have the answer - I may have a few germs of ideas - but monkey-hammering it into the ground isn't a viable answer.

 

@Floofz Why is it a problem for the SAP to be able to chunk Stalin & Moskva?  They shouldn't be immune to damage surely?  Are you aware that Stalin has greater range than Venezia and very fast shells, plus special AP that can massively chunk a Venzia too...  Moskva also has good guns and can get the damage in.

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48 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

If anything it's speed of those SAP shells that makes kitting them next to impossible. But I'd wait. let me enjoy her for a while. WG will nerf her as they did with every other cruiser able to hurt Stalingrad.

How true.  Just wait until after this CB season to watch the nerfs roll in...

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Isn't a lot of this down to the improved angles on the SAP the Venezia gets? Lower tiers in the line do ok, but don't have the improved pen angles, so you can angle against them.

 

Have they nerfed the angles on the up and coming new Russian cruisers yet? Otherwise even Venezia SAP is going to look weak when these rail guns.

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2 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said:

 

@Floofz Why is it a problem for the SAP to be able to chunk Stalin & Moskva?  They shouldn't be immune to damage surely?  Are you aware that Stalin has greater range than Venezia and very fast shells, plus special AP that can massively chunk a Venzia too...  Moskva also has good guns and can get the damage in.

 

Because there is no counter to it? There is no skill. Its the same discussion with CVs. Stalingrad and Moskvas strengths are holding a position, that is why they have the icebreaker belt, so they cant be overmatched by BBs. Their weakpoint is high detection and a vulnerable citadel.

I am aware that Stalingrad has longer range, but no, in normal circumstances a Stalingrad cant do anything against a Venezia. You cant chunck a Venezia, you need him to be perfectly broadside and not turning at all, the slightest angle and youll bounce every shell. Considering Ive played only Stalingrad this CB season so far I feel like I have experience in this. But if Im wrong please show me where you chunck a Venezia from distance in a Stalingrad thats activly dodging.

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3 minutes ago, Floofz said:

Because there is no counter to it?

It is called angling.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

It is called angling.

 

You cant angle against a Venezias SAP since even in a Stalingrad it will go straight throu the nose, the deck and the superstructure.

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Just now, Floofz said:

 

You cant angle against a Venezias SAP since even in a Stalingrad it will go straight throu the nose, the deck and the superstructure.

You can. With these angles it is either an autoricochet or at least a ricochet chance instead of autopen. The profile of the angled supersctructure is much smaller than a broadside superstructure.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

You can. With these angles it is either an autoricochet or at least a ricochet chance instead of autopen. The profile of the angled supersctructure is much smaller than a broadside superstructure.

 

Yea well, it doesnt happen. As I said Ive played Stalingrad every single match so far in CB this season and I keep taking massive SAP damage from ANY angle, bow in, 20 degree angles, doesnt matter. 10-15k damage per salvo. If you face off against 2-3 Venezias then youre dead in seconds.

The best setup right now is 6 Venezias and one Haku.

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1 minute ago, Floofz said:

 

Yea well, it doesnt happen. As I said Ive played Stalingrad every single match so far in CB this season and I keep taking massive SAP damage from ANY angle, bow in, 20 degree angles, doesnt matter. 10-15k damage per salvo. If you face off against 2-3 Venezias then youre dead in seconds.

The best setup right now is 6 Venezias and one Haku.

Interesting that my Hindenburg manages that.

But when it does not matter to you, feel free to show broadside to her.

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Interesting that my Hindenburg manages that.

But when it does not matter to you, feel free to show broadside to her.

 

Show me then. Show me a replay where you bounce Venezia SAP.

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Rather than Needing a nerf the line just needs to go back and be done from scratch due entirely to SAP and other gimmicks.

 

SAP is useless in the low tiers and the ships of paper, the T10 SAP is monsterous and the ship is tanky.

 

There is terrible progression though the entire line...

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